Big Beat Steve

Very helpful! So a public THANK YOU is in order.

Found the three CDs of that set for the "pricey" sum of 1 EUR each at the clearout sale of a local record store about 4 weeks ago - but no box case nor booklet, unfortunately. Did find the discographical details online but to get some (more) context surrounding these recordings I'd love to get my hands on a scan of the relevant sections of the booklet. Apart from that - yes, these recordings are very interesting - and enlightening. Re- other recommendations, the "Heinrich Heine/Attila Zoller LP mentioned earlier is called "Lyrik und Jazz" and is an achievement in its genre (but probably was plugged to death in the media at the time of its release in ANOTHER attempt at securing "respectability" of jazz among a "wider" public). But to appreciate it fully you would have to be able to master the German language, of course. But it's not overly expensive on amazon: https://www.amazon.de/Heinrich-Heine-Lyrik-Jazz-Westphal/dp/B000GH3DVK

96 years? Wow ..had no idea he was still around ... RIP and thanks for your name as a safe bet when picking up records to my liking from the heyday of "Out West" jazz. I guess most of his work for Kenton (plus some more for others) is on my shelves, and I have all of his 50s jazz leader dates on vinyl (Octet (Capitol), Fabulous (Coral), Jive For Five (Andex), In A Jazz Orbit (Andex), Great Big Band (Capitol, both mono and stereo), and would find it hard to recommend one clearly above all others. But I tend to lean a tiny bit towards his "Great Big Band" set. So, TTK, the "Original Bill Holamn Band - Complete Recordings" 2-CD set that appears in one of the Youtube links of the earlier post by Stompin' would be one way of rounding up the essentials from that period in a convenient package. (And don't let yourself be talked or bullied out of it just because it is on Lone Hill. ) Just listening to "A View From The Side" right now. I'd say it is a nice way of transposing his earlier style he became renowned for in a somewhat more contemporary context without trying to reinvent the wheel.

Yet it's amazing to see this sort of shortcuts or trickery happen with a label that does seem to be official (which UMI Jazz Germany is, I suppose?) ...

But what's that with "So Much Doldinger" being claimed to be an "original" album?? Any way you look at it (and compare liner notes and discographical entries), "So Much Doldinger" (a release for the German Record Club DSC) ORIGINALLY was a compilation of "Jazz Made in Germany" (released as "Dig Doldinger" in the USA) and of "Live at Blue Note Berlin" and is made up of half of each of these LPs. So what they did here was to usurp the title of that compilation LP and package assorted individual tracks onto that extra CD. Certainly nice fillers but no "original" ALBUM, this ...?? I wonder what made them shy away from marketing this as "4 Original Albums plus Bonus tracks" or similar? Have EPs or individual tracks become unmarketable to today's sales whiz kids? If one of these P.D. labels had done that one of their sets they would have been torn to shreds for misrepresentation by the usual suspects ... 😁

There is a difference betwen covering 80 (or even 50) to 100 years or 10 years (as in this case) on some 300 pages. So doesn't this explain that? I think I know what you mean but what you call "slow going" is what i would call "intense".

Started re-reading it AGAIN (in small instalments) 2-3 days ago. Still find it as rewarding as 25+ years ago.

FWIW, this session is also listed in the Bruyninckx discography (the version released in instalments as PDF files - but which certainly predates any publications in the Lord discography). So rumors about the existence of this release must have been around for a while.

I came to using Discogs regularly (and even buying there) relatively late (only a couple of years ago) but do appreciate the outline of an artist's output this site provides. The "crumbhunters" ' input to indicate even minor differences in releases, pressings, etc., is useful to me and has helped me in identifying pressings (at least approximately, as I realize you never know where an uncorrected mistake or omission might hide). I dont expect session details there but am glad when they ARE there (they sometimes are). So I take it above all as a database of the physical items that the music was released on to the public. Not as a discography in the stricter sense. One thing I find annoying is the huge amount of multiple entries. When you look for a particular record there you often find one and the same item (not different pressing runs or reissues) has been entered several times - by different people at differnt times - but never consolidated into ONE entry. They really ought to work on that ...

The first record I ever bought (at about 3 months short of my 15th birthday) was an RCA "Best of" compilation by Duane Eddy. It wasn't too long before I sort of tired of his style and found more interesting R'n'R guitar players elsewhere but later on I did pick up comprehensive vinyl reissues of his Jamie recordings. For completeness sake and to occasionally revive old memories. R.I.P.

OT, and yet ... The above statement is a bit ambiguous. Are the tune titles on the "brown bag" Herbie Nichols twofer alrerady those that Michael Cuscuna was able to reassign according to the session notes or are they non-definitive "provisional" titles?

A note (just in case ...) to those wondering: I just checked the "Lestorian Notes" discography by Piet Koster and Harm Mobach that (on the face of it) is ultra-detailed. But no trace of that tune in the song title index. Yet the entry IS there. It is listed as "(Just a) Little Bit South of North Carolia" and therefore is filed under "L" and also marks the beginning of the 1942 entries in the actual discography. The LP on Everybody's 3002 is nice indeed. I picked up a copy last year when I had (more or less) first pick among a 5000-LP jazz collection our #1 record shop had gotten in. And yes, the 1944 recordings by the Basie band on that LP are fine. But "live 1944 Basie" (including Prez soloing) is exceedingly plentiful out there on various collector labels. So you can easily get drowned in the flood.

Indeed! But signs and part of the times. Remembered differently according to everyone's musical conditioning during that period. Their record contract with MPS made them a staple on a wide variety of German Music shows and broadcasts during the 70s. Usually in (Very 😁) "Easy Listening" formats - for people not quite sophisticated enough to really dig the Siwngle Singers, for example. Not my cuppa, neither then nor now, never miend their undoiubted craftsmanship. But I remember back then I came to sit them out as part of the intermission fillers you were often served, and today I take them as part of the "70s sound" for "adult teens". They probably were also part of the typical music served on a radio show on Sunday nights (taken over from Austrian radio, I think) called "Schlager für Fortgeschrittene" ("Pop music for avanced listeners") hosted by Gerhard Bronner (whom Gheorghe no doubt remembers WELL!). The few other artists I remember from these shows were the Swingle Singers and very similar acts as well as Brazilian latter-day Bossa Nova tunes (with what to my young'un's ears sounded like puzzling, deliberately lifeless singalong plodding). And among the non-vocal items there may well have been some production that would be filed under "sophisticated elevator music". To the ears of this 14-to-15 year-old just getting seriously into music (though not at all the then current hit parade or rock "in crowd" stuff) the fare served there came across as utterly bizarre sounds, making me wonder who on earth would ever buy this and what the point of producing such music was anyway ... Oh well ... BTW, seeing these clips now, I now remember that back in the day I never would have guessed they were made up of only 1 female but 3 males. To the average listener they must have sounded more like 3 females and 1 male. And I remember now this is how I visualized them back then too.

That "rare draft" of Lil Hardin Armstrong's autobiography, isn't that something that Chris Albertson had access to (and/or had been given) after Lil Armstrong's passing?

Update of above list and an addition: 9) Bulletin du Hot Club de France, complete years 1965 to 1968 (10 issues each) - 6 EUR per year (20 EUR for all 4) (French language) Panassie's montlhy publication with record reviews, concert reviews, historical articles, club news (and his share of rants and opinions on the state of jazz - often fairly amusing from today's vantage point)

Ohhh .... He was one of the persons that you figured would be around forever. And it makes you realize how time flies and how you get older too ... RIP

Thanks very much for the links. I had seen the one on Discogs but was wondering whether there might be more details (e.g. more comprehensive recording dates). I am still interested in scans of the booklet, though. In particular if there's a section that discusses the individual tracks. Any general chapters on the basic story of the Beat Generation would be far les important (I've got books that cover this subject pretty well).

This is the first one I ever bought of them (on the strength of the lineup - and at 1 EUR apiece you can take chances. ) According to Discogs they recorded 3 LPs during the 60s (my find is the second one of them). So you will have to wait for others to chime in.

Browsing the bins at a record clearance sale held by a local shop today, I found the three CDs of the Rhino box set "The Beat Generation" (R2 70281) at the VERY affordable price of 1 EUR each. However, no booklet anywhere in sight. Now I would of course like to add the info of this booklet to the music (starting with the accurate discographical details). So ... my question to fellow forumists: Is there anyone out there who owns this set and would be able to take the time to scan and mail the booklet that came with this box set? Please PM me for further arrangements if you are basically OK with helping me with this. Thanks a lot in advance! (P.S.: As to anyone wondering how come such box sets crop up piecemeal, there were several more box sets that apprently had been taken to pieces (including Bear Family sets). I asked the shop owner if the booklets by any chance still were anywhere around but he said unfortunately not. These items came from a "collection" they had received where the owner had filed the CDs individually. They had been able to piece together a few complete sets but in most cases the booklets and box shells probably had been discarded earlier.)

Getting back to the question about to what degree revivalist bands were integrated (in a natural way, in particular, without actually giving thoughts to the color of one's skin), here is an example that goes some way in that direction (the bassist is white): an original from 1967 I picked up at that record clearout sale I went to yesterday. The Saints & Sinners band led by pianist Red Richards was around throughout the 60s as an "all-star" band. The liner notes describe the music on this record as "mainstream" and "swing" but teh Classic/Traditional Jazz overtones are very, very evident. It is an easy-going, relaxed, naturally swinging session (not dull, but not at all extrovert like many white revivalists and not as cliché-laden as some post-circa 1960 New Orleans bands ). Otherwise, this discussion was of course on my mind when I browsed the bins for hours ... 😁 At 1 EUR per item throughout the bins you can take chances ... Yet I shunned the European trad platters (nothing that special or "early pressing" there anyway) and really could not bring myself to buying any of the Firehouse 5+2 or Dukes of Dixieland LPs (there was a handful of each). But I took home one more Soprano Summit LP and (admittedly) did pick up two Turk Murphy Columbia/Philips original pressings from the 50s . And for history's sake I grabbed a 70s reissue of the 1959 Atlantic LP of the Young Tuxedo Brass Band (recorded in 1958, no revival but ongoing tradition from the source .... ).

Yes ... seeing THAT band in such a setting is sort of strange ...

One more ... (ouch ... )

Thanks!

(Sorry to Rabshakeh for straying a bit OT ) If you intimately and immediately know (in EVERY case) which artist plays WHAT music (across the board of ALL genres and styles) - fine. But what makes you think that EVERYONE a) KNOWS all that, b) will embrace and love ANY sort of music alike ("sort" just to avoid the terms "genre" or style" or "label" you so hate ) at any time? That's just not realistic - nor possible nor human. Because humans are different, have different tastes and preferences. So why don't you just take these terms as OPTIONAL GUIDELINES to c) tell those interested in looking beyond the categories (or artists) they are already familiar with what to expect from the music "out there in the great unknown musical territories", d) explain to them where to look FIRST when they want to explore their stylistic preferences of music in greater depth and where not to look (at least not primarily) if they want to avoid pitfalls because a given artist may have changed his musical orientation radically through his career? Examples: c) Something probably not all that unknown to you as a Texan: One genre of music I like immensely is WESTERN SWING. Now this being a subgenre of Country music in the first place (so-called "serious" jazz fans often still sneer at it), why should it be out of place to guide those exploring the genre even in its broadest sense by tagging that stylistic label to the relevant artists? Anyone searching for info specifically on such artists would not necessarily (or rarely even) want to be forced to wade through Nashville assembly-line country music just because it all files under "Country" (nor would those preferring mainstream Country artists wnat to be bothereed with that "old hat" stuff at times they do NOT want to go there). Only human ... d) The first Johnny Guitar Watson LP I ever bought was a Red Lightnin' reissue of his mid-50s recordings. At the same time his 70s Funk stuff was all over the place in the bins for a time. Would it have been a service to the customer to lump everything together in the racks? This one was much better placed in the "Blues" section. Even if there was a separate Watson section in the Funk corner of the shop as well. Look, tomorrow I will check out a record clearance sale at a local shop. More than 50,000 LPs plus countless CDs and 45s on sale but NOTHING sorted by ANY genre or artist at all. (By your reasoning this would be heaven on earth for you about NOT compartmentizing?) Competitively priced and you CAN make finds there (because they also relegate regular stuff to those clearout sales that has been sitting in their bins for too long). So it is worth the effort browsing (last time I came away with more than 100 items) but it is TOUGH work sifting the gems from the dross. Yet the unexpected finds make it worthwhile but you have to EARN them under these circumstances. But would I (or in fact anyone) want to do this every time even at full-price items throughout the year and would compartments by artist and/or style in the record shops therefore be dispensable? NO WAY ... Anyone wanting to expand into other genres or categories is free to do so whenever he sees fit (I've done so too). But everyone decides for himself when and how he wants to go that route into new territories and can and will use such labels and genre categorizations at least as ROUGH GUIDELINES for orientation instead of being forced not to be able to see the forest for the trees ... (I rest my case ...)

I may not be the one to be able to "calm things down" here but just my 2c: Labels such as Bob Wilber being of the "Traditional" school just indicate that he had his origins in Traditional Jazz as a "pupil" of Sidney Bechet. And he went on from there. So his earlier records will usually be filed under "Traditional", "Dixieland", "Classic Jazz" and the like. And such a label IS convenient and serves a purpose just to give "new ones to the game" an idea of what (genre) to expect in a broad stylistic sense. If, for example, someone is into Classic Jazz, nobody will do this listener (or the efforts to widen the audience for jazz) any service by shoving avantgarde acts (or possibly even Bebop or Hard Bop) down the ears of these listeners on the premise that "this is jazz and if you love jazz you GOT to like that too". (People who "argue" like this ARE and have been out there for decades, mind you!) As an example, at one point I mentioned to a neighbor (who had rightly guessed that I am into Rockabilly and REAL Rock'n'Roll, i.e. the 50s variety) that I even more so am into various styles of jazz. His reply was, "Jazz isn't my cuppa, that's all too weird and bizarre for me." Do I know what kind of "jazz" he had been exposed to to come to that conclusion? Shrieks and screeches of what others would embrace as "avantgarde"? Was it Bird (who can be challenging on first hearing to the unaware) or was it "just" some high-note trumpet solo by anyone ranging from Cat Anderson through Dizzy to Maynard Ferguson? But had my neighbor been exposed to something more accessible as a first taste of jazz he might feel differently now. So someone ruined his ears for "jazz" by what he made him listen to at some time in the past. So things don't work that way with most of the "typical" music lovers. Just like someone who is deeply into Heavy Metal will likely be turned off by Techno (and vice versa) - at least upon initial exposure. You got to EASE people into exploring new styles and genres of music (new to them, that is ...) so they gradually discover what is palatable to their tastes after all and what will never be. And "labels" to describe genres do serve a purpose there! And from then on it is up to everybody not to let himself be pigeonholed but to look beyond as he feels comfortable with. But you cannot force them - or leave them in the wilderness by lumping ANY genre into one big blob of "just music" from the start. Getting back to Bob Wilber, this discussion of labels reminds me of one key experience I had decades ago. Listening to a jazz radio show, I was blown away by the Bob Wilber and Kenny Davern live recording of "Stompy Jones". Was I pleased when I later found this track on the Soprano Summit In Concert LP at Mole Jazz in the 90s ... That killer track might not be totally out of place at a dance session for advanced jivers and lindy hoppers (with the right stamina - the track clocks in at 07:52!). So this might be one tune to increase the awareness of the not all that jazz-minded dancing crowd (though maybe not one of my buddies who is exceedingly knowledgeable of R'n'R/Rockabilly but has an intense dislike of horns ).