colinmce

Everyone is right. Impossible to have too much of this band.

In Japan, but not in any domestic reissue programs.

I'm very pleased to see the wonderful Alison Bechdel on there, too.

As usual, I am a bit slow and the conversation has progressed, but even so: I was halfway feeling, or at least understanding, Leeway's critique of Karl's original post. But the most recent elaboration squared me fully with what Karl is intending to get at and I'm on board. Without sounding too blunt about it, I think Tony is being overly reactionary. I don't think Karl is arguing what you think he is, or with the force you're implying. I don't see the ethos of "white victimization" anywhere in that post that puts it on par with the "Crow-Jim"/Stan Kenton pity party of the 50s. The point he's making-- and Bill Dixon is a perfect locus-- is that critics, the vast majority of them white, have (as per usual) constructed an absolutist, essentialist narrative that paints black and white over gray. I get that this is touchy, uncomfortable territory, but no less than Dixon and Anthony Braxton have spoken at great length about this, and both have been truly victimized by these narratives. Both have different artistic as well as tempermental orientations, but Braxton has said outright that the important contributions of white musicians like Marsh and Giuffre were under-recognized, and that history was in effect distorted. It is, of course, very easy to backslide into a less-nuanced interpretation that comes closer to what Leeway is seeing, but I don't get that at all from what Karl wrote. But they very fact that these things happened is worth noting. And I don't think this has to take away from the incredibly real strain of Black Arts that runs through the 1960s NYC avant garde scene. But we have to make something of Paul Bley, Burton Greene, Joseph Scianni, David Izenon, Paul Motian, Michael Mantler, Barry Altschul, Steve Lacy, et al. Tony accuses Karl of trying to apply "white-out", but that suggests erasing Black artists in favor of white, putting the onus of innovation on white players rather than Black. This is not the same as simply taking them into account. We have to pay heed to Bill Dixon and Anthony Braxton on this point. In sum, I think the problem being addressed is, in the end, a typical and predictable failure by critics to give due dilligence to the full story, which is always complex, in favor of a simpler suggestion. This is, as far as I can tell, the thrust of what Karl is getting at. Once we stray from this path and get to the personal experiences of individual white artists, especially vis-a-vis black artists, then I think this whole conversation gets a little more muddled. Strike that-- infinitely more muddled. The personal is always political, so it's hard to separate the two-- just ask AB-- but it can be done to some degree as far as this conversation goes. So I'll leave it saying I agree wholeheartedly that the typical narrative of free jazz in the US from the 50s up to the mid/late-60s AACM era is sorely lacking. (Post AACM, into the advent of European Free is, IMO, a whole other book).

So many cheap Amiga LPs on Discogs that I want but they're always from the Czech Republic-- exorbitant shipping and convoluted payment requirements. Such a shame.

I don't know Fujii, but this one has come well-recommended on this board, so I'm excited to hear it.

Out of funds for now but this one is a first priority along with the new Adasiewicz.

OK, thanks for the info. It makes perfect sense, but I guess I've just never heard that, certainly not by way of explanation re: Coltrane.

One thing that has always bugged and confused me is the doggedly common suggestion that Coltrane's terminal cancer was directly related to his drug and alcohol problems, problems that he kicked ten full years before his death. For the life of me I can never recall ever having heard a correlation between hard drug use and cancer, yet in most accounts of Coltrane's illness this link is made. There's a way in which dubious myths get passed on from one person to the next in jazz writing and this seems to be one of the more persistent of them. And it bothers me. Perhaps such a correlation does exist-- though when it comes to cancer, what link can't you make? But even so it seems odd that this is so accepted as a fact. I can't help but detect some shred of .... something. I don't necessarily want to say racism, but it just seems off. Thoughts?

Amazon has a 10/21 date.

It turns up in Kahil El'Zabar's music from time to time.

Seconded. The arrangements are pretty straightforwardly modern jazz/60s inside-outside (though Wooley is a far-above average melodist) but the soloing from both Wooley & Sinton is out of this world. "Shanda Lea 1", the short solo that opens (Put Your) Hands Together, is a truly seminal performance IMO. The convergence of technique and melody, heart and mind, heard in that piece is the kind of thing that certifies the man's brilliance.

Quite under-recognized music on this one. IMO one of the essential LPs from that time & place. (all this stuff is also on the expanded CD edition of the orignal New Wave of Jazz LP)

I hope not. I have to say I'm impressed they (she? Is it mostly Hazel Miller?) are putting stuff out still so consistently. The packaging on the newer titles is A+ to boot. I look forward to more, hopefully a reissue of the Harry Miller box.

Oh hell yeah. It's an awesome record. The 32jazz edition with the ridiculous 90s packaging is easy to find.

Was there ever a Japanese CD? My 32jazz issue makes my soul hurt.

Chicago has been flush with Cecil Taylor FMPs lately. I've had good luck swooping them up!

Yep. Side two of Components!

I got mine on Monday too.

The last time I listened to Compulsion! it kind of blew my mind. I didn't love it in the past but it sounded damn good. There was one little stretch that if heard in isolation could've easily passed as Brotzmann/Van Hove/Bennink ca. 1974. Much less cluttered and way more far out than I remembered.

That's my only point. This is why it's incredibly frustrating to try and make a point on the internet: either/or, if-this-then-that thinking. I said outright I like Jason Moran's music. I said this is not about him, but about press coverage, NPR in particular. I think Jason Moran is a very original player who's original music is very strong. And I bet this Fats Waller thing is just fine in its own way even if it's not my thing. What I'm saying is that projects like this are what gets the attention, not plain old music. Let's take Dave Douglas as an example, one of NPR's golden boys (again FYI, I think Dave Douglas is phenomenal). His album Be Still, which featured a vocalist, a hook about Celtic songs, and a backstory about Douglas' family got plenty of attention. His new project with Uri Cane which has some other sort of conceit about old song forms or whatever: also lavished with attention by NPR. The one in-between, a plain old book of music for his new quintet: not so interested all of a sudden. That's all I'm trying to get at here.

:tup :tup :tup

We'll see! I'm going to check the record out. I like her, but don't cotton to piano trios very much, so...

Huh. I haven't yet heard the new trio, but the reviewer at Point of Departure said the opposite: that Gress & Wolleson knew the music inside & out. FWIW, though, I've never been a big fan of Gress' playing. Don't know Wolleson.

The Oto disc is nice though the track listing switches the Quintet and the Sextet. I also want to hear the Matchless date. I bought Joe Maneri/Peter Dolger - Peace Concert