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Mark Stryker

Studio Only Groups

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Posted (edited)

What are some of the influential, landmark or special ensembles in jazz that existed solely in the recording studio, or at most played just a few gigs.

Armstrong Hot Five and Hot Seven -- I think the Hot Five appeared in public only once, at an event for OKeh Records.

Miles' Birth of the Cool nonet played, I think, only one two-week engagement at the Royal Roost. (Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.)

What else comes to mind from any era, including recent decades. Particularly interested to more than one-off recordings bands (though those certainly count) but those that perhaps made multiple recordings but still didn't exist outside the studio. Opening the floor to examples ...

 

 

Edited by Mark Stryker

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Fats Waller w/ Eddie Condon's Dixielanders

Side A:

(1) O Sister,ain’t that hot 

(2) Pretty Doll

Side B: 

(3) Georgia Grind

(4) Dancing Fool

Fats WALLER – Piano

Marty MARSALA - cornet

George BRUNIES - trombone

Pee Wee RUSSELL - clarinet

Eddie CONDON – guitar

Artie SHAPIRO – bass

George WETTLING - drums

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Billy Banks and His Orchestra (Red Allen, Pee wee Russell, Joe Sullivan, Condon, Jack Bland, Al Morgan, Gene Krupa)

 

Billy Banks and the Rhythm Makers -- Allen, Jimmy Lord ( clt; Russell (tenor sax) Fats Waller, Bland,  Pops Foster, Zutty Singleton)

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13 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

Fats Waller w/ Eddie Condon's Dixielanders

Side A:

(1) O Sister,ain’t that hot 

(2) Pretty Doll

Side B: 

(3) Georgia Grind

(4) Dancing Fool

Fats WALLER – Piano

Marty MARSALA - cornet

George BRUNIES - trombone

Pee Wee RUSSELL - clarinet

Eddie CONDON – guitar

Artie SHAPIRO – bass

George WETTLING - drums

Good one, thanks. To others: Like to see other examples of groups that made multiple recordings.  

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Cozy Cole's All Stars: Cozy Cole, drums; Earl Hines, piano, Coleman Hawkins, tenorsax; Trummy Young, trombone; Joe Thomas, trumpet; Billy Taylor, bass; Teddy Walters, guitar.

Dicky Wells and his Orchestra Bill Dillard, Shad Collins, Bill Coleman (tp); Dicky Wells (tb); Django Reinhardt (g solo); Richard Dick Fullbright (b); Bill Beason (dm)

Rex Stewart and his Feetwarmers Rex Stewart (c); Barney Bigard (cl & dm); Django Reinhardt (g); Billy Taylor (b)

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"Jo Jones Special" --"Emmet Berry (tp), Benny Green (tb), Lucky Thompson (ts), Freddie Green (g), Count Basie(p), Walter Page (b), Jo Jones (ds)

Lucky Thompson Trio -- Thompson, Oscar Pettiford, Skeeter Best

"Jazz Studio One" -- Joe Newman (trumpet), Bennie Green (trombone), Paul Quinichette, Frank Foster (tenor sax), Johnny Smith (guitar), Hank Jones (piano), Eddie Jones (bass), Kenny Clarke (drums)

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The majority of Stanley Turrentine's records 

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Spike Hughes and His All-American Orchestra: Bill Dillard , Leonard Davis , Shad Collins (tp) William "Dicky" Wells, George Washington , Wilbur De Paris (tb) Benny Carter , Howard Johnson , Wayman Carver (as,cl) Coleman Hawkins (ts) Rod Rodriguez (p) Lawrence Lucie (g) Ernest Hill (b) Kaiser Marshall (d) New York, April 18, 1933

 

Lonnie Johnson-Eddie Lang Duo

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Does anyone know how much Andrew Hill played live in the 60’s? — and just as importantly, with whom?

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Grand Encounter
Grand Encounter.jpg
Studio album by 
Released 1957
Recorded February 10, 1956
Los Angeles, CA
Genre Jazz
Length 34:41
Label Pacific Jazz
PJ-1217
Producer Richard Bock
John Lewis chronology
The Modern Jazz Society Presents a Concert of Contemporary Music
(1955)
Grand Encounter
(1957)
Afternoon in Paris
(1957)

Grand Encounter (2° East / 3° West)

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54 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Does anyone know how much Andrew Hill played live in the 60’s? — and just as importantly, with whom?

Excellent question. We would need to establish a chronology of Andrew's gigs, something like the Art Blakey chronology at jazzmf.com. The Hill discography at jazzdiscography.com can help, but there are probably not a whole lot of gigs from the 60s listed.

Ideally, one would need access to a database of jazz journals such as ripmjazz.com but you need some institutional affiliation. Alternatively, a person with a collection of downbeats from the 60s could look up all the gig listings.

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Teddy Charles Tentet

For tracks 8 and 9, recorded October 23, 1956.

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1 hour ago, Larry Kart said:

Teddy Charles Tentet

  • (personnel above)

Larry, I was JUST gonna mention Teddy Charles’ Tentet — an extraordinarily special and unique group, if ever there was.

By the way, I recently saw in another old thread that you had a manuscript that included a good bit about Teddy Charles’ medium-size group(s?) — were they always 10?  It was quite an old post (well over 10 years ago, maybe 15?).  Did you ever publish that particular piece?? (If so, where can I find it, or what’s the title?). I’d love to read it!

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Posted (edited)

Any of the "Django and his American Friends" dates. Were there many (any?) studio only groups that  had more than one recording date?   

 

I just thought of one:  "The Poll Winners"-- Shelly Mann, Ray Brown and Barney Kessel.   I don't  know of them doing any live appearances but they might have. 

Edited by medjuck

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50 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Larry, I was JUST gonna mention Teddy Charles’ Tentet — an extraordinarily special and unique group, if ever there was.

By the way, I recently saw in another old thread that you had a manuscript that included a good bit about Teddy Charles’ medium-size group(s?) — were they always 10?  It was quite an old post (well over 10 years ago, maybe 15?).  Did you ever publish that particular piece?? (If so, where can I find it, or what’s the title?). I’d love to read it!

I did write a book, "Jazz In Search of Itself" (Yale U. Press)  that includes many of the pieces I'd written over the years that I thought were worth preserving but sadly there's nothing there about Charles' music. I wish there had been.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Teddy Charles Tentet

For tracks 8 and 9, recorded October 23, 1956.

The Teddy Charles Tentet is discussed at length in Cohen and Fitzgerald's Rat Race Blues: The Musical Life of Gigi Gryce.

From pp. 191-194:

The Teddy Charles Tentet was more than just a recording unit and the group played a landmark concert at New York's Cooper Union in the spring of 1956...Throughout 1956, the Tentet performed at various concerts including one on April 27 at a New York junior high school on 93rd Street where bass giant Charles Mingus was part of the ensemble...On Saturday afternoon, July 7, the Tentet made a high profile appearance at the Newport Jazz Festival along with the Phineas Newborn Quartet and Friedrich Gulda's ensemble. The concert was later broadcast on the Voice of America...Gryce and tubist Don Butterfield were the only holdovers from the January recording session...But despite critical acclaim for both its recordings and live performances, especially the Newport appearance, the band had little commercial potential. Charles rebuffed any attempts to broaden the ensemble's appeal and opportunities for appearances dried up. By 1957, the Tentet was history, only occasionally revived in the years to come.

Edited by T.D.

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Didn't the Booker Little/Eric Dolphy Quintet that recorded at the 5 Spot play just that one gig?

And weren't the Booker Ervin groups with Alan Dawson, Jaki Byard, Richard Davis, and various variations on that lineup, weren't those all totally studio only?

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Does anyone know how much Andrew Hill played live in the 60’s? — and just as importantly, with whom?

just searched a little bit on newspapers.com, the only lineup I came up with is a quartet with Sam Rivers, Donald Garrett and Oliver Johnson that played the Both/And in May 1966

the_san_francisco_exadvj6f.jpg

this is from 21 April 1967:

the_morning_record_fr96kjd.jpg

and this is from three weeks earlier:

echoes_sentinel_thu__wrjka.jpg

Edited by Niko

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7 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Didn't the Booker Little/Eric Dolphy Quintet that recorded at the 5 Spot play just that one gig?

And weren't the Booker Ervin groups with Alan Dawson, Jaki Byard, Richard Davis, and various variations on that lineup, weren't those all totally studio only?

I think the Little/Dolphy 5 Spot band is an example of a one-off gig of a week or two that got recorded but the band never played together again on record or live. Sonny's "A Night at the Village Vanguard" is another example -- the trio with Wilbur Ware and Elvin Jones only existed for the Sunday night that got recorded.

I think the Booker Ervin Quartet you mention may well fit my original premise; that's particularly interesting in that it the group made multiple LPs. 

Another example is the Grant Green, Larry Young, Elvin Jones trio, which -- despite the thread I started earlier and references to Cuscuna and Coryell that came up -- may not have played any live gigs. (I traded messages with Michael about this is and, without getting into the weeds here, he can't completely confirm that the trio played live. 

5 hours ago, Niko said:

just searched a little bit on newspapers.com, the only lineup I came up with is a quartet with Sam Rivers, Donald Garrett and Oliver Johnson that played the Both/And in May 1966

the_san_francisco_exadvj6f.jpg

this is from 21 April 1967:

the_morning_record_fr96kjd.jpg

and this is from three weeks earlier:

echoes_sentinel_thu__wrjka.jpg

As it happens, I recently traded emails with the writer Mike West, who is doing research on Andrew Hill and was asking me about a gig Hill played in Ann Arbor in early 1967 that included Sam Rivers and a bassist and drummer he was still trying to confirm. 

6 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

I think the Little/Dolphy 5 Spot band is an example of a one-off gig of a week or two that got recorded but the band never played together again on record or live. Sonny's "A Night at the Village Vanguard" is another example -- the trio with Wilbur Ware and Elvin Jones only existed for the Sunday night that got recorded.

I think the Booker Ervin Quartet you mention may well fit my original premise; that's particularly interesting in that it the group made multiple LPs. 

Another example is the Grant Green, Larry Young, Elvin Jones trio, which -- despite the thread I started earlier and references to Cuscuna and Coryell that came up -- may not have played any live gigs. (I traded messages with Michael about this is and, without getting into the weeds here, he can't completely confirm that the trio played live. 

As it happens, I recently traded emails with the writer Mike West, who is doing research on Andrew Hill and was asking me about a gig Hill played in Ann Arbor in early 1967 that included Sam Rivers and a bassist and drummer he was still trying to confirm.  Returning to my original question, certainly Hill's recording bands in general in that era (Black Fire, Point of Departure, Judgement, etc.) did not exist outside the studio. 

 

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Recorded for later release?

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1 hour ago, Mark Stryker said:

I think the Little/Dolphy 5 Spot band is an example of a one-off gig of a week or two that got recorded but the band never played together again on record or live. Sonny's "A Night at the Village Vanguard" is another example -- the trio with Wilbur Ware and Elvin Jones only existed for the Sunday night that got recorded.

I think the Booker Ervin Quartet you mention may well fit my original premise; that's particularly interesting in that it the group made multiple LPs. 

Another example is the Grant Green, Larry Young, Elvin Jones trio, which -- despite the thread I started earlier and references to Cuscuna and Coryell that came up -- may not have played any live gigs. (I traded messages with Michael about this is and, without getting into the weeds here, he can't completely confirm that the trio played live. 

As it happens, I recently traded emails with the writer Mike West, who is doing research on Andrew Hill and was asking me about a gig Hill played in Ann Arbor in early 1967 that included Sam Rivers and a bassist and drummer he was still trying to confirm. 

 

The only thing I would add about the Rollins trio is that although the group composition changed, what was significant was Sonny's use of the piano-less trio, which he did maintain for quite a while (until the God-forsaken Fantasy years). As a matter of fact, the last pianist he hired just before this was Dick Katz, who was still bugged by it 30 years later; Dick loved playing with Sonny, and it was a great gig but, as he noted with some annoyance to me many years later "he was done with pianists."  At least for a while.

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Recorded for later release?

that caught my eye as well... re the bassist and drummer, apparently Hill went to San Francisco only with Rivers and hired a local b/dr team (Garrett/Johnson in that case), the journalist didn't think that was ideal even though he admitted that the second week was better

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Hill's music was not something to be easily negotiated by typical pickup groups.

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I guess Garrett/Johnson were one of the more interesting pickup groups... But still, no apparent traces of the west coast tour that was supposed to follow the Both/And gig... The review I found sounded a bit weird (the concert only got better when someone started to read Black Panther Promo material in an incomprehensible way behind the music, or something like that) will look it up tomorrow...

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Posted (edited)

Didn’t that Hill/Rivers gig end up with a fracas on stage?  Funnily enough on the one time I got to chat with Sam I mentioned that Band/gig with Hill and he certainly remembered it.

Edited by sidewinder

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