Stompin at the Savoy Posted June 24 Posted June 24 17 minutes ago, jazzbo said: I have some of these on Columbia LP reissues in pretty good shape. . . they sound good, but in my system the cd versions have a more open, detailed sound. I like the King Jazz, JSP and Columbia box set versions best that I have. That's noteworthy. I'm never going collect vinyl again but sometimes wonder if I'm missing something. 🙂 Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted June 25 Posted June 25 (edited) 15 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said: Do you have the JSP cd's (or the Columbias)? It would be very interesting to hear how they compare to the various vinyl editions you have. No, I don't have any of these Hot Fives and Sevens etc. on CD, neither JSP nor others. Basically I am still satisfied with my CBS vinyl reissues. Especially when I compare them to other pre-1926 jazz recordings (acoustically recorded, that is!) reissued on vinyl (major or collector labels). Some of these can really be a daunting task to listen to (in fact, more something for "early jazz" hardcore nerds, with all their rhythm section clattering and front line shrillness that you need to "listen through" to really dig the music itself). Sometimes you get strange listening experiences with these early recordings. I remember listening to a 1920s recording by Duke Elington on a 70s compilation of 20s jazz on the Sunbeam label. But compared to the corresponding track on Vol. 1 of the Duke Ellington series on the CBS twofers the Sunbeam pressing sounded fuller, richer and clearer on my system. Odd ... I'd have expected the CBS reissue (that somehow sounded flatter to me) to be better and the recordings on small collector labels such as Sunbeam to be hit and miss fidelitywise. One reason of my question now was to find out a bit more exactly where I stand overall with theses CBS's and then to see if there are prospects that maybe the Archeophone reissues tower that sky-high above earlier CDs (that in turn might be a shade better than the vinyls) so that they MAY be a way to go if I were to spring for CDs after all. As for JSPs, I have none of the Armstrong reissues but quite a few of their other box sets. But I've limited my purchases mostly to contents that are nearly impossible to get elsewhere (at all or at least at a decent price), i.e. Cajun, pre-war country and blues and early post-war Jump Blues. But in general I must say I am not extremely impressed with their reissues of 20s recordings. I appreciate them a lot for the rare music they make available but very often they "do sound their age". (And I'm not talking only about Paramounts ) Edited June 25 by Big Beat Steve Quote
miles65 Posted July 7 Posted July 7 (edited) On 6/25/2026 at 10:11 AM, Big Beat Steve said: As for JSPs, I have none of the Armstrong reissues but quite a few of their other box sets. But I've limited my purchases mostly to contents that are nearly impossible to get elsewhere (at all or at least at a decent price), i.e. Cajun, pre-war country and blues and early post-war Jump Blues. But in general I must say I am not extremely impressed with their reissues of 20s recordings. I appreciate them a lot for the rare music they make available but very often they "do sound their age". (And I'm not talking only about Paramounts ) The sound on Armstrong sets was done by John R.T. Davies. Of course new technology might surpass his efforts. When I play the hot 5/7 I go to this set. Edited July 7 by miles65 typo Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted July 8 Posted July 8 Of course John R.T. Davies is synonymous with quality. But as you say - latest technologies may have surpassed his painstaking efforts. For the time being I'll stick with the CBS vinyls for the Hot 5/7. Given the huge variety of CD box sets existing now we'll see at a later date if I'll go for one of these too. Quote
jazzbo Posted July 8 Posted July 8 Man, with the Archaeophone Oliver set, the upcoming Archaeophone Chicago set and this New York City set some of the most important Armstrong material will see new serious annotation and renovated sound. A great time for jazz fans! Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted July 8 Posted July 8 42 minutes ago, jazzbo said: Man, with the Archaeophone Oliver set, the upcoming Archaeophone Chicago set and this New York City set some of the most important Armstrong material will see new serious annotation and renovated sound. A great time for jazz fans! In case your comment was meant as a reply to my "moldy vinyl fig" post, I am aware of these. And may eventually go for one of these or other relatively recent ones. But money can only be spent once (as with anyone's record collecting budget), and I don't think you'd really want to hear about other potential purchases of interest here at my end. (Which may be a matter of pointless scrambling for obscurities to you but are a matter of yet further fleshing out the skeleton of the big and biggest names of jazz to me. ) Quote
jazzbo Posted July 8 Posted July 8 (edited) Was not meant as a reply to you but a general appreciation of the excellent opportunity offered by the Oliver set and forthcoming sets potentially for many of us Armstrong collectors. Your situation is yours. I really shouldn't dip into these again, but my inclinations are my own, foolish enough but that's how I am. In my life now incremental improvements in sonic playback are noticed, and appreciated on material I cherish. Edited July 8 by jazzbo Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted July 8 Posted July 8 Oh, I understand your approach. And I don't disregard others' "sonic upgrade" efforts as lightly anymore as I may have in the past. There have been opportunities too good to pass up that have made me re-purchase too. But in general there just is sooo much jazz and jazz-related music out there that still begs to be discovered or rediscovered when a reissue (or very belated first release) finally pops up at long last, and since you just cannot have it all you have to make choices ... Quote
jazzbo Posted July 8 Posted July 8 (edited) I really should take that approach. Instead I just attempt to have it all. When I had more disposable income I seriously upgraded my audio playback. And as I result I hear more than ever before, and for really important material I can't pass up the chance to experience improvement. This is one of those times, and I make the choice. Anyone who has not bought this material many times before has a great opportunity ahead to experience it in these sets. Edited July 8 by jazzbo Quote
mikeweil Posted July 8 Posted July 8 2 hours ago, jazzbo said: I really should take that approach. Instead I just attempt to have it all. That's the real challenge! Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted July 8 Posted July 8 It depends on what kind of "attempt to have it all" it is. "All" of the reissues of certain (usually major) artists or items (that you would not hesitate upgrading several times over) or "all" in the sense of "a representative cross-section of (almost) all the music or artists that are out there", even covering niches far off the beaten tracks of the "usual suspects". Both can be just as detrimental to your pocketbook. Quote
John L Posted July 8 Posted July 8 On 6/24/2026 at 2:09 PM, jazzbo said: I have some of these on Columbia LP reissues in pretty good shape. . . they sound good, but in my system the cd versions have a more open, detailed sound. I like the King Jazz, JSP and Columbia box set versions best that I have. I don't have the King Jazz Armstrong, but I have the new Columbia box, the JSP box, and the Columbia LP reissues on CD. I agree that the new Columbia set and the JSP box are sonically superior to the earlier Columbia LP reissues that sound muffled by comparison. But the Columbia LP CD reissues still contain some great and very different alternate tracks that I have still never seen released anywhere else. The JSP and new Columbia sets also contain somewhat different selections of music. It would be nice to have all of it released in one place in superior sound. Quote
jazzbo Posted July 8 Posted July 8 I have all the King Jazz and they sound pretty good . . . The ones with the singers and Clarence Williams etc. still contain material I don't really have in as good sound elsewhere. I'm looking forward to these new sets for comparisons and . . . the NOTES. I think the notes will be excellent. Quote
medjuck Posted July 8 Posted July 8 What's the "new Columbia set"? 1 hour ago, Big Beat Steve said: It depends on what kind of "attempt to have it all" it is. "All" of the reissues of certain (usually major) artists or items (that you would not hesitate upgrading several times over) or "all" in the sense of "a representative cross-section of (almost) all the music or artists that are out there", even covering niches far off the beaten tracks of the "usual suspects". Both can be just as detrimental to your pocketbook. I'm embarrassed by the number of different releases I have of the 1940-42 Ellington band. Always looking for better sound. Quote
AllenLowe Posted July 8 Posted July 8 (edited) On 6/24/2026 at 3:00 PM, jazzbo said: Ricky Riccardi's thoughts on this set, thanks to an original post in this forum by King Ubu: Q: Is it worth replacing Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, the original Columbia CD Vols 1-???, the JSP Hot 5s/7s etc with this set? For those of us who have been gathering these things for a long time, can you make a case for this particular issue? RR: I'm proud of my little liner note offerings but I'm going to be honest: if you have everything you mentioned, there's no need for this set. It's really aimed for those who have heard a few samplers and want to get it all, the Hot Fives, Sevens, Hines stuff, OKeh big bands, Victor recordings, etc. A lot of that 1929-1933 has been out of print in the US for much of this century so it's nice to have them back. Having said that, I just started listening and my original fears seem to be true: every disc is a straight rip of Sony's original releases from the late 80s and early 90s. To my ears, that's not a bad thing for most of the set but just skipping around, it appears that every single one of the 1925 and 1926 Hot Fives are pitched a half-step low! That is NOT a good thing. Man, I wish I heard this set before they produced it; maybe I could have warned them! They're going to get KILLED by the audiophiles for this... ... for this new set, they skipped the 2000 transfers entirely (a little noisy but in the correct keys!) and went back to the original issues from the late 80s. The transfers are clean thanks to a lot of processing but the lack of pitch correction was embarrassing then and even worse now. Having said that, it's really the first two discs. I think the other 8 sound great and for anyone that doesn't have this music, it's a good bargain set. Even if you have the Hot Fives but kit much else, getting the 1927-1933 material on 8 discs for $65 ain't bad. ... when life returns to normal after the move and power outages, I'll do a long blog with A-B comparisons of a handful of the Hot Fives as released over t last 20 years. Columbia did a helluva lot of reissues in the early CD days (all those "Jazz Masterpieces" with the blue borders). Now they're just repackaging them with the same inferior sound... So they did nothing except put old discs in new sleeves. Again, I hope people enjoy my notes and I'll recommend it to newbies but I know this set is going to make people angry...and I hope they don't take it out on me! (The new Satchmo at Symphony Hall, well, that was my baby from start to finish so any problems with that, yes, direct them to me!) so, can we assume Ricky mentioned this problem in his liner notes? I would have a problem with that otherwise. Seems unethical. Edited July 8 by AllenLowe Quote
jazzbo Posted July 8 Posted July 8 I think John was referring to this one, not exactly new these days: Quote
jazzbo Posted July 8 Posted July 8 22 minutes ago, AllenLowe said: so, can we assume Ricky mentioned this problem in his liner notes? I would have a problem with that. Seems unethical. I don't have the notes handy but I would assume that he did not. But I shouldn't assume, you know what happens. Quote
AllenLowe Posted July 8 Posted July 8 34 minutes ago, jazzbo said: I don't have the notes handy but I would assume that he did not. But I shouldn't assume, you know what happens. I would be very surprised; I don't think any record company would let the writer do that. Quote
Clunky Posted July 8 Posted July 8 I've a fair few of these Armstrong sides as 78s - mainly British issues (Parlophone) from masters rather than dubs. These can sound excellent but are pretty tedious to plain a regular basis. The JSP set has been more than acceptable for many years. I'll definitely be looking out for the views on this set when it comes out. Quote
miles65 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 1 hour ago, medjuck said: BTW Anyone have a list of the "sideman tracks"? This is my estimate of what could be the track listing. It is based on what I found on the internet. Not on information from Archeophone. So an educated guess at best. Bertha "Chippie" Hill November 9, 1925, Chicago, Illinois Low Land Blues (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9456-A] -- OKeh 8273 Kid Man Blues (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9457-A] -- OKeh 8273 Blanche Calloway November 9, 1925, Chicago, Illinois Lazy Woman's Blues (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9458-A] -- Okeh 8279 Lonesome Lovesick Blues (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9459-A] -- Okeh 8279 Hociel Thomas Acc. By Louis Armstrong's Jazz Four November 11, 1925, Gambler's Dream (Thomas) [master 9471-A] -- OKeh 8289 Sunshine Baby (Thomas) [master 9472-A] -- Okeh 8326 Adam And Eve Had The Blues (Thomas) [master 9473-A] -- Okeh 8358 Put It Where I Can Get It (Thomas) [master 9474-A] -- Okeh 8358 Washwoman Blues (Thomas; Bollinger) [master 9475-A] -- Okeh 8389 I've Stopped My Man (Thomas) [master 9476-A] -- Okeh 8326 Louis Armstrong And His Hot Five November 12, 1925, Chicago, Illinois My Heart (Hardin, Lil) [master 9484-A] -- OKeh 8320 Yes! I'm In The Barrel (Armstrong, Louis) [master 9485-A] -- OKeh 8261 Gut Bucket Blues (Armstrong, Louis) [master 9486-A] -- OKeh 8261 Louis Armstrong And His Hot Five February 22, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Come Back, Sweet Papa (Barbarin; Russell) [master 9503-A] -- OKeh 8318 Bertha "Chippie" Hill February 23-24, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Lonesome, All Alone And Blue (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9509-A] -- OKeh 8339 Trouble In Mind (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9510-A] -- OKeh 8312 A Georgia Man (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9511-A] -- OKeh 8312 Baby Mack February 23, 1926, Chicago, Illinois You've Got To Go Home On Time (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9512-A] -- Okeh 8313 What Kind O' Man Is That? (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9513-A] -- Okeh 8313 Hociel Thomas February 24, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Deep Water Blues (Thomas) [master 9519-A] -- OKeh 8297 G'wan, I Told You (Blair; Lethwick) [master 9520-A] -- Okeh 8346 Listen To Ma (Thomas) [master 9521-A] -- Okeh 8346 Lonesome Hours (Thomas) [master 9522-A] -- Okeh 8297 Louis Armstrong And His Hot Five February 26, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Georgia Grind (Williams, A.) [master 9533-A] -- OKeh 8318 Heebie Jeebies (Atkins, B.) [master 9534-A] -- OKeh 8300 Cornet Chop Suey (Armstrong, Louis) [master 9535-A] -- OKeh 8320 Oriental Strut (St. Cyr, Johnny) [master 9536-A] -- OKeh 8299 You're Next (Armstrong, Louis) [master 9537-A] -- OKeh 8299 Muskrat Ramble (Ory, Edward; Gilbert, Roy) [master 9538-A] -- OKeh 8300 Sippie Wallace March 1-3, 1926, Chicago, Illinois A Jealous Woman Like Me (Thomas, Hersal) [master 9546-A] -- OKeh 8301 Special Delivery Blues (Wallace, Sippie) [master 9547-A] -- OKeh 8328 Jack O'diamond Blues (Wallace, Sippie) [master 9548-A] -- OKeh 8328 Sippie Wallace March 3, 1926, Chicago, Illinois The Mail Train Blues (Blair; Lethwick) [master 9559-A] -- OKeh 8345 I Feel Good (Thomas, Hersal) [master 9560-A] -- OKeh 8345 A Man For Every Day Of The Week (Thomas, Hersal) [master 9561-A] -- OKeh 8301 Erskine Tate's Vendrome Orchestra May 28, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Static Strut (Yellen, Jack; Wall, Phil) [master C336] -- Vocalion 1027 Stomp Off, Let's Go (Schoebel, Elmer) [master C337] -- Vocalion 1027 Stomp Off, Let's Go (Schoebel, Elmer) [master C338] -- Vocalion 1027 Lil's Hot Shots May 28, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Georgia Bo Bo (Trent, Jo; Waller, Thomas) [master C340] -- Vocalion 1037 Drop That Sack (Armstrong, Louis) [master C341] -- Vocalion 1037 Drop That Sack (Armstrong, Louis) [master C342] -- Vocalion 1037 Nolan Welsh June 16, 1926, Chicago, Illinois The Bridwell Blues (Welsh, Nolan; Jones, Richard) [master 9727-A] -- OKeh 8372 St. Peter Blues (Welsh, Nolan; Jones, Richard) [master 9728-A] -- OKeh 8372 Louis Armstrong and His Hot Five June 16, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Don't Forget To Mess Around (Barbarin, P.; Armstrong, Louis) [master 9729-A] -- OKeh 8343 I'm Gonna Gitcha (Hardin, Lil) [master 9730-A] -- OKeh 8343 Droppin' Shucks (Hardin, Lil) [master 9731-A] -- OKeh 8357 Who'sit (Jones) [master 9732-A] -- OKeh 8357 Butterbeans and Susie June 18, 1926, Chicago, Illinois He Likes It Slow (Overstreet) [master 9750-A] -- OKeh 8355 Louis Armstrong and His Hot Five June 23, 1926, Chicago, Illinois King Of The Zulus (Hardin, Lil) [master 9776-A] -- OKeh 8396 Big Fat Ma And Skinny Pa (Jones, R.M.) [master 9777-A] -- OKeh 8379 Lonesome Blues (Hardin, Lil) [master 9778-A] -- OKeh 8396 Sweet Little Papa (Ory, Edward) [master 9779-A] -- OKeh 8379 Louis Armstrong and His Hot Five November 16, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Jazz Lips (Hardin, Lil; Armstrong, Louis; Robbin, S.) [master 9890-A] -- OKeh 8436 Skid-Dat-De-Dat (Hardin, Lil) [master 9891-A] -- OKeh 8436 Louis Armstrong and His Hot Five November 16, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Big Butter And Egg Man (Venable, P.; Armstrong, Louis) [master 9892-A] -- OKeh 8423 Sunset Cafe Stomp (Venable, P.; Armstrong, Louis) [master 9893-A] -- OKeh 8423 Bertha "Chippie" Hill November 23-26, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Pleadin' For The Blues (Hill, Bertha; Jones, Richard M.) [master 9949-A] -- OKeh 8420 Pratt City Blues (Hill, Bertha; Jones, Richard M.) [master 9950-A] -- OKeh 8420 Mess, Katie, Mess (Kapp; Eller) [master 9951-A] -- OKeh 8437 Bertha "Chippie" Hill November 26, 1926, Chicago, Illinois Lovesick Blues (Mills; Friend) [master 9971-A] -- OKeh 8453 Lonesome Weary Blues (Jones, Richard M.) [master 9972-A] -- OKeh 8453 Louis Armstrong and His Hot Five November 27, 1926, Chicago, Illinois You Made Me Love You (Venable, P.; Armstrong, Louis) [master 9980-A] -- OKeh 8447 Irish Black Bottom (Venable, P.; Armstrong, Louis) [master 9981-A] -- OKeh 8447 Quote
dicky Posted July 9 Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Chuck Nessa said: Any opinions on this box from 2008? Prefer it to the JSP set. More air & presence without sounding harsh. Listening on approx $30k of equipment btw DAC, amp & speakers FWIW. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted July 9 Posted July 9 1 hour ago, dicky said: Prefer it to the JSP set. More air & presence without sounding harsh. Listening on approx $30k of equipment btw DAC, amp & speakers FWIW. Me too. Quote
medjuck Posted July 9 Posted July 9 2 hours ago, dicky said: Prefer it to the JSP set. More air & presence without sounding harsh. Listening on approx $30k of equipment btw DAC, amp & speakers FWIW. How doe it compare to the earlier "long box" Columbia set? Or is it the same? Quote
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