McCoy Tyner's Milestone sessions

[John Tapscott]

It would have been the summer of '74 . On a Friday night I heard a track from "Enlightenment" on Ted O'Reilly's "Jazz Scene" radio show. One Friday night a month his program was devoted to new releases. It knocked me out so much that I went to downtown Toronto the next day and bought a copy (either at Sam's or A&A).

Incredibly, a few weeks later, McCoy's "Atlantis" quartet played at the University of Toronto Convocation Hall and I eagerly attended. The sound was not great but I enjoyed the concert. 

I also bought a copy of "Atlantis" when it came out, and then most of McCoy's Milestone LP's over the next few years. Since all my LP's, (save 100) have been sold, I don't have any of them anymore, though I do have "Enlightenment" and "Atlantis" on CD. I still enjoy them, but perhaps not as much now as when I first heard them.    

Edited August 30, 2023 by John Tapscott

[HutchFan]

On 8/29/2023 at 12:10 PM, Milestones said:

I was not initially that big a fan of McCoy in piano trio format, though I did have the ones on Milestone (Trident, Supertrios) early on and always enjoyed them.  There was quite a bit of trio work on Impulse (some of it excellent), and the trio became a much bigger factor in the post-Milestone period.  Of these later trio albums, I find Remembering John (and we know who that is) to be an absolute classic.

 

If I were focusing on Tyner's trios during his Milestone period, I'd grab these first:

and

Both were recorded at the same 1978 concert in Tokyo -- with Ron Carter and Tony Williams. 

 

5 minutes ago, John Tapscott said:

It would have been the summer of '74 . On a Friday night I heard a track from "Enlightenment" on Ted O'Reilly's "Jazz Scene" radio show. One Friday night a month his program was devoted to new releases. It knocked me out so much that I went to downtown Toronto the next day and bought a copy (either at Sam's or A&A).

Incredibly, a few weeks later, McCoy's "Atlantis" quartet played at the University of Toronto Convocation Hall and I eagerly attended. The sound was not great but I enjoyed the concert. 

I wish I could have seen McCoy back then.

I saw him once -- about 15 years ago -- in a trio with Stanley Clarke and Eric Gravatt.  It was great, but I would've loved to see/hear him with a larger ensemble.

 

[Teasing the Korean]

I have 7 McCoy Tyner albums on Milestone, but I don't have Sahara.  Is this considered to be the best of the bunch?

[mikeweil]

It was a Milestone as it established him as the spiritual and energetical torchbearer in the Coltrane tradition. The majority of his last Blue Note sessions were still unissued at the time, so when he re-emerged with this power quartet, it was with a bang! If I were you, I would get me a copy.

[HutchFan]

54 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I have 7 McCoy Tyner albums on Milestone, but I don't have Sahara.  Is this considered to be the best of the bunch?

I wouldn't call it his "best" -- but Sahara was definitely Tyner's breakout album.  In that regard, Sahara is arguably his most important.  It's a sort of watershed point in his discography.

Sahara also demonstrated that Tyner's "all-acoustic" group could compete with electric bands -- both jazz and rock -- in terms of sheer MAGNITUDE and FORCE.  So there's some muscle-flexing involved that (to my ears) diminished as the 1970s progressed. This is a generality, of course; all of the albums weren't cranked to "11" -- but many were.  (I think this is what @JSngry was talking about when he mentioned critics who described Tyner as a "pentatonic Oscar Peterson.")

OTOH, I should note that this type of thinking is heresy to many McCoy fans, particularly those who heard this music in the early-70s as it was initially released.  "Full blast" albums Sahara and Enlightenment are the PINNACLE for many people.

However, I'm not old enough to have heard them in real-time as they were released.  I've only heard the music retrospectively and out-of-sequence.  And I've discovered that I prefer the stuff that has a bit more air in it, that breathes a little.  For the most part*, the early stuff ain't that.

 

* An exception that proves the rule: I think Sama Layuca (1974) is one of McCoy's best -- because it ebbs and flows. Bobby Hutcherson's soulful presence dials things back (a little); his voice adds some chill to the proceedings. Unlike Sahara (and other albums like Enlightenment or Atlantis), Sama Layuca strikes me as being musically balanced.  It's not triple-fortissimo all the time.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by HutchFan

[Teasing the Korean]

25 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

It was a Milestone as it established him as the spiritual and energetical torchbearer in the Coltrane tradition. The majority of his last Blue Note sessions were still unissued at the time, so when he re-emerged with this power quartet, it was with a bang! If I were you, I would get me a copy.

Thanks!  I'll keep an eye out for it.

[Rabshakeh]

I hadn't realized that Sahara was such an important point for Tyner. It is probably the jazz record I loved the most as a younger jazz fan. I had assumed that his career was fairly steady, with the Blue Notes slightly more prominent than the Milestones, and that my enjoyment of Sahara was just a personal thing.

[felser]

14 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

OTOH, I should note that this type of thinking is heresy to many McCoy fans, particularly those who heard this music in the early-70s as it was initially released.  "Full blast" albums Sahara and Enlightenment are the PINNACLE for many people.

However, I'm not old enough to have heard them in real-time.  I've only heard the music retrospectively and out-of-sequence.

 

That's where I come down, those two plus Expansions and Extensions on BN are it for me, much as I love many of the other titles.  FWIW, I did experience the Milestones in real time, though not the BN's (but caught up with those ASAP).  Sahara was absolutely stunning in 1972, nothing prepared me for it.

[HutchFan]

26 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

I hadn't realized that Sahara was such an important point for Tyner. It is probably the jazz record I loved the most as a younger jazz fan. I had assumed that his career was fairly steady, with the Blue Notes slightly more prominent than the Milestones, and that my enjoyment of Sahara was just a personal thing.

Again, I wasn't there.  But my understanding is that McCoy was sort of in limbo after being dropped by Blue Note.  So the success of Sahara was a big surprise, and it represented a turning point in his career.

 

EDIT
I'm trying to remember where I learned/read this, but I can't.  Maybe an interview with McCoy?  Maybe elsewhere on this forum?  I dunno.  . . . I think this just reinforces the notion (discussed earlier in this thread) that we need a Tyner biography.  I wish I could just pull the book from the shelf and quote chapter-and-verse.  

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by HutchFan

[Teasing the Korean]

My first McCoy Tyner album under his own name was Expansions on Blue Note.  I was in high school.  I remember how much I loved the opening track "Vision."  I got the Milestone albums only after I had returned to jazz, after a fairly lengthy period of not being able to listen to it.   

[felser]

1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

after I had returned to jazz, after a fairly lengthy period of not being able to listen to it.   

What was the backstory there?

[Teasing the Korean]

5 minutes ago, felser said:

What was the backstory there?

Discussed in the "University Jazz Program"  thread, if you can find it.  Probably in the "musicians" sub-forum.  I had a bad college experience and couldn't listen to jazz for several years.  I came back to jazz through Sinatra, Ella, and other singers of the Great American Songbook.  I've continued listening to and loving jazz through the decades, so this was a one-time aberration. 

Here you go: 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Teasing the Korean

[mhatta]

I heard from an old guy that when Sahara came out in 1972, there were lines at record stores in Japan and it literally sold like hotcakes. Personally, I don't find Sahara that appealing (I prefer the next Song For My Lady), but maybe it was something in zeitgeist. However, it seems that Fly With The Wind was rather the deciding factor in Tyner's popularity.

[Peter Friedman]

Just thought a minority opinion might be appropriate.

I liked McCoy's Impulse and Blue Note recordings. His Milestone albums that I have heard were not to my taste. As Mike  said early in this thread, McCoy's playing is often "overpowering".

In fact only a very few recordings by McCoy after about 1972 do much for me. A few exceptions that come to mind are his quartet date with Joe Henderson , and his duo album with Bobby Hutcherson and neither of them are on Milestone.

 

[mjzee]

Wow, I can't believe this thread's been around for 20 years.  I like this perhaps atypical McCoy Milestone album:

 

It's best on vinyl, because each side is with a different guest: Freddie Hubbard, John Abercrombie, Bobby Hutcherson, and Arthur Blythe.  Each brings a different mood to the basic trio (Tyner, McBee, Foster).  It's cool hearing Blythe, although his side consists only of standards.  And I love the John Abercrombie side: he makes the trio veer close to rock, yet also makes the group sound a little airier.  Worth seeking out.

 

[Gheorghe]

22 hours ago, sidewinder said:

I was banished to listening to it headphones only !

Oh, that´s much harder to enjoy but sometimes it doesn´t work otherwise, especially when you live in a flat and have to listen by headphones due to the neighbours.

But my parents had a house and I had the first floor for me alone after my sister married and got her own place.

 Well, a lotta schoolmates came to my place so that we learn together for the examenes, So we did that stuff on afternoon and then the jazz-party started. 

5 hours ago, mjzee said:

Wow, I can't believe this thread's been around for 20 years.  I like this perhaps atypical McCoy Milestone album:

 

It's best on vinyl, because each side is with a different guest: Freddie Hubbard, John Abercrombie, Bobby Hutcherson, and Arthur Blythe.  Each brings a different mood to the basic trio (Tyner, McBee, Foster).  It's cool hearing Blythe, although his side consists only of standards.  And I love the John Abercrombie side: he makes the trio veer close to rock, yet also makes the group sound a little airier.  Worth seeking out.

 

It is one of my favourites, but with the exception of the Abercrombie side as much as I remember. This may be my fault, but somehow the music on that side bored me. I think I liked most the Freddie Hubbard side, but very very much also the Hutcherson and the Blythe. 
A special bonus is the drums of Al Foster, really one of my very favourite drummers. 

[Rabshakeh]

6 hours ago, mjzee said:

Wow, I can't believe this thread's been around for 20 years.  I like this perhaps atypical McCoy Milestone album:

 

It's best on vinyl, because each side is with a different guest: Freddie Hubbard, John Abercrombie, Bobby Hutcherson, and Arthur Blythe.  Each brings a different mood to the basic trio (Tyner, McBee, Foster).  It's cool hearing Blythe, although his side consists only of standards.  And I love the John Abercrombie side: he makes the trio veer close to rock, yet also makes the group sound a little airier.  Worth seeking out.

 

This is a good one. Abercrombie on electric mandolin.

[Milestones]

I pretty much find that you can't go wrong with Tyner.  I have the majority of his work, and he is one of the most well-represented artists in my collection--both in pure numbers and in high percentage of his total output.

I love, love, love The Real McCoy and Expansions, and I love Tender Moments (all on BN).

McCoy Tyner's stature is such that he deserves a full biography.

 

 

 

 

[felser]

I don't know the sales figures, but eight of Tyner's Milestone albums charted on the Billboard Top 200 albums between 1975-1979.  Together got as high as #66 and stayed on the charts 11 weeks.  Fly With The Wind also charted for 11 weeks.  By comparison, none of Sonny Rollins' albums on Milestone (or any other label) ever hit those charts.  Atlantis even charted, his first album to do so, which is stunning to me.

[Guy Berger]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:12 AM, HutchFan said:

I wouldn't call it his "best" -- but Sahara was definitely Tyner's breakout album.  In that regard, Sahara is arguably his most important.  It's a sort of watershed point in his discography.

Sahara also demonstrated that Tyner's "all-acoustic" group could compete with electric bands -- both jazz and rock -- in terms of sheer MAGNITUDE and FORCE.  So there's some muscle-flexing involved that (to my ears) diminished as the 1970s progressed. This is a generality, of course; all of the albums weren't cranked to "11" -- but many were.  (I think this is what @JSngry was talking about when he mentioned critics who described Tyner as a "pentatonic Oscar Peterson.")

OTOH, I should note that this type of thinking is heresy to many McCoy fans, particularly those who heard this music in the early-70s as it was initially released.  "Full blast" albums Sahara and Enlightenment are the PINNACLE for many people.

However, I'm not old enough to have heard them in real-time as they were released.  I've only heard the music retrospectively and out-of-sequence.  And I've discovered that I prefer the stuff that has a bit more air in it, that breathes a little.  For the most part*, the early stuff ain't that.

 

* An exception that proves the rule: I think Sama Layuca (1974) is one of McCoy's best -- because it ebbs and flows. Bobby Hutcherson's soulful presence dials things back (a little); his voice adds some chill to the proceedings. Unlike Sahara (and other albums like Enlightenment or Atlantis), Sama Layuca strikes me as being musically balanced.  It's not triple-fortissimo all the time.

 

I agree that Sama Layuca is amazing. I also love Sahara, though - it’s an outstanding album.