clifford_thornton

By 'wave off' what do you mean? He must've been a real mensch. Wish I'd had the chance to meet him.

Yeah, I have that Chance set, on a ROIR CD. It's excellent. Hard to choose Cherry, but other than the Togetherness suite (as recorded for Durium, with Aldo Romano and J-F Jenny-Clark), I'd single out his Swedish recordings as among the most go-to of the go-to. But that's just me, and that still covers a fair amount of ground: Eternal Now, Organic Music Society, Movement Incorporated, Live in Stockholm, and Modern Art. Would also like to hear the full session that bore La Maison Fille du Soliel (w/ Tusques, Guerin, Jenny-Clark), which is very cool but too damn short.

I'm still hoping NYCJR will let me publish a review... it is a fabulous book. I learned a ton and it also made me think/engage in dialogue with the author - a good thing indeed.

Ornette collaborators still living include Bobby Bradford, Denardo Coleman, Bern Nix, James "Blood" Ulmer, Jamaladeen Tacuma, Al McDowell, Tony Falanga, Geri Allen, Charles Ellerbee, Charnett Moffett, Joachim Kühn, and Pharoah Sanders. I'm sure there are others. Don Cherry's work as a Coleman front-line partner is extraordinary, and he led many incredible bands afterwards. Other than the rough session with Sanders and Scianni in '64, I can't think of too many clinkers in his sizable discography.

Steve was big into "free love" and had a very timely vibe. Still does. And he could play the hell out of the bass. Spent some fine recent hours listening to master tapes of his late '60s band with Noah Howard, great stuff.

Do you think for a second that I don't think we have a race problem?

Yes. Many horrible acts can be - and have been - committed by other means, but the easy availability of firearms cannot be separated from this incident and comparably terrible acts.

But at the end of the day, racist people with or without serious mental disorders that have no access to guns won't likely be killing people. And that gets us into the political forum...

Why do you assume this individual is a sociopath? Is it because of the heinous nature of his actions? Here again is the notion that someone must be "out of their mind" to do such a thing. I'm not saying he is "well-adjusted"or that his faculties are fully intact. What I am saying is that there need not be a "break" or uncontrollable impulse for someone to behave in hateful ways that most people cannot comprehend. Because of this, we as a society bear some responsibility when such tragedies occur. 25 years of clinical experience, including work with actual sociopaths, has made me realize that ordinary people have the capacity to create breathtaking beauty as well as unspeakable horror. As someone from a family of very compassionate clinical psychologists, I didn't just get off the bus on this subject either. There are people who are disposed to do evil things and those require complete suspension of empathy. To say this is not discounting our fucked up society OR throwing people under the bus who suffer from a range of mental health issues. Ordinary people do unspeakable things in wartime and under great stress; this was a heinous act committed by one individual whose actions are certainly reflective of a significant amount of social problems, but to act as he did reflects something endemic to his person as well.

"Insanity" means that the person either could not control their behavior, or they could not distinguish right from wrong due to mental illness. From all accounts, this individual was focused, determined and in full control of his actions. We tend to identify such people and their actions as "insane", "monstrous" or "pure evil" in order to protect and distance ourselves from the harsh reality that tragedies like this are the result of the fear, ignorance and hatred of those who believe they are losing their ability to exert power and control in our society. I can't follow you down that road. Besides, you kind contradicted yourself when you said being able to discern between right and wrong. Not sure in what reality murder is right, but it isn't in this one. And if he didn't realize it... If my perceptions of reality and capacity for judgment are severely impaired to the point where I cannot identify what is real and what is fantasy, and hence what is right and what is wrong in a rational world, then I meet the criteria for the legal definition of "insane". If these conditions are absent, however, and if I choose to kill an individual even though I know that to do so is wrong, I cannot plead insanity. As erwbol pointed out, most mass murders are not committed by people with severe mental impairments, nor are those with psychiatric diagnoses more likely to commit acts of violence like these. The point of my previous post is that society would like to think that "only a madman could do such a thing." It makes people feel safer and free of responsibility when such tragedies occur. I believe that what happened in Charleston is the result of the fear, anger and ignorance that is willfully spread by those who wield political, financial and cultural power in our society and are afraid of losing it. Horrible events like this will continue to occur on a regular basis until this dynamic changes. We're not talking about schizophrenia, narcissism or depression here. Sociopathology is, last time I checked, a mental disorder. Not all sociopaths commit murder (or any heinous crime) but more than a few murderers are sociopaths. I'm also not saying that a racist society didn't factor in here, but someone with this kind of "break" might internalize societal constructs in a way that, with a skewed sense of morality, they feel compelled to act on those constructs. Timothy McVeigh was not a well-adjusted dude, and nor was this guy.

I guess the trifecta of racism, insanity and guns are something I can't square completely or correctly as one over the other. Either way, all bad.

I've thought, typed, deleted, typed and deleted again thoughts about this all afternoon - I actually didn't hear the news until around lunchtime for whatever reason - and it's just incomprehensible and fucked.

ha, yeah - "hold on, I'ma let you finish, but Joe Henderson In Concert on Japanese Philips is one of the best Joe Henderson records of all time!"

Listening to him with Andrew Hill and/or Kenny Dorham puts those particular dates above the rest for me.

See that and raise you Gate.

I think so, though Blue Gene Tyranny is also playing that night. Weighing celebrating the passing of a favorite or going to see someone living whose music I also adore is a tough choice.

Cut Hands is a far better musical experience than Whitehouse, at least to me and at this point in time.

I'm sure they're true but it's still a solid record. Sometimes sick bastards make worthwhile music. Now: Blind Blake - Bootleg Rum Dum Blues 1926-1930 - (Biograph)

John Phillips - Wolf King of L.A. - (ABC Dunhill)

good that people who are curious about his music bought some, though sad in light of recent events that it didn't happen earlier.

I was just thinking about those guys the other day. "Born in the USA" came on at a lunch place and I remarked to my girlfriend that I heard "Born in East LA" before I heard the Springsteen original!

ah, too bad.

Amazon is showing 1-3 weeks on this thing (which I was all set to grab for pops via Amazon Prime for Father's Day). Dusty Groove has not had it for sale at all. I may have missed the boat, but was this here and gone or has it been delayed slightly? I see third-party sellers seem to have copies but am not sure whether they "really" have it.

1999-2002.

Rad. Yeah that'd be me.