miles65

New Woody Herman Mosaic

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Some other stray entries in the Woody Herman discography:

412Kq07YvJL._SY355_.jpg

R-2646721-1338929123-1279.jpeg.jpg

3785.jpg

All apparently from 1978 on Century Records. (Flip being Flip Phillips)

R-11701562-1520897004-5610.jpeg.jpg

Released in 1998 on Chiaroscuro Records.

 

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I remember this one being pretty good too.

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Has anybody heard this one?

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notable names include Eddie Costa & Nat Adderley, Timings are discouraging, though?

81iUVMEe9mL._SL1500_.jpg

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I'd like to hear this one again. Bought it when it came out way back when, and my memory is that it was something of a riot in the best sense -- very loose and swinging.

 

Woody Herman And The Las Vegas Herd ‎– Jackpot!

Label:
Capitol Records ‎– 5C 038-85404
Format:
Vinyl, LP, Album, Mono, Reissue 
Country:
Released:
Genre:
Style:
 

Tracklist

A1 920 Special 6:14
A2 Bags' Other Groove 3:35
A3 Broadway 2:40
A4 Jumpin' At The Woodside 5:02
B1 The Boot 5:27
B2 Wailing Wall 4:07
B3 Base Face 2:39
B4 Junior 3:36

Companies, etc.

Credits

28 minutes ago, duaneiac said:

Some other stray entries in the Woody Herman discography:

412Kq07YvJL._SY355_.jpg

R-2646721-1338929123-1279.jpeg.jpg

3785.jpg

All apparently from 1978 on Century Records. (Flip being Flip Phillips)

R-11701562-1520897004-5610.jpeg.jpg

Released in 1998 on Chiaroscuro Records.

 

"Ruby and Woody" is a good one, very relaxed.

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14 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I remember this one being pretty good too.

R-2555155-1290260017.jpeg.jpg

Part of this 2 LP set was reissued on this CD:

R-8072704-1454612780-2672.jpeg.jpg

MI0002252945.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

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Just got this email from Mosaic:

New Woody Herman Release?

 

 

 

 

 

We are currently determining whether to a release a new Mosaic set THE COMPLETE WOODY HERMAN DECCA, MARS AND MGM SESSIONS (1943-1954), which will include 131 tracks on 7 CDs

With the slowing of sales of CDs, we need to be assured that there is enough demand for this set before incurring the costs and commitment to issue this body of work. The Mosaic business model is becoming harder and harder to sustain and therefore we'll need a strong response for preorders before we are able to proceed.

If you place an advance order for this set, your credit card will not be charged until we create and press the set and ship it to you (however PayPal is immediately deducted from your funds). We strongly suggest that you not combine this advance order with any existing sets.

We expect to make a decision by the end of August and the set would be available at the end of 2018.

 

 

 

We regret any pressure or inconvenience this may cause you in your purchasing decisions, but this is the only way that we can safely proceed. 
 
Thank you for your support and understanding,

 

 

 

Michael & Scott

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It feels like a shakedown here, even though I totally get why they're doing it. Still, if you even think you might want it, preorder now r else it won't necessarily happen, hmmmm...for a set I want eventually but not right away, this model makes me both a little uncomfortable and a little pissed off.

We are currently determining whether to a release a new Mosaic set THE COMPLETE WOODY HERMAN DECCA, MARS AND MGM SESSIONS (1943-1954), which will include 131 tracks on 7 CDs

With the slowing of sales of CDs, we need to be assured that there is enough demand for this set before incurring the costs and commitment to issue this body of work. The Mosaic business model is becoming harder and harder to sustain and therefore we'll need a strong response for preorders before we are able to proceed.

If you place an advance order for this set, your credit card will not be charged until we create and press the set and ship it to you (however PayPal is immediately deducted from your funds). We strongly suggest that you not combine this advance order with any existing sets.

 

 

We expect to make a decision by the end of August and the set would be available at the end of 2018.

 

 

 

We regret any pressure or inconvenience this may cause you in your purchasing decisions, but this is the only way that we can safely proceed. 
 
Thank you for your support and understanding,

 

 

 

Michael & Scott

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I don’t understand how you can be pissed off when you know why they’re doing it this way. If there isn’t demand, it obviously wouldn’t make economic sense for them to make it.  Moreover, your card won’t be charged at this time. 

Edited by Brad

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Doesn't seem to me like a shakedown; it does seem a logical way to gauge whether the set will sell.  Contrast this to what the Grateful Dead do: They announce a box set six months in advance, take orders and immediately charge the card.  In effect, the advance orders pay the costs of producing the set.  I wouldn't blame Mosaic for taking that approach, because it would be less money out of pocket for them.

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Yeah, it strikes me as more of a quasi-Kickstarter approach--understandable, given the way things have gone for the past few years.  I'll definitely call in a pre-order today.

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19 minutes ago, Brad said:

I don’t understand how you can be pissed off when you know why they’re doing it this way. If there isn’t demand, it obviously wouldn’t make economic sense for them to make it.  Moreover, your card won’t be charged at this time. 

Unless you use PayPal.

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Kind of going the crowdfunding route ... fine with me if it helps them go on!

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1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

Yeah, it strikes me as more of a quasi-Kickstarter approach--understandable, given the way things have gone for the past few years.  I'll definitely call in a pre-order today.

Exactly.  This is Kickstarter, without Kickstarter taking a cut.  Seems perfectly reasonable to me, and (genuinely) not at all like a 'shakedown'.

I'd pre-order that Bill Barron set later this afternoon, if given half a chance.  (Or any of a dozen other sets I could imagine.)  Still, of course, there will be other sets I'd be less inclined to jump on immediately (even if I might later decide to get them).

These last 10-15 years, my usual modus operandi was to wait until something I really wanted was about to go out of print (got to 'running low'), and then I'd buy every single Mosaic set that I could fathom wanting all in one big batch (to save on shipping) -- so like every 3-4 years, I'd put in these massive $350-$450 orders (I think once I did top $500 even).  Then I wouldn't spend another dime until something else I wanted was about to go OOP, which usually took another 3-4 years.

Well, if I gotta change my habits -- and my pre-order will only (help) make or break the existence of a set even coming into fruition (even if it means I have to pay more shipping as a result) -- then I'm fine with that, and glad to vote with my $$$ when my interest is sufficiently piqued.

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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18 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Unless you use PayPal.

True!

I wasn’t planning to get this set but if it helps them out I will. 

Edited by Brad

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I also have only a marginal interest at the moment for the music.  But if I have learned anything over the past 10 years of my odyssey into jazz, I will in all likelihood move in that direction and kick myself in the butt for buying on the secondary market after Mosaic sells though their limited run.  Basically a no-brainer.  "Sold!"

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1 hour ago, Brad said:

I don’t understand how you can be pissed off when you know why they’re doing it this way. If there isn’t demand, it obviously wouldn’t make economic sense for them to make it.  Moreover, your card won’t be charged at this time. 

 

1 hour ago, mjzee said:

Doesn't seem to me like a shakedown; it does seem a logical way to gauge whether the set will sell.  Contrast this to what the Grateful Dead do: They announce a box set six months in advance, take orders and immediately charge the card.  In effect, the advance orders pay the costs of producing the set.  I wouldn't blame Mosaic for taking that approach, because it would be less money out of pocket for them.

 

1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

Yeah, it strikes me as more of a quasi-Kickstarter approach--understandable, given the way things have gone for the past few years.  I'll definitely call in a pre-order today.

 

59 minutes ago, king ubu said:

Kind of going the crowdfunding route ... fine with me if it helps them go on!

 

58 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Exactly.  This is Kickstarter, without Kickstarter taking a cut.  Seem perfectly reasonable to me, and (genuinely) not at all like a 'shakedown'.

I'd pre-order that Bill Barron set later this afternoon, if given half a chance.  (Or any of a dozen other sets I could imagine.)  Still, of course, there will be other sets I'd be less inclined to jump on immediately (even if I might later decide to get them).

These last 10-15 years, my usual modus operandi was to wait until something I really wanted was about to go out of print (got to 'running low'), and then I'd buy every single Mosaic set that I could fathom wanting all in one big batch (to save on shipping) -- so like every 3-4 years, I'd put in these massive $350-$450 orders (I think once I did top $500 even).  Then I wouldn't spend another dime until something else I wanted was about to go OOP, which usually took another 3-4 years.

Well, if I gotta change my habits -- and my pre-order will only (help) make or break the existence of a set even coming into fruition (even if it means I have to pay more shipping as a result) -- then I'm fine with that, and glad to vote with my $$$ when my interest is sufficiently piqued.

I agree with the quoted posts. However, while I fully understand the route chosen by Mosaic for this and maybe all their future projects I'm afraid the availability of new sets from Jazz Messengers in Barcelona, Spain, will be hit, since they (JM) do not pre-order sets - or so they told me. Importing Mosaics directly keeps getting more expensive by the day for customers in the EU, with import charges and all that - well, maybe that's a bit exaggerated, but cheap it isn't and getting the sets from JM is a lot easier and often cheaper.

Edited by J.A.W.

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Fine, I'll let you eager beavers be the ones to move this set ahead. I'll be happy to limp in to the finish line. But if it fails to occur, don't blame me, I am a sale, just not an immediate one. Bill Barron, hell yeah. 2nd tier Woody Herman, not so much. Their plea for appeal ain't going to work today, not on this set, sorry.

Kickstarter I'm fine with for individuals, or super-indie projects that have no other recourse for funding. I don't see how Mosaic meets either criteria. They're a commercial business, and still have corporate ties(?).I'm assuming that annotation is either in place or has been commissioned, surely there's been some kind of an outlay for that already?

At the very basic level of decency and/or propriety, gauge the interest first before announcing the set in all its details and accompanying Pavloian saliva-inducers (we all fall for it, we all do).

You know, I really don't need to have the black box, just print a book, sell it for whatever is enough, and then offer the rest as downloads. That would work just fine, at least better than this type of ransom note (if you EVER want to see your ____set...) masquerading as a pseudo kickscart. Are they in business to provide product to a market or are they in business to only do it their way or no way? If they want to play the victim, let it be of their own myopia.

 

Sexy dancer!

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I don't see this as kickstarter or not very much. Kickstarter charges as soon as goal is met. As I've learned here and with some Brian Lynch projects, it may be quite a while before you actually see what you paid for.  Mosaic will charge when they ship your set, as long as you are using a credit card.

They're building in guaranteed revenue and presumably profit to both keep the lights on and turn the crank and do it for some other set in the future, and I'm all for that.

But like Jim I'm not only not a sale now, I don't think I'm a sale later.  

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To clarify, I'm not in for this particular set (the Woody Herman 'Select' is all the Herman I own, save for my uncle's vinyl copy of The Ebony Concerto) -- but I'm all for the *concept* of them announcing sets that require a certain level of pre-sales in order for them to go forward with them.  I mean, if the other option is Mosaic stopping doing sets all together, I'll take this model (over nothing), definitely.

And I still think we should all call them to ask about how do we go about pre-ordering this great Bill Baron set we keep hearing about.

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Jazz keep be beggin'. What's wrong with that picture? I'm tired of it.

And really - once you preorder this thing, is there no changing your mind? Is this a final sale or a pledge?

You know, that guy that does Mode records, he probably sells even less units than Mosaic. He offers a lot of different options to his customers, but I don't know that I've ever gotten a ransom note from him.

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Well, I guess I give them credit for finding new ways to market their material. I mean, they can’t go the “hep us before we has to folds, precious!!!” route they went last year. At least not so soon afterwards. 

So, whatever. 

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I wonder why we are not seeing more offerings from Mosaic which are still under worldwide copyright.  Maybe the Beehive and Woody Shaw Muse boxes did not sell as well as previous boxes did.

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See, here's the crux thing right here:

With the slowing of sales of CDs, we need to be assured that there is enough demand for this set before incurring the costs and commitment to issue this body of work. The Mosaic business model is becoming harder and harder to sustain and therefore we'll need a strong response for preorders before we are able to proceed.

CDs, selling CDs, that's why they're flaking out like this. Not providing the product in an economically viable multi-tiered format, selling the fucking CDs. and I know, contractual baggage won't allow them to ever do anything but that or vinyl, but geez, contracts are only binding until they're not.

They're asking me to subsidize their fossil fuel model because they don't want to figure out how to at least offer a hybrid (and just offer one, not even build on, just offer one). Well, ok, what kind of a car are you asking me to buy? 2nd-tier Woody Herman? Some live Louis Armstrong? What else? Anything that I gives me an electrical jolt making me need the music and not just the idea of the packaging of the company selling it? At what point do I stop getting jerked around to Support Mosaic By Any Means Necessary and just say thanks for the memories, you'll always have a special place in my heart.

At some point, evolve or die, right?

 

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One wonders if this is how the death of buggy whip makers played out. 

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Well, geez, just don't pre-order it then, right?!  I mean, if this set doesn't come to pass, I'm not going to be sitting around thinking, "Damn, if just a few more of the Big O guys had put in an order, it coulda been a contendah..."  I'll make do with the fifty million other things I have to listen to.  Would it have been preferable if they had announced this first, instead of the standard Mosaic roll-out that was followed only a couple of days later by this qualifying email?  I can understand a sense of grievance about that, perhaps, but not so much that they're looking to gauge bottom-line interest in new sets before moving forward with them.  I'm surprised they didn't start doing this sooner, actually.  But maybe I'm an easy mark; I paid a year in advance for the Smithsonian's forthcoming hiphop anthology when they put it up on Kickstarter last year (and I gotta believe the Smithsonian has more resources than Mosaic, which, whatever its lingering ties to EMI or any other corporate entity, is pretty much a mom-and-pop biz run by three people these days).  I have no problem with Mosaic doing this if it's necessary to sustain the production of new sets.   

(Just noticed btw that I paid only $100 to get the Smithsonian box, and it's listing for $159 by street date, $139 pre-order... so I actually saved some money as well through contributing to the Kickstarter campaign.  I passed on any of the various bells and whistles they offered for higher pledge levels; just give me the box set, dammit.  But glad that they did it that way if that's what it took to make the set possible.)

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8 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

One wonders if this is how the death of buggy whip makers played out. 

I still at least like having the option of buggy whips (CD's), I'm afraid.  And I'm loath to do downloads.  Is there really ANY chance in hell that I'm gonna still have some download (that still functions) in 20 years?  Or how about 30 years?  Sure, it can be done.  But if even half my music collection (about 3,000-3,500 CD's currently) was downloads -- and not physical media -- who the hell has the time to port that stuff around from hard-drive to hard-drive, upgrading every few years, ad infinitum.

And, yeah, I know there are no guarantees with physical media either.  CD's get scratches, and houses burn down.  But I'll take my chances with physical media -- which as served me pretty darn well for the last 30 years, before I ever switch over to having tons of downloads (some or even many of which might disappear into the ether, in anywhere from 5-10 years).

Or maybe I'll be screwed either way -- when there are no longer any functioning CD-players to be had, but I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Maybe Mosaic should (also) offer downloads.  Fine by me if they (also) do, as long as they (also) still do CD's -- which, last time I checked, was still what the majority of their (admittedly dying -- aren't we all dying?) core clientele still listen on?

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