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You do have that one track they recorded together in Europe, in 1956?

i think that i've read that charlie parker did the exact same thing that you're describing as far as covering for the rhythm section confusion on the second version of 'rocker' (or possibly on lester leaps in?) from September 26, 1952 Rockland Palace Ballroom, New York. i haven't spotted that passage, but the researchers seem to agree. but on the 1950 show, lester doesn't seem to do it to cover for the rhythm section.

'jazz immortal series volume two' cd (savoy) live 4.2.50 chicago track 4 'lester's blues #2' (neenah) 3:08 check it out.

actually, i meant - recommend a jazz book that gives examples that kofsky's ideology is wrong, or at least partially wrong. i've read notes and tones, and i believe that i read only the beginning of the hawes book (although i'm not positive about the hawes). are the musicians in notes and tones bragging about how well they were treated by the jazz business world? as for kofsky being extreme, we really don't know that he is. instead of your take on kofsky, i would prefer opinions from black jazz musicians from the 60's/70's who are still alive. let's email ornette. or there must be published interviews where musicians are asked about kofsky's books. btw, rahsaan roland kirk talked a lot during concerts, sometimes for 5-10min between tunes. his ideas about some of these subjects do not make kofsky seem like an extremist at all. and kirk's opinion is much more important to me than kofsky's. so, if you want to blame my taking 'inflammatory rhetoric at face value' on anyone, then i'd prefer the main source. "it's still plantation earth" RRK - circa 1974/75. see you in the politics forum. i'm there all the time.

i am not interested in kofsky's political stance. i like his writing/reporting because i rarely see those subjects discussed as openly, and with apparantly good research in other jazz books. and don't worry, my music collection is not based on kofsky's taste in music. it seems that you misunderstand, maybe because your life/work has a lot to do with politics - if your signature is correct. not everybody is interested in politics. and i don't see anything radical about treating the jazz musicians fairly. and you keep recommending books about blacks in prison, black power, marxism, etc. recommend a book about black jazz music.

maybe when you were 16 you weren't mature enough for kofsky's books. kofsky is respected by many people who are not 16. there are a lot of truths/information about the business side of jazz in those books. as for the books that you 'recommend', i googled them, and they have nothing to do with jazz. but thanks for your deep thoughts. >> FK's interview of Coltrane is worth listening to but it ought not be too hard to guess who comes off best there. >>> you mean that coltrane comes off better than kofsky? i don't understand your point.

i don't know if it helps, but here is an entry from an unpublished kirk discography. although, when i got the fairly recent cd version of 'oh yeah' with all the kirk tunes, it was not listed here. the entry may have been corrected since then. Charles Mingus Jazz Workshop 61 1106 November 6, 1961 Atlantic Recording Studios New York, NY Monday Charles Mingus p, voc; Jimmy Knepper tb; Roland Kirk ts, mz, st, fl, siren; Booker Ervin ts; Doug Watkins b; Dannie Richmond dr; band voc a. 5756 Devil Woman (CM voc) 9:38 Atlantic 1377 / SD1377 b. 5757 Ecclusiastics (CM voc) 6:55 -- c. 5758 “Old” Blues For Walt's Torin 7:59 Atlantic 1416 / SD1416 d. 5759 Peggy's Blue Skylight 9:42 -- e. 5760 Hog Callin' Blues 7:26 Atlantic 1377 / SD1377 f. 5761 Oh Lord, Don't Let Them Drop That Atomic Bomb On Me (CM voc) 5:38 -- g. 5762 Passions Of A Man (CM voc) 4:52 - h. 5763 Wham Bam Thank You Ma’am 4:41 i. 5764 Body And Soul unissued j. 5765 Invisible Lady 4:49 Atlantic 1416 / SD1416 k. 5766 Eat That Chicken (CM voc, band voc) 4:36 Atlantic 1377 / SD 1377 l. 5767 Nuts unissued m. 5768 Unidentified -- Notes: a. RK takes the first ts solo and Booker Ervin the second. b. c. e. f. j. k. All sax solos are by RK. c. Length of title incorrectly shown as 8:59 on issues. d. Booker Ervin is the ts soloist after the ensemble and before the piano solo. h. Booker Ervin is the ts soloist. i. l. m. It is believed that these 3 tracks were destroyed in the Atlantic vault fire in Long Branch, NJ 1976. (refer to: http://www.bluenote.com/bulletinboard/ubb-...4&t=000229&p=2) j. Only one ts is present, Booker Ervin, RK is out? Issues: a. b. e. f. g. h. k. Atlantic 1377 = Atlantic SD 1377 = Atlantic 1377 (rtr) = Atlantic 7 90667-1 = Atlantic 7 90667-2 (cd) = Atlantic 7 90667-4 (cs) = Atlantic/Rhino SD1377 = Atlantic/Rhino (D) 8122-75359-2 (cd) = Atlantic (D) 7 90667 1 = Atlantic (D) 7 90667 2 (cd) = Atlantic (F) 332051 = Atlantic (F) 40387 = London /Atlantic (GB) HA K 8007 = London/Atlantic (GB) SH K 8007 = Warner Pioneer/Atlantic (J) P-4544A = Atlantic (J) P 6016 = Atlantic (J) P 7557 A = Atlantic (J) AMCY 1038 = Silen (RU) SI-1603 (cd) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS OH YEAH c. d. j. Atlantic 1416 = Atlantic SD 1416 = Atlantic 1416 (rtr) = Atlantic/Rhino SD 1416 = LABEL M 495723 (cd) = Atlantic (D) SD 1416 = Atlantic (D) 7567-80793-2 (cd) = Atlantic (F) 412012 = Atlantic (GB) ATL 5019 = Atlantic (GB) SAL 5019 = Atlantic (J) CSJ 829 = Atlantic (J) AMCY-1206 (cd) = Silen (RU) SI-1603 (cd) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS TONIGHT AT NOON a. b. c. d. e. f. g. h. j. k. Also on Atlantic/Rhino R2 75589 (cd) = Atlantic/Rhino (J) AMCY-1249 (cd) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS OH YEAH a. Also on Atl Supraphon (CZH) 110212 1 Titled: CHARLES MINGUS PASIJE CLOVEKA a. b. c. d. e. f .g .h .j. k. Also on Atlatntic/Rhino R2-72871(cd) = Atlantic/Rhino (GB) K 8122 72871 2 (cd) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS PASSIONS OF A MAN THE COMPLETE ATLANTIC RECORDINGS 1956 - 1961 a. b. e. f. g. h. k. Also on WEA (D) WE 240717 (4 lp box set) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS CHARLES MINGUS a. b. e. f. g. h. k. Also on Lucky Navigator (RU) (cdrom) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS Note: This cdrom includes 10 Charles Mingus lps, including OH YEAH, from 1956 –1977. The picture displayed is Atlantic 7 90667-2 (cd). Refer to www.cdboom.com and eBay 337557782. a. g. h. Also on Atlantic SD3 600 = Atlantic CS3 600 (cs) = Atlantic (D) 60 143 = Atlantic (F) WE 313 Titled: CHARLES MINGUS PASSIONS OF A MAN AN ANTHOLOGY OF HIS ATLANTIC RECORDINGS b. e. g. h. k. Also on Atlantic SD 2 302 = Atlantic ATL TP-2-302 (8tk) = Atlantic (D) 60 039 = Atlantic (F) 60 039 = Atlantic (GB) K 50232 = Atlantic (J) P 4505/6A Titled: CHARLES MINGUS THE ART OF CHARLES MINGUS / THE ATLANTIC YEARS b. Also on Atlantic/Rhino R2 71402 (cd) Titled: CHARLIE MINGUS ANTHOLOGY: THIRTEEN PICTURES b. Also on Atlantic/Rhino R2-71554 (cd) = Atlantic/Rhino (D) 8122 71554 2 (cd) Titled: ATLANTIC JAZZ/BEST OF THE ‘60S VOL.1 (var.) b. g. h. Also on Atlantic/Rhino R2-79988 (cd) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS THE VERY BEST OF CHARLES MINGUS d. h. Also on Warner Jazz (D) 9548-35819-2 (cd) CHARLES MINGUS CHARLES MINGUS d. k. Also on Columbia/Legacy CK 61448 (cd) Titled: CHARLES MINGUS KEN BURNS JAZZ e. k. Also on Atlantic SD1555 = Atlantic M 51555 (cs) = Atlantic (F) 40392 Titled: CHARLES MINGUS THE BEST OF CHARLES MINGUS e. k. Also on Atlantic SD 2 506 Titled: ? f. Also on Atlantic (D) 20052 Titled: THE 25 ATLANTIC YEARS – BLUES 'N' JAZZ (var.) h. Also on Atlantic/Rhino R2 71406 (cd) = Atlantic/Rhino (D) 8122 71406 2 (cd) Titled: RAHSAAN ROLAND KIRK ANTHOLOGY DOES YOUR HOUSE HAVE LIONS h. Also on WEA BHM-01 (cd) Titled: THE RHTYHM OF HISTORY: CELEBRATING BLACK HISTORY MONTH 2001 (var.) h. Also on Time Life Music R612-05 314560538-2 / 72435-31636-2-4 (cd) Titled: CLASSICJAZZ THE SIXTIES (var.) h. Also on Flashback R2-79896 (cd) = Flashback R4-79896 (cs) Titled: HOT SAX, COOL JAZZ (var.) k. Also on Atlantic (D) 60095 Titled: BLUES JUBILEE (var.) k. Also on Atlantic/Rhino R2 71727 (cd) Titled: ATLANTIC JAZZ BEST OF THE ‘60S, VOLUME 2 (var.)

All these un-reliable sources.

if you mean determined by jimihendrix.com on the notes to the box set, their info is not always correct. and then what about the 20min 'fuzzy guitar jam' (not the 15min Duane Hitchings jam) is that with young?

if you mean determined by jimihendrix.com on the notes to the box set, their info is not always correct.

santana is a guy who's been trying to break into jazz since like 1970. but no one's taking him seriously in that area of music (and rightfully so). the lotus tour had leon thomas on vocals, but his participation is not documented on the lotus lp/cd. evidently he sang pharoah's creator/plan on the tour. all that said, lotus is a great santana cd, if you're into that kind of music.

bach. but you may want to check out his viola, and oboe sonatas, some of which he arranged from his flute sonatas, and vise versa.

i think it's in that book that thiele states that the tunes for coltrane's 'ballads' album were all done in one take. why would he blatantly lie to us like that. and as kofsky points out, why is he putting himself on the photos of the albums. him and coltrane, deep in thought about what to write next...

anybody have a bunch of obscure paul robeson for trade? thanks

"Excited because its on Uptown"??? What the fuck is that? Who the fuck has said that?? People are excited because, as described by Jim in the first post of this thread, this is a never-before heard performance that is, if those who have heard it are to be believed, amazing. Can you say the same thing about the Philology releases?

you're hurting my feelings.

btw, when i say that those jams are unissued, i mean not officially issued. they're available on bootlegs. just find a hendrix collector. most of them have this stuff.

in defence of their leaving, there were enough discographical mistakes on some of those trees, that these people really were not up to the task. the 70's tree gave 2 copies of 6/11/75 bottom line as two different shows. on the 'odds and ends' cd, the 'unknown 20min' was never resolved by them to actually be from 3-6-70 fillmore. and when one of the names at that link above sent a wrong cd to me on a trade, he gave a huge paragraph of explanations, basically blaming it on the bootleggers, when all he did is dub a wrong cd. he wouldn't admit to it though. and the 'i know it all' michael mclaughlin guy who contributed a lot of recordings to the trees really doesn't know shit about discographies. probably doesn't know the location of losin's miles discography link.

lawrence of newark is *the* larry young album to have. there is another item that may be overlooked. on hendrix '9 to the universe' lp, released circa 1980, there is a 1969 jam called 'young/hendrix' (produced by alan douglas - so, he did do some good things). anyway, even though the tune is edited from 13m down to 10m, there is remarkable interplay between young and hendrix on this jam. like two people who've played together for years. it also shows a serious jazz side of hendrix, which we would have seen more of, had he not choked. they released another jam from this session (i believe the title is "it's too bad") on a 4 cd hendrix box, but that one is not very exciting. and there is a 3rd unreleased tune from the session. it's called 'world traveler'. that one is quite good also. and last, but not least, there is a 20min jam that is pretty outrageous, goes through a lot of changes. but the 'young/hendrix' jam gives us what is probably the best glimpse into a lot of avenues that could have happened with hendrix and jazz. a quote from one of miles' sidemen: "the band of gypsys album traumatized miles".

this is the best grant green that i have (i only have green in trio and piano settings). be sure to get the bonus track 'deep river'.

a session of shepp doing ellington tunes. that's some radical jazz listening. at least you have the right shepp decade. but i'm sure that's just a coincidence.

what sucks about the wes verve/a&m years is that he recorded in the same studio, at the same time with the orchestras. if he'd recorded with his rhythm section, and then the orchestra was overdubbed afterwards, then we would probably have a box set by now of wes' verve/a&m recordings without the orchestra. it's a catastrophy. those orchestra arrangements are rarely anything less than obnoxious. have to fastforward to wes' solos on practically every track.

http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx?s=560218 there is a new entry on losin's site. 35min. someone said that it's on easytree, but i couldn't find it.

a good guess would be that it's the peacock alley, st. louis material. that stuff never was officially released.

but just in case, you should consider releasing more of chet "i have no talent, but the white boys like me cause i look good on the album covers" baker.