JSngry

Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

833 posts in this topic

I am having trouble following this discussion; are we talking about the BG Columbia and Okeh sessions?

btw, not necessarily relevant here, but I just cannot listen to post-1935 Benny Goodman any more. It took me a while to figure out why, but his sound drives me nuts. It just doesn't fit the music, and to my ears it's like fingernails on a blackboard. It's too sweet and sentimental. And it just diminishes any band that plays with him. I'll take Shaw or Hasselgarde.

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There's definitely a difference, I get that. I love the way the band evolved, though, the charts got better, the band got better, the sections got tighter, dynamics got more nuanced, everything just evolved. As a soloist's band, eh..., but for ensemble playing, that band got to it's own zone. No band did that thing better, Ever,

Understand that it's not to everybody's tastes, an evolution of that nature, and I'd certainly not want all "big band" music to go like that, but it seems to have been right in line with Goodman's own personality. He had his own unique pocket, tempo, pulse, phrasing, quirky balance between absolute precision and definite swing pulsation,and his band played like him. And Toots Mondello, unsung hero, that sax section keeps sounding better to me as time goes by.

I keep coming back to this one cut..when you listen to the zone that band is in...it's a perfect unity, no detail left unexamined and refined just so. and it swings like a mofo in that quietly fastidious Benny Goodman way. Dave Tough!

That's one helluva chart (Eddie Sauter, iirc), one helluva band. Dave Tough, Jimmy Maxwell, Toots Mondello. And impeccably recorded.

That's not even on the set, but this is, and again, this has to be a band at the apex of doing that unique, Goodman-specific thing.

I'm in a phase right now where "orchestral" playing interests me quite a bit, section work, integrations of orchestrations and micro-timings to create a unified compositional performance. This band, they were doing that.

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15 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

A NICE Day!

OTOH, all that repressed anxiety had to find an outlet somewhere! You get too cold and it does get hot!

 

Cool better than cold, unless until otherwise. Konitz better than most, always.

 

Heroin also no better than coke, even when mixed, but either way...no matter where you go, there's always somebody there.

 

Thermostats  in action!

 

See? You can play that game all day and in the end it doesn't explain anything. If Jack responds to the alleged stimulus by X and Jill responds by Y, what good is the stimulus for explaining anything?

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It's not a stimulus without reactons, whatever they are.

 

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None of your examples match what I had in mind, and after quickly going through the Goodmans I can't find a good example either, so perhaps I need to revise my opinion. Here's the closest thing I could find to movie soundtrack music: 

 

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

It's not a stimulus without reactons, whatever they are.

 

Mm, but interpreting them historically is another matter. Something as subjective as music can be interpreted anyway you want. The music got loud and raucous? That's because the atomic bomb was loud and violent. The music got quiet and subdued? That's because after the war everyone wanted peace and quiet. 

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Wow...no, not at all. Things were getting loud before that atomic bomb. Things were getting quiet before the atomic bomb. But the atomic bomb and all that came along and after it, that was a fulcrum point. Of course it was, don't think it can be anything else. Life was already getting loud, and WWII was aloud war between loud peoples. It had a very loud ending, and loud creates ripples. Of course people wanted quiet when they got loud. And of course loud kept getting louder the more people wanted quiet. And of course both things happened concurrently. How could they not? People never get what they want, they get what they want to get away from. We are hunters and prey at once.

As for that Goodman cut, gotta be this that or another you never will be, ha, I wish there was a movie orchestra that played like that. Don't know how much written ensemble music you listen to or how you listen to it, that's your business, not mine, but that band's blend and precision is really remarkable. And it swings, maybe not BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM swing, but people talk about how tight the Glenn Miller band was (and it was, the airshots are a marvel at times), but the Miller band just did not swing the way this band did (if they swung at all, somebody once said here a long time ago that no, they didn't swing, they rocked, and maybe so).

What's the point of having charts if you're not going to dig into them and make them speak? Those weren't head charts, riff excursions, jamming frameworks, those were purposeful self-contained works. The degree of detail in how Goodman got his band to play them is not at all common. If you think it's loud, listen to how it's loud, there are different types of loud, different ways to balance the balances, blends and attacks. Loud is not just a matter of decibels, ok?

 

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On 7/16/2017 at 3:41 AM, Clunky said:

I got notification from Mosaic that my order of the James P Johnson set it ready to ship

Got my notice the same day.  Big win for the "JPJ Pressure Group".  Happy to say the set arrived today.  Looking forward to giving it a spin.

 

Edited by Ed Swinnich

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