Dmitry

Has the bottom fallen out of the Mosaic market?

206 posts in this topic

New pre-recorded tapes of albums massively out sold vinyl during the middle 1980s. There's objective evidence in terms of sales figures to back this up.

There's also, as was stated in several post back, strong support for the position that the CD is the best hard medium for delivering the remasters art.

We might not like these inconvenient truths....

Well................OK, then. But I still think they were a lousy format. 

I'm fine with CDs and would never buy vinyl again. Mainly because I have no room for LPs or shelf space for a turntable, but also because I don't miss having to turn over (or change) an album every 20 minutes.

I worked both retail and wholesale through the '80s and the cassette sales were completely dominated by the "hot 100". In all other sections of the music biz vinyl killed. In the catalog stores, vinyl outsold cassettes at least 10 to 1. For indie music it was about the same.

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New pre-recorded tapes of albums massively out sold vinyl during the middle 1980s. There's objective evidence in terms of sales figures to back this up.

There's also, as was stated in several post back, strong support for the position that the CD is the best hard medium for delivering the remasters art.

We might not like these inconvenient truths....

Well................OK, then. But I still think they were a lousy format. 

I'm fine with CDs and would never buy vinyl again. Mainly because I have no room for LPs or shelf space for a turntable, but also because I don't miss having to turn over (or change) an album every 20 minutes.

I worked both retail and wholesale through the '80s and the cassette sales were completely dominated by the "hot 100". In all other sections of the music biz vinyl killed. In the catalog stores, vinyl outsold cassettes at least 10 to 1. For indie music it was about the same.

Thanks, Chuck. That explains it. I've never been a "hot 100" kinda guy.

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New pre-recorded tapes of albums massively out sold vinyl during the middle 1980s. There's objective evidence in terms of sales figures to back this up.

There's also, as was stated in several post back, strong support for the position that the CD is the best hard medium for delivering the remasters art.

We might not like these inconvenient truths....

Britney Spears massively out sold The Beatles and The Rolling Stones in late 90's/early 2000s. In the grand scheme that doesn't mean much of anything. 

I had a massive collections of cassettes in the 80's, that doesn't mean they were a superior medium. 

They weren't. They just happened to sell better at the time. 

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I remember seeing cassettes of OJC's in the store, perhaps around 1987.  When I saw that, I thought that that was an indication of something.

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I imagine that the Mosaic LP sets have held and will hold their value longer. They're great sets.

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Over the last year, I've been picking up some of the sets dating from before I "discovered" the label in the late 90's.  I still enjoy my Mosaic sets very much - despite the oversized boxes.  I realize that the label started while LPs were transitioning to CDs and the large boxes may have had some some utility and perhaps some marketing value early on, but I wish that Mosaic had transitioned long ago to a pure CD box for sets that were exclusively on CD.  I have some really nice CD packages on my shelves - and I think Mosaic missed the boat there.  Especially with the Select series with those flimsy cases and awful pastel colors.  Horrible packaging, IMO.  Of course the packaging did not prevent me from picking them up.  I just think it could have been done better.

More on topic, here are the sets I've picked up and prices I paid on Ebay:

All sets complete with outer box and booklet

June 2015 - Commodore Volume 2 - LP - $144 

October 2014 - Art Hodes - 5 LP - $50

October 2014 - Hall Johnson de Paris - Dickenson - 6 LP - $50

September 2014 - Cecil Taylor - 4 CD - $152

September 2014 - Johnny Hodges 51-56 - 6 LP - $125

September 2014 - Albert Ammons Meade Lux Lewis - 3 LP - $55

August 2014 - Clifford Brown - 5 LP - $110

 

 

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I saw the Nat King Cole set at Dusty Groove today on sale for $600.  Clearly no bottom in sight here.   

Looking at eBay, there are two copies of the NKC set on CD with respective BINs of $899 and $999 and a sealed LP set with an opening bid of $750 and a $1500 BIN. But if you look at the completed listings, all of the recently sold copies of the CD set (at least the ones with visible prices - there are a couple of "best offer accepted" ones) are between $300-400. That would seem to indicate that the real market value is a lot closer to $300-400 than $600-700, significantly less than it was just a couple of years ago.

Exactly.  Asking prices mean nothing.  Take any given "common" title on ebay, and look at the range of asking prices there, and compare those to the asking prices on Amazon and Half, and it's all over the place.  What has meaning is what people are actually paying for the item (which can be found on ebay, but not the other sites), not what some occasionally deluded sellers may be asking for it.

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I saw the Nat King Cole set at Dusty Groove today on sale for $600.  Clearly no bottom in sight here.   

Looking at eBay, there are two copies of the NKC set on CD with respective BINs of $899 and $999 and a sealed LP set with an opening bid of $750 and a $1500 BIN. But if you look at the completed listings, all of the recently sold copies of the CD set (at least the ones with visible prices - there are a couple of "best offer accepted" ones) are between $300-400. That would seem to indicate that the real market value is a lot closer to $300-400 than $600-700, significantly less than it was just a couple of years ago.

Exactly.  Asking prices mean nothing.  Take any given "common" title on ebay, and look at the range of asking prices there, and compare those to the asking prices on Amazon and Half, and it's all over the place.  What has meaning is what people are actually paying for the item (which can be found on ebay, but not the other sites), not what some occasionally deluded sellers may be asking for it.

Yes - when it comes to ebay, you definitely need to look at "Completed" prices, not "Asking" prices. People ask all sorts of crazy prices for many reasons. Usually just wishful thinking.

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That's one where the bottom has not fallen out (yet?):

same goes for the Maynard Ferguson ... (and btw, I only wanted to insert a link, but when I hit "enter", it automatically displayed the whole post ... brand new forum world ;))

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October 2014 - Hall Johnson de Paris - Dickenson - 6 LP - $50

The US market for these seems to be quite different to the UK i.e dollar for £ or worse. Saw this set at £90 recently and it wasn't even mint either !

'Ray's Jazz' in London had a whole load of the CD sets in recently - most were priced around the £200 mark so no deals there.

Edited by sidewinder

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'Ray's Jazz' in London had a whole load of the CD sets in recently - most were priced around the £200 mark so no deals there.

But how likely is Ray's to sell them SOON at that price?

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'Ray's Jazz' in London had a whole load of the CD sets in recently - most were priced around the £200 mark so no deals there.

But how likely is Ray's to sell them SOON at that price?

Not very, I think..

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That's one where the bottom has not fallen out (yet?):

same goes for the Maynard Ferguson ... (and btw, I only wanted to insert a link, but when I hit "enter", it automatically displayed the whole post ... brand new forum world ;))

Use the chain/link image-button to insert the link, then paste the link into the text box. A link it will shall stay

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/77715-count-basie-complete-roulette-studio-md10-149/

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Let me know when the Maynard Ferguson sets sells for less than $200.  :rolleyes:      (I want it!)

Edited by Tjazz

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I'd like to find a good price on the Quebgec/Hardee set (or on the Hardee material in a different configuration).

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I'd like to find a good price on the Quebgec/Hardee set (or on the Hardee material in a different configuration).

Look for TOCJ-66016:

john_hardee_on_blue_note.jpg

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Jazz Record Mart has been selling a lot of Mosaic sets recently, seems like they list about 10 at a time or so.    I haven't gotten any, but it looks like there have been a few bargains.  They have a bunch up now.

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I'd like to find a good price on the Quebgec/Hardee set (or on the Hardee material in a different configuration).

I picked it up (without a box or giant booklet) for $49.99 in June.  Great set.  I'd like to track down the booklet to hopefully learn some more about Hardee (and Quebec, for that matter). 

Jazz Record Mart has been selling a lot of Mosaic sets recently, seems like they list about 10 at a time or so.    I haven't gotten any, but it looks like there have been a few bargains.  They have a bunch up now.

For anyone interested in the Thad Jones Mosaic that JRM is selling, I recommend it.  I found it recently for $9.99 (yes, $9.99) without the box or booklet and it is a marvelous set.

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I suppose my best recent Mosaic buy was the Columbia Piano Moods 7CD set (complete with box & booklet) bought locally here in Brisbane for Aus $24.99 

9.99 is truly a bargain for the Thad Jones set!!

I managed to score the complete Quebec/Hardee set in Sydney in the late 90's for about $30, vinyl though so had to digitalise it

Mosaics tend to go cheap here in Australia - many of the shops don't really know what they are

I was in Western Australia earlier this year & I found a mint Johnny Mercer Mosaic Select for $15 - I actually offered to give the shop owner $20

Edited by romualdo

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Agreed. Thad Jones is a great set and usually affordable.
That ebay auction is now almost $30 - still a bargain!

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Just bought the Commodore vol. 2 and found the Mosaic receipt inside from 12/31/1990.  Bob Raggio was the buyer.  $207 plus $12.50 shipping.  (his credit card info is also priinted)  I paid alittle less (25 years later).

(info found online)

Posted: Sunday, February 8, 2015 10:47 pm

 

LAKE FOREST, Calif. — Ann Elizabeth Lesh Raggio, 71, of Lake Forest, Calif., died Thursday, Jan. 8, 2015.

Born March 22, 1943, she was the daughter of Glenn and Martha Ann Lesh of Cochranton.

 

Ann was a graduate of Cochranton High School’s class of 1961 and Oil City Nursing School’s class of 1964. She began her career at Presbyterian University Hospital in Pittsburgh.

In 1970, after her marriage to Robert Raggio on Aug. 23, the couple moved to California where Ann continued her nursing career the next 38 years in various administrative positions in the Lake Forest area. Robert preceded her in death Jan. 3, 2004.

Ann is survived by her twin sister, Mary Ketner and husband Michael of Pittsburgh; her sister, Peggy Koontz and husband Sid Welch of Medina, Ohio; nephew, Jeb Koontz and wife Tracy of Medina; niece, Molly Lesh Roark and husband John of Mt. Morris, Mich.; and four great-nephews, Liam and Hudson Koontz, Christian Kirk and J.J. Roark.

In addition to her husband, she was preceded in death by her parents.

There were no calling hours.

A memorial service will be held in the spring or early summer.

Memorials may be made to Cochranton Presbyterian Church, 109 Smith St., or to Cochranton Public Library, 107 W. Pine St., both of Cochranton, Pa. 16314.

Edited by Tjazz

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I only ever bought the Blue Note sets and largely stuck with them although have been tempted (not indulged) in new releases on CD of the Larry Young and Andrew Hills

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Just bought the Commodore vol. 2 and found the Mosaic receipt inside from 12/31/1990.  Bob Raggio was the buyer.  $207 plus $12.50 shipping.  (his credit card info is also priinted)  I paid alittle less (25 years later).

(info found online)

Posted: Sunday, February 8, 2015 10:47 pm

 

LAKE FOREST, Calif. — Ann Elizabeth Lesh Raggio, 71, of Lake Forest, Calif., died Thursday, Jan. 8, 2015.

Born March 22, 1943, she was the daughter of Glenn and Martha Ann Lesh of Cochranton.

 

Ann was a graduate of Cochranton High School’s class of 1961 and Oil City Nursing School’s class of 1964. She began her career at Presbyterian University Hospital in Pittsburgh.

In 1970, after her marriage to Robert Raggio on Aug. 23, the couple moved to California where Ann continued her nursing career the next 38 years in various administrative positions in the Lake Forest area. Robert preceded her in death Jan. 3, 2004.

Ann is survived by her twin sister, Mary Ketner and husband Michael of Pittsburgh; her sister, Peggy Koontz and husband Sid Welch of Medina, Ohio; nephew, Jeb Koontz and wife Tracy of Medina; niece, Molly Lesh Roark and husband John of Mt. Morris, Mich.; and four great-nephews, Liam and Hudson Koontz, Christian Kirk and J.J. Roark.

In addition to her husband, she was preceded in death by her parents.

There were no calling hours.

A memorial service will be held in the spring or early summer.

Memorials may be made to Cochranton Presbyterian Church, 109 Smith St., or to Cochranton Public Library, 107 W. Pine St., both of Cochranton, Pa. 16314.

Bob Raggio was the jazz buyer at Tower El Toro, which later was moved to the other side of the I5 to become Tower Laguna Hills.  He was a really nice guy who played the washboard - you can find him credited on a number of recordings by Bob Helm and others.  Bob loved Ann very much and spoke of her quite frequently.  He also loved his music, especially traditional jazz, swing, and vintage blues.  On more than one occasion I saw Bob leave at the end of his shift with a towering stack of CDs (on labels such as Chronological Classics, Frog, Jazz Oracle, etc.) to purchase.  I know that he also had a HUGE vinyl collection.

When I heard (secondhand and far after the fact) that Bob had passed away, I really wanted to track down Ann to advise her on the value of Bob's collection - Mosaics and other rare jazz recordings were fetching top dollar on eBay around that time and, if she were inclined to sell Bob's collection for some reason, I did not want her to be taken by an unscrupulous buyer.  However, I felt uncomfortable with introducing myself under such conditions, and I never took any action.

At any rate, thanks for sharing that nicely written remembrance of Ann.  I hope that you really enjoy the Commodore II set.

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