Why was the Stan Getz thread deleted?

[paul secor]

Well said.

[7/4]

Perhaps the best course of action going forth would be a closing statment by a moderator explaining why a thread is being closed (not deleted) and a subsequent editing out of any too-far-gone posts coupled with the closing of the thread.

What he said.

[Chuck Nessa]

Perhaps the best course of action going forth would be a closing statment by a moderator explaining why a thread is being closed (not deleted) and a subsequent editing out of any too-far-gone posts coupled with the closing of the thread.

That ain't perfect either, but if you can find a better deal, take it.

I think if people were offended and others made "unseemly" posts, these should be displayed as an example. How will anyone learn anything - transgressors or transgressed. I feel it was a disservice to all by deleting the thread.

Just lock the friggin' thread.

As an example I cite the nasty Cliff Englewood thread now current.

When I'm gone some folks will say negative things about me (that's the way it goes) and hope my children take these statements in stride as opinions about a singular figure for whom they have private feelings.

[JSngry]

I hear you on all that, Chuck, but I also feel that there's enough "negative examples" to found pretty much every damn where you look. so if Jim occasionally chooses to be selective about which ones he hosts here, it ain't a deal-breaker, if you know what I mean.

Either way, this is the first thread I went toi after I got home, so now I gotta look for the nasty Cliff Englewood thread now current. Sounds like a real party on the patio...

[Chuck Nessa]

MMDV

[sheldonm]

Perhaps the best course of action going forth would be a closing statment by a moderator explaining why a thread is being closed (not deleted) and a subsequent editing out of any too-far-gone posts coupled with the closing of the thread.

That ain't perfect either, but if you can find a better deal, take it.

I think if people were offended and others made "unseemly" posts, these should be displayed as an example. How will anyone learn anything - transgressors or transgressed. I feel it was a disservice to all by deleting the thread.

Just lock the friggin' thread.

As an example I cite the nasty Cliff Englewood thread now current.

When I'm gone some folks will say negative things about me (that's the way it goes) and hope my children take these statements in stride as opinions about a singular figure for whom they have private feelings.

...what do you mean "when I'm gone"????

m~

[Chuck Nessa]

Perhaps the best course of action going forth would be a closing statment by a moderator explaining why a thread is being closed (not deleted) and a subsequent editing out of any too-far-gone posts coupled with the closing of the thread.

That ain't perfect either, but if you can find a better deal, take it.

I think if people were offended and others made "unseemly" posts, these should be displayed as an example. How will anyone learn anything - transgressors or transgressed. I feel it was a disservice to all by deleting the thread.

Just lock the friggin' thread.

As an example I cite the nasty Cliff Englewood thread now current.

When I'm gone some folks will say negative things about me (that's the way it goes) and hope my children take these statements in stride as opinions about a singular figure for whom they have private feelings.

...what do you mean "when I'm gone"????

m~

They figure while I'm here I can fend for myself.

[Jim Alfredson]

For the record, I deleted the Stan Getz stories thread because I thought that it had spiraled out of control and exposed some of the very ugliest sides of this board, sides that I am extremely ashamed of and that cause worry in my personal life.

I purposely did not even load this forum today until now. I sometimes don't check in more than once a day because of the ugliness that is on here. You all know what I'm talking about.

I really wish people would think before they post. I'm tired of being passive about it. Expect a lot more deletions, thread closings, and the like if things continue down the same path. I've been too lackadaisical in the moderation of this board.

And finally, I will remind everyone that this board reflects on me personally and the band, organissimo, in general. Please keep that in mind the next time you want to start insulting each other and spreading rumors.

That said, I wouldn't take all this the wrong way. The board has been here for six years; growing pains are part of the nature of the beast. I'm still trying to determine the best way to keep things positive and more importantly ON TOPIC. The key is "moderation". I think I am over-all fair in the handling of this forum.

Thank you for your understanding.

[clifford_thornton]

Oh, now the Allen Lowe is leaving thread is gone, too? Sheesh... people be gettin' unruly!

[Niko]

can accept the disappearance of the getz thread as a one of a kind thing... but then i saw the thread except for the last three hours or so and i really don't get what was so bad about it... most of the trouble came from "invaders", there was a bunch of interesting information, didn't quite buy the baby story (but then larry didn't pretend it was true for certain...) but besides that bev didn't have much more to say than "i know dozens of stories that are even worse but i don't buy these" which i found not as spectacular an addition to the thread than she did... if anybody had thought stan getz was just some guy who had babies for lunch we wouldn't have started that thread (or at least we'd have discussed it differently)... as far as i understood it the thread was about the famous "bunch of guys"

if a thread started by a moderator leads into that much of a hassle i guess that means the rules aren't clear... so if i get jim right and this is a thing that's gonna happen here with some regularity from now on i for one would like to see the rules...

once talked to a photographer who had taken some photos of joe albany sent them to him and albany had sent back a thank you post card and some lps... from reading albany's daughter's book the story is almost unbelievable - but that certainly doesn't mean i don't believe her... just shows once again that people are complicated

[Cliff Englewood]

I think it's sad for the board the thread is gone. That's all I'll say.

Then you really shouldn't post anything in the thread, unless it's recommendations for Stan Getz recordings. If you're not willing to say anything on why you think it's sad for the board the thread is gone, why post that you think it's sad for the board that the thread is gone in the first place???

If the person who started the thread has no problem with it being deleted and the owner of the forum saw it as correct to delete it, then the matter is closed.

Now back to discussing the many recordings of Stan Getz that some of us have or may wish to get.

One reason I didn't say more. . . .Maybe I was being polite and didn't want to say something bad about you. You were rubbing your hands with glee that you felt Allen was chided by Bev. I didn't like your attitude. I haven't liked the way you provoke Allen.

I'd like to think you can find a better use for your time than worrying about what people say about Allen, he's a big boy and he can look after himself.

For the record, I deleted the Stan Getz stories thread because I thought that it had spiraled out of control and exposed some of the very ugliest sides of this board, sides that I am extremely ashamed of and that cause worry in my personal life.

I purposely did not even load this forum today until now. I sometimes don't check in more than once a day because of the ugliness that is on here. You all know what I'm talking about.

I really wish people would think before they post. I'm tired of being passive about it. Expect a lot more deletions, thread closings, and the like if things continue down the same path. I've been too lackadaisical in the moderation of this board.

And finally, I will remind everyone that this board reflects on me personally and the band, organissimo, in general. Please keep that in mind the next time you want to start insulting each other and spreading rumors.

That said, I wouldn't take all this the wrong way. The board has been here for six years; growing pains are part of the nature of the beast. I'm still trying to determine the best way to keep things positive and more importantly ON TOPIC. The key is "moderation". I think I am over-all fair in the handling of this forum.

Thank you for your understanding.

Jim, sorry for causing you any trouble with my fake retirement post and other than the fact that it took me a while to type it, I have no problem with you deleting it. I know I PM'd you recently regarding behaviour on the board and I don't want you to think that I was doing that just to test the waters, the two incidents were separate and the timing was coincidental. It was meant as genuine satire and I though it was quite funny. I know of at least two other members who found it funny as well, I’m sure there were more they just didn’t PM me. To anybody who didn't get to read it, I still have the text and can PM it to you and you can make up your own minds. A few people didn't like it; I could have predicted who they were before I posted it, the kind of babies that go on about the whole freedom of speech thing until they read something they don't like. No biggie, as I say it was a joke and anyone who has been on the board for a while and has a sense of humour probably enjoyed it.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Cliff Englewood

[jazzbo]

I can suggest better uses for your time too, but I'll refrain.

The board is poorer without Allen. I hope he returs soon.

[Denis]

For the record, I deleted the Stan Getz stories thread because I thought that it had spiraled out of control and exposed some of the very ugliest sides of this board, sides that I am extremely ashamed of and that cause worry in my personal life.

I purposely did not even load this forum today until now. I sometimes don't check in more than once a day because of the ugliness that is on here. You all know what I'm talking about.

I really wish people would think before they post. I'm tired of being passive about it. Expect a lot more deletions, thread closings, and the like if things continue down the same path. I've been too lackadaisical in the moderation of this board.

And finally, I will remind everyone that this board reflects on me personally and the band, organissimo, in general. Please keep that in mind the next time you want to start insulting each other and spreading rumors.

That said, I wouldn't take all this the wrong way. The board has been here for six years; growing pains are part of the nature of the beast. I'm still trying to determine the best way to keep things positive and more importantly ON TOPIC. The key is "moderation". I think I am over-all fair in the handling of this forum.

Thank you for your understanding.

Thank you Mr. Alfredson

You echo my sentiment 100%.

When I first registered on this board a little more than a year ago

I was here for the diversity of opinions and the knowledge of all its members.

Also the boards looked like they were well moderated.

This is what impressed me the most.

I don't post often but I am here everyday.

Thank you for this great community.

Denis

[neveronfriday]

I don't get this board anymore.

Half of you (or more) condone a story about Stan Getz shoving repositories up baby's asses and taking them out again shortly thereafter, posted by a man of nearly unshakable repute (and a man I have tons of respect for), and then you whine about the deletion of the thread. Yes, some people tried to mildly refute it, and that seems to have been enough for the more verbal members of this board.

Not in my book.

No fuckin' way.

A ot of it was embarrassing, juvenile ... and read by tons of people across the planet.

Have you ever looked at how many people are reading along here when you are online?

Try it!

[Jim, delete the following, if you please]

A while back, Jim contacted me about a faintly possible tour of Europe and I spent a a shitload (!) of time (fucking weeks) getting some gigs lined up for Organissimo in case they ever did want to come here. I don't know how many evenings I went to gigs and arrangements just to meet the people again that I knew could help out.

Sorry, but you guys fucked that up royally because you think this is your own private fucking living room. Totally!

Two 100% lined-up gigs that Organissimo could have had?

Down the fucking chute.

Who do you think you fucking are ... allowed to fuck-up Jim's career?

Adult and academic posture?

Yeah, sure.

I have nothing against discussing an artist's shortcomings, not at all, but to condone isolated and totally unsubstantiated and impossible shit that was posted about Stan Getz: You (and you know who you are) did Jim and the band members a superior disservice.

In a major fucking way.

Yes, you canceled possible gigs for Jim!

You!

And I can fucking prove it!

I have been a visitor these past months again, living off the fabulous (!) pool of information this board offers (and, as many of you forget time and fucking time again, so have many others who never post here ... hundreds, if not thousands) but when I look at the thread about members of this board having lost their jobs, I didn't see anyone posting "Trusted capitalistic bastards?" and "You're own fucking fault" posts there.

Thank God.

Why not?

Didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings?

Of course, but with Stan Getz it didn't matter, did it?

Dan, I'm speaking to you directly here. I felt really bad for you, reading along as much as I could to see if your situation would improve (it seems that it has, and I'm glad). No matter the differences, this is life and although I have not met a single individual member in real life, I fucking care! Really, I do. But have you ever thought what gives you the right to soak up the positive comments re your situation while dealing out heavy-handedly to Jim and the rest? No?

Shit, I just don't believe it.

You [edit: this does NOT single out Dan at all!] hurt Organissimo, the band, with that crap in the Getz thread and I have the feeling that some people who post here don't give a rat's ass. All they can come up with are excuses. Yes, leaving a thread up to learn from it (Chuck ...and I'm a fan of your work!!!) is a good idea, but to take an absolute stance on the matter is just wrong, in this instance, if you take into consideration WHERE you are. You're a guest here, and so am I.

Excuse my verbiage, guys and gals, but I'm seriously pissed (!!!). I worked for fucking endless hours to help Jim out and you guys just flush it down the toilet. Not a second thought.

Nada.

Niente.

Shame on you for thinking you can act out your agendas, your grievances and your opinions uncontrolled here.

I'll do the proverbial drama queen and publically state that this is the last fucking thing I ever want to have to do with Organissimo.

I ain't got the time for this shit!

Yes, fire away, as I expect you will.

Before you do, think for a second about the disservice you do to Jim Alfredson, one of the greatest organists if I've ever heard one, and one of the few individuals I've ever met that I have the utmost (!!!!) respect for. Have you any idea how difficult it is to reign in the many personalities online here? The last thing we can all say is that Jim didn't give anyone a mile-long rope to dance on. Get real, people, many of you are taking advantage of Jim, and you know it!

I hate to exclude the other band members here, but I don't have enough time to extoll their virtue(s). The band is great, the music is great, I have all of their CDs and I continuously do everything I fucking can to advertise their artistic expertise, the feeling these guys have and the wonderful music they produce. They are an ensemble (no wankin'), they are that much better for it, and you guys are barging in there and fucking things up.

You don't seriously believe that any venue will book Organissimo after some of the shit that has been posted here?

Outside of the US (yes, there is an outside!), venues are often publically or privately subsidized. There's no talk about freedom of speech, there's no talk about objectivity: there's talk about crap you guys post about artists that played at joints I tried to get Organissimo into! There is fear of inviting criticism once some shit like in the Getz thread is posted here.

Only fucking that!

Who cares if you think that is proper or not?

That is NOT the issue!

It's the way things are around here!

Again, I know that some of what you posted is true, but the only thing I hear is that "Organissimo isn't a band I want to book because of the controversy" (that's summing up a ton of mails I have in my, sorry, German, in-box). Yes, just about anyone I know in any jazz club or "gremium" reads along here, more or less.It was my biggest fucking mistake to actually tell them to do so.

Get off you high horses and damn well show some respect to Jim!

Tone it the fuck down to let him breathe and do not be so fucking self-righteous!

I appreciate the joy Jim and his band members have brought into my life, but I certainly don't appreciate single individuals screwing that up.

Up, across, and fucking out.

I've never been pissed more about wasting weeks of my life, so, please, at least understand my stance.

[Jim, end of deletion segment]

P.S.: I would like to go on public record, once again, by saying the following: Organissimo has afforded me great joy in my life, Jim has been a superb individual in every single conversation with me (not a single deviation) and I'd like to publicly excuse the many four-letter words here. Jim and the band don't deserve it, but I just couldn't refrain.

I'm fucking pissed.

Sorry, Jim!

Edited May 22, 2009 by neveronfriday

[neveronfriday]

I just "reported" my own post to Jim and whoever is in charge here.

[neveronfriday]

Sorry, one more thing.

I'm not going to respond here anymore, but I welcome any PM and will (!) prove every single statement I made here.

Besides that, consider me an ex-member ... which I've been for the past few years (and probably was before as well, as I didn't have much of substance to contribute. I'm really just a "fan").

[7/4]

How about some other day of the week?

Just in time for the holiday!

[T.D.]

Kudos to Jim A. and neveronfriday.

Edited May 22, 2009 by T.D.

[7/4]

Dan, I'm speaking to you directly here. I felt really bad for you, reading along as much as I could to see if your situation would improve (it seems that it has, and I'm glad). No matter the differeneces, this is life and although I have not met a single individual member in real life, I fucking care!) Have you ever thought what givces you the right to soak up the positive comments re your situation while dealing out heavy-handedly to Jim and the rest? No?

Edited May 22, 2009 by 7/4

[Dan Gould]

What the hell did I say on that thread to deserve that?

I basically said the exact same things Allen was saying, if you talk about all of it not just the music itself, then talk about all of it. That's all I said.

And I get specifically called out?

[neveronfriday]

What the hell did I say on that thread to deserve that?

I basically said the exact same things Allen was saying, if you talk about all of it not just the music itself, then talk about all of it. That's all I said.

And I get specifically called out?

Dan , I'm really sorry.

I think the wording of what I wrote might have singled you out, just because I remembered what you wrote on that "unemployment" thread.

Quite to the contrary, I wanted to show my sympathy and had hoped, in vain, to avoid the feelings you got from what I wrote.

The thread in which you posted (re: work) has been one of the few I read regularly with the hope that everyone posting in there might have good luck in the immediate future.

My verbal mistake.

Dan. I read everything you posted in that thread and I sympathize more than you can possibly imagine!

Good luck and, I hope, ... no hard feelings!

Volkher

P.S.: "The 'You' in the paragraph following what I wrote about you, was supposed to mean a larger group, not you yourself!

Edited May 22, 2009 by neveronfriday

[Dan Gould]

Thank you, Volkher. I appreciate your good thoughts and am relieved to know you don't hold me to blame for whatever the fallout was from that thread.

Best to you, I hope you don't stay away permanently.

[neveronfriday]

Thank you, Volkher. I appreciate your good thoughts and am relieved to know you don't hold me to blame for whatever the fallout was from that thread.

Best to you, I hope you don't stay away permanently.

Dan, I've read everything that was posted here these past years and, to be quite honest, I do NOT want to fault any single individual.

I wouldn't dare!

That is NOT my point!

I even derived a a ton of information from Allen Lowe's comments, although I have felt intense displeasure at times. Not my kind of guy. But I certainly respect his knowledge! Isn't that what it's all about?

Shit, I have most of what he put out CD-wise in my shelf-system ... because it's good!

The same with Chris A. who, unfortunately, pulled an "Albertson" on this board.

I NEED his information to get on with my affliction.

All of it.

I just feel really bad for Jim who has to put up with the collateral damage, time and again.

Really, have you ever known a more restrained person?

I haven't.

For everyone involved : Give Jim some fucking room to breathe!

He can use it!

Or do you want to kill this wealth of information?

Some people are an inch away from doing so!

Edit: I screwed up too many words and some grammar here and there.

Fixed.

Sorry.

Edited May 22, 2009 by neveronfriday

[catesta]

I can suggest better uses for your time too, but I'll refrain.

The board is poorer without Allen. I hope he returs soon.

Sorry to disagree but Allen's bullshit chased away far better quality posters/members than he ever was and will be.

He cried personal foul when something was directed at him but if you go back and look in the history, 3/4 of his posts were total crap, a waste of time and space, not to mention extremely nasty and yes, personal.

I'd take couw or any of those cats posting here in place of his "coherence is overrated" type threads and repetetive lame attempts at jokes. Maybe all those former members weren't professional musicians with stories of working with this guy and maeeting that guy but they definitely added more character and subtance to the board.

Jim has had to delete multiple threads over time and is now going to police this place in a different way as a result of his antics.

Yeah, this board is poorer alright, but it ain't because of Allen not being here, he already did his part.

Chuck is right, the thread should not have been deleted as it once again wipes out the history and examples.

For those that will miss him during his temporary hiatus just start a ridiculous theard and post twenty or so one liners with obscure references or mention Hitler and it's as if he never left.

[paul secor]

When I read Jim's comments, I could feel the pain and discomfort he was feeling. I do feel that people should think about what they're doing before they post. Not excepting myself from this - I'm sure that all of us have overstepped the bounds of common courtesy, etc. at various times.

I think that all of us should remember that we are guests here and should try to act accordingly.

Maybe this makes me sound like a stuffed shirt, but it's what I feel is right.