Big Beat Steve

What are you out for? Asking where to get those sets or just plugging your seller? If there is one who has ("does have them") what you are after ("Is there some"...), then I wonder what you REALLY are after.

He may not really be remembered much for his jazz background because he did lots of MOR pop stuff (even his big band wasn't very jazz-inclined most of the time) but in this he was typical of many musicians during that era. But he did do important things in 50s post-war jazz in Germany and had jazz chops on the piano if he wanted to make use of them. I remember a radio show in the early 80s featuring recordings from the NDR archives that never were released commercially anywhere. Part of the program were mid-50s piano duos of Paul Kuhn and Bengt Hallberg - quite an ear-opener. Would love to hear them again. RIP

Agreed. I figure their approach is "If you do it at all, do it right, cover it in depth, go the whole way". Understandable IMO, because if you cover an extreme "special-interest" subject like this, then those who would want to buy it probably won't go for something that has gaps by definition. And wouldn't this already be the case if you cut things in half (as sugested here). Besides, a "Best Of" compilation is available as a taster anyway. And like you said, would those really interested in this go keep up with a set of maybe 20 two-CD sets individually? (Which may not be any cheaper to produce, BTW) But given the overall scope (44 CDs plus two huge books for 499 europs), this adds up to how much per individual CD? Probably less than 10 euros apiece, considering what a decent book on such a specialist subject would go for. Does Mosaic charge less on average for their individual CDs in a box set? I agree it is big money but what could be the bone of contention about the price? If you consider the Bear Family label policy (like it has always been - and here the price per CD is only two thirds of that of an individual Bear Family CD, which is a price cut you won't always find in their other box sets), it couldn't possibly be the individual price per CD but only the question of whether anybody would jump THAT deeply into such a specific subject in ONE go. I for one won't take the plunge but I realize that it's not the fault of the product but of my insufficient interest in this subject matter that would warrant jumping in THAT deeply. A compilation on such special-interest music like it has been done by the Old Hat label (or maybe the 3-CD set linked to above) would be something else ... So no complaints on my part.

Yes. You had to think about what you wanted to "say," the trajectory of the music within 47 minutes (the length of a side of a 90-minute tape). You had to gauge the gaps between the tracks, adjust the recording levels for each track...it's analogous (sorry) to writing a letter on paper vs. on a computer. It's difficult to erase, you can't really go back once you've started... And there was the plus side, where you really got caught up in the creative act of putting the tape together, making the music flow. For a non-musician, it was as close as we could come to actually making music. +1 :tup My thoughts exactly. Can't even recall how often I stopped in the middle of recording a track and wound back to the previous gap, recording another track instead which I felt suited the flow of the music better after all. Just bcause upon listening to the individual tracks while recording them I found the originally planned sequence didn't quite provide the flow I had figured it would. A bit like a DJ experimenting with tracks beforehand to set up the outlines of a projected playlist.

Very nice. Thanks for linking this!

Hee heee ... That kind of invitation is known from Facebook. A strict no-go.

Good luck, then, with your search. I am afraid, though, you will have to live with the assumption that it is not totaly unlikely that the original pressing run of those LPs has vanished from the market for good because maybe there are diehard Trane adulators somewhere out there among the jazz record hoarding fraternity who otherwise might uphold high moral standards of "no-no-ing the bad bootleggers" much like it was done here in this thread too yet among their vinyl shrine of Traneabilia there happen to sit these two Oberon LPs too ("because after all it is the only way of being able to listen to those utterly formative performances of my dearly beloved 'Trane!" ... ) Can we prove that there are such characters? No. But I'd bet you a nickel that there are some somewhere out there if you somehow manage to look close enough ... BTW, lest somebody twists this statement around: I am defintely NOT implying this applies to those who spoke out against shady releases here in THIS thread but we all know this "condoning bootlegs or not" discussion affects many more people in many areas of the collecting hobby.

Are you really sure it was meant for this rule to extend to items that have been OOP for DECADES? And would you be willing to have the same rules enforced for those currently IN-PRINT items that would have to be considered bootlegs by U.S. copyright standards when sold to U.S. (potential) buyers, particularly if marketed by U.S. retailers? All of them, not just "Andorrans"?

But it's not even a link because nobody put one up for sale anywhere. And again - this is a secondhand affair. Any secondhand LP (legal or not) is outside the reach of any legal matter because the NEW-item sale (that enforceably would have been subject to royalties) has been concluded jezz knows how many decades ago. I dont even think Jim would worry unduly about THIS isolated aspect but it rather seems to me a dead horse is being ridden here.

Besides, whatever pressing runs these Oberon LPS ever made it to, those NEW-LP quantities no doubt were sold off in total long, long ago. So whatever "royalty infringement" damage (if any) might have been done, that's all a thing of the (fairly distant) past by now. Wherever a copy of these LPs (or others like this) changes hands today, we are talking about a second-hand (or third or fourth-hand) deal that would not be subject to any additional royalty payments anywhere anymore anyway.

Spot-on. I agree with Rooster_Ties too. Seems to me like the bone of contention in this particular case it that it is TRANE. Like Colinmce said, if it was some Boris Rose (or similar) 70s/early 80s aircheck LP by one of the swing-era big bands , nobody but REALLY nobody would give a hoot. That said, I admit I've been on the lookout for the Oberon LPs too (though not with much determination and perseverance). BTW, both LPs made it into a review in the All Music Guide (printed copy, 2nd. ed.) and I don't recall this book having to be retracted for endorsing illegal products. So, please ... take it easy, folks, hey? BTW, what if Oberon turned out to be a European affair? (Just thinking aloud ...)

"So we know where to send da boys round" ?? :g

Sounds good. Thanks for that assessment.

Larry Did you read the Carl Woideck book on Parker? Yes. I recall feeling that it was solid but not quite as much so as the Priestley book. In particular, and I'm relying on imperfect memory here, Woideck, who certainly knows what's afoot musically, has the problem of a good many such writers (on jazz or any music) of essentially pointing to/explaining -- in musical notation and in words that more or less paraphrase what's notated -- things that one can already hear, and then he pretty much stops at the point, as though the job were done. Priestley by contrast, at his best, succeeds at/makes a good attempt at detecting underlying principles that are at work and their possible implications as well. I guess what I'm saying is that Woideck is more or less a musicologist, and Priestley is a musically well-versed critic. Not my favorite critic -- among those would be Jack Cooke, Terry Martin, John Litweiler, the late Michael James, and the professionally irascible Max Harrison on one of his good days, but Priestley has some of the virtues (e.g. the understanding that one is running alongside a living art that, in Val Wilmer's phrase, is "as important as your life") of the old Jazz Monthly crowd -- to which he and the others I've mentioned (except for Litweiler) all belonged at one time or another. Thanks for this evaluation. I had totally forgotten I own the Woideck book. Apparently I put it aside shortly after having bought it. Took it out again now and got to say, it is bound to be short on biographical details. About 50 pages of bio plus about 200 pages of musical analysis is a bit of a mismatch unless you are a musician or a recording nitpicker. Seems like the Chuck Haddix book has a similarly strong focus on the analysis of the music, or am I wrong? I also have Ken Vail's "Bird's Diary" but this outlines just the very BARE FACTS and dates after all. While I can do without the Ross Russell "embellishments" there must be more to Bird's personality and STORY. Will Priestley still cover this sufficiently by today's state of knowledge or will one have to go for one that - by all accounts here - might turn out to be more like "Stanley Crouch writes about Stanley Crouch writing about Bird"?

Please, Fer. Don't get him on that track. It seems Allen had that idea originally for the blues book but things worked out better for a printed version somehow (to my VERY great relief - though admittedly that's only me. ). At any rate, I'll be looking forward for them, Allen, so please keep us posted when they will actually be ready for shipment. In the meantime I'll free up some space on my (already overcrowded) music book shelves.

Are you sure these German beers you taste in the US taste like the ones they dispense in Munich? Or is it just wishful thinking? Am no expert on the matter but have heard very often (from seasoned beer drinkers) that US "Lowenbrau", for example, nowhere resembles the "LÖWENBRÄU" real thing from Bavaria. So would things be guaranteed to be all that different for other Bavarian brands? Where is Weizy, BTW?

See, that's one of those things ... I never got into those games (just not my cup ...) and the one time I followed one a bit closer I very fast got the distinct impression things were running in circles. Probably a case of instant boredom and even dislike - just like those album cover threads touch a sore spot with a few forumists here, it seems... "To each his own ..." ( a song idolized to death on that other (big band) board , incidentally)

Good to hear that. Enjoyed his contributions both at AAJ and on a Big Band bulletin board I frequented for a while but gave up after some time as there just were way too many "nostalgia oldie sentimentalists" there.

Didn't know she died. This is a major loss. I read her posts with great interest when I checked out the AAJ forum passably regularly around late 2006-2008/9. Her contributions towered sky-high above most of the rest of the posts abut the history of jazz there IMO (I am afraid Fran, another one who had lots of knowledge and experience over there, probably no longer is around either - IIRC he already was an adult at the end of WWII). Wonder if Chris A aka Christiern still lurks there. But as for the rest - see my earlier post. Just my 2c and not intended to slight those who like to hang out there but just to put things into perspective.

A forum that bans Chuck Nessa ... why should one go (back) there? I for one had signed up there at about the time I signed up at Organissimo and read and posted there occasionally for a while. But after a while I found it utterly pointless. One the one hand, the forum may be fine for musicians and those who are near live events in various regions of the USA (and to whom the discussions of "home region heros" would mean something, as opposed to overseas readers), but beyond that? How many start-from-scratch NEWBIE "I've heard a tune on the radio, recommend me tons that are like that" or "I gotta do a high schol paper, tell me what to write" threads do you need? And even at that time back then when I still lurked there off and on, the comparatively small number of threads that I found led to constructive and interesting (if sometimes controversial) exchanges of ideas there seemed to lead to irritating cases of banning of forumists (and I remember at least one forumist whose typical posts I for one certainly did not find "below the belt" - in fact he did manage to put in good arguments for his positions IMHO but must have been at odds with what probably was "jazz-politically correct" to be said in a forum). I haven't missed that place for years, sorry to put it that bluntly.

An other subscriber-only link. Not much use as it is, sorry.

Can't tell you specifically for today's jazz artists but from what I've witnessed in other musical genres (niche markets where musicians/bands marketing their own CDs do exist) it's a definite YES. The calculation is easy: The price the musicians/bands sell their own CDs for is not very much below what the CDs go for via the usual outlets, but "avoiding the middleman" (or rather the middleMEN) makes all the difference.

At any rate it will be interesting to hear about any concrete expericence by forumists bcause this seller also is the only one who has this item listed on German Amazon.

:D

A point that cannot be made often enough, particularly the underlined section. Yes, the JATP 10-CD set is Italian too. When I first read about that Brownie box, my first thought was "Another case like that JATP set?". I have a lot of that Brownie EmArcy stuff on vinyl but might well spring for that box, given its completemness and affordability ...