ghost of miles

Mosaic's Black and White label box set

23 posts in this topic

It would be a neat joke if they used a color cover photo on the box this time.

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I'm not sure if I'm up for a 12 cd box set whose theme is similar to what has been done in the past. Maybe no, maybe yes. 

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

It would be a neat joke if they used a color cover photo on the box this time.

:D

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This seems to be all that Helen Humes recorded for B&W:

Helen Humes (vcl) acc by unknown tp, William Woodman (tb) Eddie Hale (as) William "Wild Bill" Moore (ts) Meade Lux Lewis (p) Irving Ashby (g) Red Callender (b) Chico Hamilton (d)
Los Angeles, 1946
BW250    Be Baba Leba Boogie

Eddie Beal (p) replaces Meade Lux Lewis, rest same.
same date
BW251    Married Man Blues
BW252    Be Bop Bounce

Helen Humes acc by the Buck Clayton All Stars:
Helen Humes (vcl) acc by Buck Clayton (tp) Charlie Beal (p) Barney Kessel (el-g) Red Callender (b) Shadow Wilson (d)
Los Angeles, c. May 1946
BW414-5    If I Could Be With You One Hour Tonight 
BW415    I Don'T Know His Name 
BW416-2    Drive Me Daddy
 

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To quote from the page linked in the opening post:

"The projected Black and White label set will be 12 CDs at most, focusing on jazz content, and will include artists such as progressive big-band leaders Gerald Wilson and Earle Spencer, pianists Art Hodes, Cliff Jackson, and Willie the Lion Smith, vocalist Helen Humes, and clarinetists Barney Bigard and Joe Marsala. Saxophonist Jack McVea and some other musicians whose recordings for Black and White fall more into an R and B or blues category will not be included; neither will several jazz sides, such as saxophonist Charlie Ventura’s, that were sold for release on other labels, or recorded for other labels and then sold to Black and White (such as the recordings that Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie made with Red Norvo for Comet, subsequently licensed to Black and White)." 

Are the Jack McVea sides that much R&B? I can understand they omit T-Bone Walker as they covered these a long time ago. And is it really enough for "at most" 12 CDs?

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There comes a stage when you have to consider whether or not you will ever get through listening to 12 CDs of this stuff, even considering retirement listening time, taking into account the ‘to be opened’ pending pile building up.

Good that Mosaic are still gung-ho with releases though.

Edited by sidewinder

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1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

To quote from the page linked in the opening post:

"The projected Black and White label set will be 12 CDs at most, focusing on jazz content, and will include artists such as progressive big-band leaders Gerald Wilson and Earle Spencer, pianists Art Hodes, Cliff Jackson, and Willie the Lion Smith, vocalist Helen Humes, and clarinetists Barney Bigard and Joe Marsala. Saxophonist Jack McVea and some other musicians whose recordings for Black and White fall more into an R and B or blues category will not be included; neither will several jazz sides, such as saxophonist Charlie Ventura’s, that were sold for release on other labels, or recorded for other labels and then sold to Black and White (such as the recordings that Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie made with Red Norvo for Comet, subsequently licensed to Black and White)." 

Are the Jack McVea sides that much R&B? I can understand they omit T-Bone Walker as they covered these a long time ago. And is it really enough for "at most" 12 CDs?

I was fascinated by the prospect of a B&W box set (though I have a fair share on older vinyl reissues and also a handful of 78s) but this sort of selectiveness is begining to cloud things seriously for me. I am afraid with this kind of policy they will go for the "obvious" suspects (including everything that seasoned collectors have on the Storyville LPs - I'd certainly not be the only one among the target audience for this kid of set who'd then be heavily into duplications) but omit less obvious items that have never seen reissue (Phil Moore, for example?).And like you, I'd challenge the assertion that Jack McVea is that much R&B (or is R&B the new "shame word" within jazz again these days?). Or is it that we see an outdated approach to jazz from that period here that denigrates entertainment and tries to go for the "lofty arts"? I'd have thought those who run Mosaic know better than that by now.

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Considering the iffy financial state of Mosaic, I think they have to be careful at what is in or is out of the set as the set might become too large, making it harder to sell, not to mention how much space large sets may take up in their office -- administrative costs, etc. Although I would like to see McVea included, it's better to have this set than not. Sometimes you have to make financial decisions as to what you can do. 

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1 minute ago, Brad said:

Considering the iffy financial state of Mosaic, I think they have to be careful at what is in or is out of the set as the set might become too large, making it harder to sell, not to mention how much space large sets may take up in their office -- administrative costs, etc. Although I would like to see McVea included, it's better to have this set than not. Sometimes you have to make financial decisions as to what you can do. 

Yes, I understand, but if the risk of being selective is that you are back to the usual suspects, is this really in tune with what USED to be the Mosaic policy (I am NOT refering to "Selects" here, of course).

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Perhaps those days are gone, unfortunately. 

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There are a lot of McVea tracks on YouTube and having listened to a number of them, I see no reason they should not be included - and am disappointed that they are not.  I can see how the size of the set can be an impediment, but one could reasonably argue that 12 CDs is already too high a price point for many.  I wonder if they would consider a volume one and volume two approach. Seven or so CDs each and more inclusive.

 

Either way - I do enjoy these label oriented Mosaic sets a lot, so it won't stop me from purchasing this one.

Edited by Ed Swinnich

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"Open the Door. . . "

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3 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

"Open the Door. . . "

Exactly!

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7 hours ago, sidewinder said:

There comes a stage when you have to consider whether or not you will ever get through listening to 12 CDs of this stuff, even considering retirement listening time, taking into account the ‘to be opened’ pending pile building up.

Good that Mosaic are still gung-ho with releases though.

I have been retired almost four years and I agree that it is a challenge to catch up in my listening with all the new releases, reissues and purchases. But I'm still trying.

I don't think that I have that much music originally issued on Black & White, so I look forward to this boxed set.

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14 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I was fascinated by the prospect of a B&W box set (though I have a fair share on older vinyl reissues and also a handful of 78s) but this sort of selectiveness is begining to cloud things seriously for me. I am afraid with this kind of policy they will go for the "obvious" suspects (including everything that seasoned collectors have on the Storyville LPs - I'd certainly not be the only one among the target audience for this kid of set who'd then be heavily into duplications) but omit less obvious items that have never seen reissue (Phil Moore, for example?).And like you, I'd challenge the assertion that Jack McVea is that much R&B (or is R&B the new "shame word" within jazz again these days?). Or is it that we see an outdated approach to jazz from that period here that denigrates entertainment and tries to go for the "lofty arts"? I'd have thought those who run Mosaic know better than that by now.

According to Wiki, a Spanish label called Blue Moon (never heard of it) has released McVea's complete B&W recordings on four discs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McVea

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Blue Moon is a PD label that may or may not (stories differ) link back to Jodi Pudloh.

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9 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

I have been retired almost four years and I agree that it is a challenge to catch up in my listening with all the new releases, reissues and purchases. But I'm still trying.

I don't think that I have that much music originally issued on Black & White, so I look forward to this boxed set.

Yeah, my comments aside, I’m almost certainly going to buy this one (eventually). :)

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3 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

According to Wiki, a Spanish label called Blue Moon (never heard of it) has released McVea's complete B&W recordings on four discs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McVea

Captain, personally I am not worried about Jack McVea myself - I have the essentials of his output from that period both on Jukebox Lil LPs and on one or the other of the Blue Moon reissues (which ARE a subsidiary of Fresh Sound but this is no drawback as - again - they go where hardly anbody else - the Chronological Classics series excepted - has ever bothered to tread, US reissue labels included, in particular). But I just find the swiping generalization of Jack McVea as "R&B" (and therefore - from their apparent point of view - implicitly and underhandedly "unworthy" of inclusion) to be rather dumb coming from a reissue label that sees itself as such a connoisseur label. Jack McVea may straddle the fence but does fit in BOTH camps - 40s small band swing AND 40s jump blues. And I do wonder about who else of the less obvious artists permanently overlooked in reissues they won't include in their attempt to make sure the the obvious candidates (and selling eyecatchers) ARE included. Ho hum ... 

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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Steve, I, like you, would be interested in a box of B&W's R&B sides, but let's be realistic: Mosaic is a jazz label, not a R&B label, despite the superb boxes they devoted to T-Bone Walker, Amos Milburn, and Charles Brown long ago . You might argue about whether Jack McVea is jazz or R&B, but I suppose that call is up to Mosaic to make. I recall when they released the Benny Goodman box without vocals, one of their reasons was that most of the material was already available on CD; maybe these Blue Moon discs figured into their decision in the same way this time.

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7 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

According to Wiki, a Spanish label called Blue Moon (never heard of it) has released McVea's complete B&W recordings on four discs. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McVea

In their day they put out some good stuff that you couldn’t find except on LP. 

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9 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

According to Wiki, a Spanish label called Blue Moon (never heard of it) has released McVea's complete B&W recordings on four discs. 

Vol. I & II are still available from Fresh Sound, the other two  their website lists only Vol. 3 as out of print) may be found used.

https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/11308-jack-mcvea-rabon-tarrant-albums

amazon has all four volumes at affordable prices:

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Their contents can be found in the Tom Lord Disco, I count 36 Black & White sides. (If Lord lists it, it must be jazz enough.)

5 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

Steve, I, like you, would be interested in a box of B&W's R&B sides, but let's be realistic: Mosaic is a jazz label, not a R&B label, despite the superb boxes they devoted to T-Bone Walker, Amos Milburn, and Charles Brown long ago .

..... and Lightnin' Hopkins and Otis Spann from the Candid label. EMI started releasing a lot of their R & B catalogue from Capitol, Aladdin, Imperial and other labels under their control, so Mosaic may have been interested but could't get licenses. 

Edited by mikeweil

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