Herbie Nichols

[Late]

The first disc of the Nichols Mosaic has been in heavy rotation here lately. That May 6 (1955) session, Nichols' first for Blue Note — what a beauty! It then dawned on me that I don't know the original track order that Herbie and Alfred originally picked out for the first two volumes of The Prophetic Herbie Nichols. The Mosaic booklet, in this case, lists the tunes in recording order, but I can't exactly tell if this order was also the 10" vinyl order.

I'm guessing that the JRVG's of The Prophetic Herbie Nichols will have the original track order. Would someone mind listing the original track order, or what the JRVG's have as a track order? Thanks!

And, I have to ask , do the JRVG's likely contain "premium" sonics? I've never heard the Blue Note box, always having stuck with the Mosaic and two TOCJ's, and now wonder (liking this music so much) if I should hunt out those two (short, I'm guessing) JRVG's. (Why can't they be on one U.S. RVG?)

__________________________

A few other interesting notes:

• Alfred and Herbie originally planned to have five volumes of The Prophetic Herbie Nichols, all of them 10" records. The transition from 10" vinyl to 12" obviated this plan, however, but the listening audience at that time (and I can only wonder in awe at who was digging Herbie in 1955/56) missed out on quite a few tunes as a result.

• This was discussed some time ago, but Bethlehem — somewhere, somehow — has additional tape of Herbie's Love, Gloom, Cash, Love session ... though it's certainly not out of the question that it's now lost (let's hope not!). The additional tunes are/were:

"Riff Primitif"

"Debra's Tango"

"Neighborhood Journey"

"Blip"

"The Happenings"

"Dolly"

I want to hear them!

[jazzbo]

I remember reading that additional songs on tape are lost for the Bethlehem.

The JRVGs sound pretty darned good. . . once you correct them for polarity. (I believe oh yes I believe in the polarity problem). Different from the Mosiac, but the Mosaic sounds really good too. . . in a different way. No reason not to just stick with what you have Laton!

It would take me hours, maybe a day or more to get to my copies to list content, so here's hoping someone beats me to it!

[J.A.W.]

According to AMG:

The Prophetic Herbie Nichols, Vol.1

1. Dance Line (Nichols)

2. Step Tempest (Nichols)

3. The Third World (Nichols)

4. Blue Chopsticks (Nichols)

5. Double Exposure (Nichols)

6. Cro-Magnon Nights (Nichols)

The Prophetic Herbie Nichols, Vol.2

1. Brass Rings (Nichols)

2. Crisp Day (Nichols)

3. 2300 Skiddoo (Nichols)

4. Amoeba's Dance (Nichols)

5. It Didn't Happen (Nichols)

6. Shuffle Montgomery (Nichols)

[couw]

according to this site

The Prophetic Herbie Nichols Vol.1

1. The Third World

2. Step Tempest

3. Dance Line

4. Blue Chopsticks

5. Double Exposure

6. Cro-Magnon Nights

The Prophetic Herbie Nichols Vol.2

1. Amoeba's Dance

2. Crisp Day

3. 2300 Skiddoo

4. It Didn't Happen

5. Shuffle Montgomery

6. Brass Rings

looks like someone needs to dig this out of wherever they have it tucked away.

[Late]

Thanks, guys! (Why do I always forget to check AMG on these things?) Strange, though, that Ray Mizutani's site lists a different order.

You're probably right, Lon, about sticking with what I already have. The Mosaic really does sound pretty good — which is fairly amazing, considering such an early ('83) tape transfer. The booklet, of course, is priceless. Oh if those Bohemia solo intermission sets were only recorded!

[J.A.W.]

according to this site

The Prophetic Herbie Nichols Vol.1

1. The Third World

2. Step Tempest

3. Dance Line

4. Blue Chopsticks

5. Double Exposure

6. Cro-Magnon Nights

The Prophetic Herbie Nichols Vol.2

1. Amoeba's Dance

2. Crisp Day

3. 2300 Skiddoo

4. It Didn't Happen

5. Shuffle Montgomery

6. Brass Rings

looks like someone needs to dig this out of wherever they have it tucked away.

Ray Mizutani (Mundo) is probably right.

[brownie]

And, I have to ask , do the JRVG's likely contain "premium" sonics? I've never heard the Blue Note box, always having stuck with the Mosaic and two TOCJ's, and now wonder (liking this music so much) if I should hunt out those two (short, I'm guessing) JRVG's. (Why can't they be on one U.S. RVG?)

Blue Note Japan (King label) released the two Herbie Nichols 10-inch sessions on one LP (K18P-9272) that was part of the Blue Note Masterpiece series. That LP came out in 1983 a few years before the Mosaic set. With the best sound up till then on these piano tracks.

[Guest ariceffron]

????: DID HERBIE NICOLS DEVLOP HIS STYLE ALONGSIDE SEPARATLY FROM MONK OR WAS MONK A INFL. ON HIM OR VICE VERSA,. ETC??

[couw]

yes

[J.A.W.]

Sure, no doubt about it.

[Rooster_Ties]

absolutely.

[JSngry]

????: DID HERBIE NICOLS DEVLOP HIS STYLE ALONGSIDE SEPARATLY FROM MONK OR WAS MONK A INFL. ON HIM OR VICE VERSA,. ETC??

Monk was older, and was already playing. Nichols heard him and was mightily impressed from the beginning (one of the earliest mentions of Monk in print is a Nichols-penned article), so whatever influence there was would have been of Monk on Herbie.

[Larry Kart]

Don't have it to hand, but I recall that Nichols' brief article on Monk (from '46 or '47?) makes it clear that while Nichols admired Monk's music, he saw/heard things rather differently, and I would say that his own music backs that up. BTW, the tone of the article, as I recall, is interesting--just one musician (functioning as a journalist) talking about another, ample respect but little or no sense of awe, and in the background that sense of "I would do it/am doing it differently," though within broad agreement about what the "it" that was to be done was.

[mikeweil]

Agreed - influence never works one-directional. And it may not be overtly musical.