Big Beat Steve

Thanks, Hans, honored to appear on your blog - on the one hand ... But on the other, I did not intend to diss the late Dieter Zimmerle in a big way outside this forum; sadly it remains that even the European jazz world of the 50s was stuck in a widespread incomprehension of almost any form of jazz that was presented in a truly extrovert manner to be enjoyed by the public in a very basic, outward, no-fuss way without any high-brow artistic pretenses. And this was particularly evident in Germany at that time. (Lack of real awareness of what had been happening during the Swing era - when most Germans were cut off from developments during the Nazi era - and where bands like Hampton's came from certainly played a role in this). But seeing how the Dutch press and the authorities reacted, we weren't the only country thus affected, it seems. The funny thing is that if you look at all this it actually is oddball characters of jazz journalism such as Hugues Panassié (whose view of the jazz world was VERY skewed in a lot of other ways) who grasped this elementary appeal of swing far better than many of his colleagues who in other respects had a much more balanced view of the development and variety of jazz.

Thanks for those details, I guess I'll give them a shot with my next round of online orders. They have very good prices on items from the Jazz Oracle label. With all items listed as being in print on the Jazz Oracle website itself, there should not be an "OOP problem".

Good to hear Caiman does try to honor its orders from Europe in a big way. My reason for asking was this: If (as it is) all too many seem to be complaining that Caiman will list items at an attractive giveaway price but will not go out of their way to actually sell them at that price if it means they have to track down an item that is not available literally everywhere, then could it be that they will also list lots of items but might not possibly make every effort to ship them overseas if the flat shipping rate as per Amazon rules might not cover shipping expenses fully? A bad rep goes a long way, you know ... And of course 3 euros will get you more dollars these days but still it isn't that much, and overseas USPS shipping rates have gone up considerably in recent months again so the exchange advantage is offset somewhat. However, if you are saying there is no need to worry about buying from Caiman overseas, then all the better ...

Thanks for your impressions. Hope this also applies to fairly obscure collector labels (where the CD is listed on that label's website). As for Amazon.de buyers outside Germany they might of course be better off with buying from their own Amazon branch (if one exists for their countries, e.g. Amazon.fr).

A question to European (especiall Continental European) forum members who use Caiman through Amazon: Amazon Seller rules say a fixed shipping charge of 3 euros is charged per each CD. Now this could not nearly cover shipping costs from the USA to Europe (even if you combine several CD's). How are your experiences with order fulfillment under these circumstances when you try to buy from U.S. Amazon sellers (Camian, Moviemars or whoever...)? Given the often fairly low prices of Caiman etc., how likely is it that they will actually fulfill the orders to Continental European customers anyway?

I'd venture a guess that some around here will suggest you might want to start a list of overlooked C&W artists (including the stylistic offshoots of country music;)) there if you go on with artists like this.

On the contrary, he is NOT overlooked, and therefore not here. OK, point taken - though apparently the question of "overlooked or not" really is a matter of debate (and of personal tastes). Paul's list is an interesting one but if I stick with your reasoning I'd say that GUITAR SLIM (including his Atlantic recordings), J.B. LENOIR's Parrot sessions (true classics!) and TARHEEL SLIM are not exactly overlooked either if you approach blues from the R&B end of the spectrum. Of course, if you are mainly into folk blues/field recordings or contemporary modern blues then it's a different matter altogether but there you are with personal tastes ... ;)

Same here. I have about 15 of them (though sometimes in different packaging, but essentially same contents), mostly the "earlier" recordings from your list, but as Tommy said - you could go on and on and always come with yet more items worth listening to according to YOUR tastes.

Nice list(s), but - WHAT? No mention of Hound Dog Taylor anywhere?? Is he THAT overlooked?

One or two DISCS? By original issue format, or what? :D That wouldn't leave many tracks .... No, seriously, mine would still be the DIAL masters (select your pressing and format; even one single CD can hold a lot of music ...). Condensed statements of the times. Runner up would be the SAVOY masters (as on that Savoy twofer reissued in the late 70s) - for the very same reasons, obviously.

I agree, but if it ever should materialize then count me in as a taker.

Yes, a really interesting list. Am pleased to see I already have quite a few of those that (stylistically speaking) fall within my main areas of jazz interest, and I agree that the Vanguards are worth exploring more. Funny to see that "Witches, Goblins etc." by Sadik Hakim making the list. For quite a long time this record (in fact, MULTIPLE copies of it) occupied the "H" bin of my favorite local jazz record shop whenever I checked this bin for Al Haig and Hampton Hawes LP's I was searching for. Seems like somebody overstocked on this item and NEVER managed to shift it. Maybe I ought to have grabbed a copy ... ? Noted this one in the list which sounds really interesting: Jimmy Gourley: The West Bank of New York (Uptown) I've quite a few sideman recordings (mostly French) by Jimmy Gourley but have never heard of this one. The Uptown label sounds like quality. Any details, comments on that? And yes, Paul, PLEASE DO A BLUES LIST!

Maybe I was actually thinking of your interview. At any rate, an interview with Ms. Morgan (probably yours) was the subject of another (more detailed) thread here a while back. What I meant to hint at is that a statement to the efffect of "I was there, and yes, he was shot" (which to me somehow seemed to be the gist of what that eyewitness quoted in the original blog had to say) doesn't shed too much new light on all this.

Hasn't this subject been discussed here some time ago (in connection with Ed van der Elsken's book?) Anyway, great newsreel footage, and BTW, the reprint of Ed's book is really fine too (and very affordable at 20 euros). The bewilderment and disgust of the Dutch press about those Hampton tours wasn't an isolated case. Even German, French and Swedish JAZZ mags were somewhat reserved about the "musical value" of the stage shows of those Hampton tours. In fact (and I am sorry to say this) the German jazz mag "Jazz Podium" really outdid itself in complete incomprehension as they constantly categorized the live shows of Lionel Hampton's big band as "nothing but rock'n'roll", etc. Thankfully they refrained from referring to "jungle noises", etc. as the day press would be apt to do, but clearly this part of danceable, gutsy, down-to-earth jazz was out of reach even for noted German jazz writer celebs such as Dieter Zimmerle, editor and long-time German jazz publicist. Apparently over here they all were on a firm "how-to-make-jazz-as-respectable-as-classical-music" kick in the 50s. Laughable if you look at it today, and not one of the finer publicistic hours of Dieter Zimmerle. "Jazz Hot" from France and the Swedish jazz mags clearly were much more in tune with the subject they were supposed to cover, as the mags gave a much fairer appraisal of the music, though they had their reservations about the "show" side of the concerts too and complained about the unruly behavior of part of the audience. Anyway, I find all of the live recordings from the 1953, 1954, and 1956 European tours highly enjoyable. (Not that I would overlook the studio recordings the Hamp did in France and Germany during those tours, though ...) BTW, the "saxophonist" lying on the floor in that video footage in your blog is Eddie Chamblee.

This should be the material that was on that Savoy twofer LP reissued under Howard McGhee's name. A trouble-laden tour featuring an irascible Oscar Pettiford, according to the liner notes. BTW, check your record collection, MG - you might have heard Rudy Williams before. He was featured heavily with Al Cooper's Savoy Sultans of the late 30s.

Have about 7 or 8 from the complete list, but agree with Ken Dryden and John L. I cannot see the point of making up such lists (however broadminded they may be) as personal tastes just differ WIDELY and nobody who comes up with such selective lists can possibly expect to really strike a chord with other listeners with different (however broadminded) tastes. And if I ever were to be stranded on some lonely island with nothing but a stack of records for my entertainment I'd certainly feel harrassed (if not to say terrorized) if forcibly exposed to free(er) jazz by likes of Ayler and Mangelsdorff et al. :D So what's the point? "Suggested listening" lists subdivided at least loosely by genre - O.K., but generalistic lists such as this?? I dunno ...

I'll leave the dissecting of this blog entry to Lee Morgan fans and worshippers but what I find strange about this latest spot are two things: - What new info does this statement you quoted actually offer? Besides, I seem to remember Lee Morgan's wife has been interviewed more than once before her death (this was the subject of another thread here quite some time ago). - I don't feel Lee Morgan's death has been that much overlooked, passed by, neglected or ignored. The investigations into his end seem to be fairly numerous, it seems to me as a casual onlooker in matters Morgan. If there is a death of a major jazzman that's been investigated insufficiently it's the death of Wardell Gray.

I am not sure if I've got Epistrophy's intents right, but it definitely is far, far easier today to accumulate a massive archive of recordings and/or complementary information of oyur favorite music. Two things have helped this immensely: 1) The arrival of the CD when many labels started to reissue items from the past in a much more coherent form, giving due regard to the "completists" in many respects (Chronological Classics, Mosaic, Bear Family, Proper, etc. etc.). If you are prepared to dump your vinyl (I'm NOT! and older CD's you can get everything with far less duplications and overlaps than you used to be able to back in the vinyl days. I'd say the reissue market has really been pretty good since the late 60s/early 70s but it took more searching, you got more overlaps and were left with more gaps of items never reissued, but at the same time it all was much more interesting and you tended to value your prized finds much, much more than you would today when it is just a matter of asking "When is the next Volume of the collected works of artists XYZ going to hit the market?" In a way, collecting has changed from searching, tracking down and finally finding (and jumping with joy about your finds) to a bookkeeper's attitude of buying streamlined products as they fall of the assembly line. 2) The Internet, of course. Over the past 10 years I've multiplied my own jazz mag and book archives as a lot of items (especially from abroad and overseas) became accessible that would have taken much longer and needed much more correspondence to track down in pre-internet days at all. This is a fine way to extend your knowledge, and yet sometimes it makes you smile .... Just take note when reading those old 50s jazz mags - sometimes you just can't help wondering how the experts and diehard collectors of those days managed to cope with their comparatively limited knowledge and resources; in some respects (e.g. in the discographical and biographical field) anybody who'd venture out today with the level of knowledge even the more erudite ones had back then would certainly be advised to get his act together and do his homework. If only the problem of limited funds weren't a permanent one ...

Crocojazz is nice but overpriced (especially for vinyl) IMHO. Paris Jazz Corner has a far wider selection, and Jussieu Jazz (all actually not too far from each other; within walking distance if you can read your map of Paris) ain't too bad either for CD's. And then there is the record/CD branch of Joseph Gibert (good secondhand CD section but a horrible mess of NON-order). If Brownie peeks in here again sometime he might be able to give you leads for your enxt visit to Paris. I was in the Virgin store on Champs Eleysees once last year but wasn't exactly overwhelmed. But some FNAC branches indeed have a pretty good CD jazz/blues section. But overall things are slowly going downhill there too. Prices keep going up, and more and more collector CD labels just cannot be found anywhere anymore. Seems like the shops just don't bother stocking them anymore if the margins aren't big enough.

Not weird at all, just obscure. I've had the VSOP repro reissue of the Rave LP for a number of years. This was a 1957 recording issued in between his Contemoprary and RCA Victor dates. According to the discographies this record (on Rave 101) was reissued on Tampa 35. Looking at your LP, I guess when Tampa secured the rights to this they also obtained a batch of unsold Rave pressings and marketed them as their own by just slapping their label sticker on it. Who knows ... might have happened with others too (Tampa reissuing recordings originally issued on Skylark, for example).

Nothing to add to the last 2 posts by JSngy. Seems we haven't really been in disagreement all along. As for some artists being "wired differently": Sure, and I don't think anybody will hold the way Bud Powell, for example, was "wired" against him (it more invites pity and sympathy by those who've been equipped better by nature to handle everyday life) but there is a HUUUUUGE difference between minds like Bud's (or momentary lapses in acknowledging the needs of others) and other artists who, while creating great art, actively and by their very own decisions and acts continuously treated their fellow human beings if not like shit, then certainly like lesser beings. And when a certain limit is exceeded there just is no excuse for that (and I don't think it always is a matter of "choosing to accept or reject" the reasons why one does things "that are bad". Some acts can only be rejected as long as there is a canon of commonly accepted standards of how to get along with each other).

Hey, gents, did it ever occur to you that English is not the mother language of everybody on this board? I'd venture a guess Durium meant to say Lee was "a bit past his zenith" (past his prime) by that time. In fact, reading the Dutch version I am pretty sure that's what it is. Debate open now regarding the relative merits of this latter-day opus of Mr Cool.

Exactly ... that's what I was hinting at all along. Thanks for summarizing it very much to the point, Bev.

Agree with what Seeline said. No matter how great somebody is as an artist, there is no excuse for mistreating or taking advantage of your fellow human beings. Even to artists the same rules apply as, say, to accountants (cf. JSngry or managers of multinational companies or ... you name it. Some (most, in fact, I guess) get away with it, but those who don't have had it coming to them. At any rate, I don't buy into this "a creative artist has to have severe personal shortcomings outside his artistic world in order to allow his artistry to unfold and every excuse is acceptable for this as long he is an artist of some stature and/or achievement". Artists are subject to the same overall rules that apply (or ought to apply) to everybody else. If you look back into the past century of popular music, there have been numerous artists (including jazz musicians) whose careers have faltered not least of all because they acquired a notoriety for being "difficult to handle", unreliable, untrustworthy, cheating on their fellow musicians, or even committing criminal offenses, etc. etc. I don't know if I got your reasoning right, JSngry, but have all those who've fallen by the wayside that way BECAUSE of their personal shortcomings and DESPITE their artistic achievement been treated unfairly? I don't think so. Not all of them were sick dope fiends in need of medical or headshrink treatment, after all. This would not prevent anybody from enjoying their musical legacy, but it would explain and justify reservations about according them unreserved star status in EVERY respect. Not more, not less.

@JSangry: Sure, but did you ever consider that if it doesn't matter to your artistic apprecaiation of any of those celebs one bit if they behaved like real creeps as soon as they stepped off the bandstand, then could it be that at the same time you invalidate any appreciations of OTHER artists who were rightfully acclaimed as being "one of the nicest persons you'd ever meet on and off the stage" (remember how often this has been said here, and usually for good reason, I guess). If it doesn't matter one bit if you are just a jerk then why should it matter if you're just a decent human being? (But it DOES matter!) Or, to name one example, is it that in your book all those who'ved had enough of that "audience blasting" by Keith Jarrett and will never waste any money on his gigs, etc. anymore are dead wrong? (See earlier discussion of that subject here) I have no problem digging the musical works (provided I like their music in the first place) of those where it is universally known what kind of jerks there were in all too numerous situations in life, but do they have to be elevated on a pedestal and showered with adulation as if they are superhuman heros (you know that often happens too, maybe in jazz not quite as much as in other realms of popular music, but still ...)? IMHO their lousy behavior just reduces them considerably in that respect. Enjoy their music - yes, of course - but worship them as heros? Nah!