--- title edited by moderator ---

[Brad]

I just read the whole thread and you know Aric is going to get banned sooner or later. It's inevitable. To threaten to kill Jim is dumb but aren't we just getting a little wacko here. Haven't each of us said something dumb sometimes or threatened to themselves or screamed to themselves "I'm going to kill so and so." That's not much different than what he did. Ok, ban him for a little while. But let's not also forgot that SS1 is guilty here too. He's still pissed about not getting his cd or not getting paid or whatever. Get over it. Life is too short to bear a grudge for the rest of your life over probably not a hell of a lot of money. Just have nothing to do with the guy. But don't egg him on. You know he's unpredictable. Leave him alone and don't act like a spoiled sport.

[Epithet]

Haven't each of us said something dumb sometimes or threatened to themselves or screamed to themselves "I'm going to kill so and so." That's not much different than what he did.

Obviously some of us are being wilfully obtuse about this. After really goading him like that I suppose that's the only way you can win with any sense of legitimacy.

[Jim Alfredson]

Why is this about winning and losing? This about someone making threats against another board member AND myself (explicitly forbidden in the rules of this forum since day 1) and acting extremely immature.

[Soul Stream]

Why is this about winning and losing? This about someone making threats against another board member AND myself (explicitly forbidden in the rules of this forum since day 1) and acting extremely immature.

The fact is, JIM A. was pulled in. He's got a baby. Aric's threats ain't funny to him. Jim is our friend, he's the guy who gives us all a house to come to. That's the bottom line to me.

[Rooster_Ties]

I do believe Aric was "pushed" today, but it's not like he didn't have a vast history of pulling crap around here that wasn't the least bit cool. Ss1 shouldn't have pushed Aric like that, but Aric's been there and done that plenty of times (without Ss1's help)...

Jan 11 2005: "I SERIOUSLY WANNA KILL THAT BITCH WHO IS RUNNING CTU" 

Feb 10 2005: "IF I WAS THERE IN 1966 I WOULD HAVE TOOK OUT A MACHINE GUN AND KILLED EVERYONE IN THE SHRINE AUDITOURIUM "

Jan 15 2005: "yeah well i just did a voodoo dance so "sjarrell" and his whole family gets cancer"

Jan 10 2005: "I WANT THE LIST NOW YOU BETTER HAND IT OVER OR I AM GOING TO KILL YOU JSNGERY!"

Nov 3 2004: "AGRHGHRHGRHRJRJJRJJJJJHHJHH i am going to kill all of u"

April 11 2004: "i will mail u my elo-spaceship if u kill jazzmoose"

March 16 2005: "IM GOING TO KILL YOU SOULSTATION---- IF U DONT REMOVE THAT IM GOING TO KILL U AND YOUR WHOLE FAMILY. AND SUE U. I HOPE U GET CANCER AND ARE WIPED OFF EARTH"

March 16 2005: "you are an asshole supreme. i wish u were dead"

Maybe shame on Ss1 for pushing him like that, and shame on us for not keeping Aric better in check.

(And I do say "us", because peer pressure should be be the first line of defense around here, not Jim having to police the place.)

That said, Aric went over the line, and the time was right to show him the door.

Edited March 17, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Cornelius]

In no particular order of importance:

1. He has passion for jazz and some knowledge of it, but I didn't see sign of a special knowledge or insight about it.

2. It is intriguing whether his is an act. My guess is that it's a little of both - schtick and real.

3. I advocate free-speech in forums like this. I think people should be allowed to go off topic, insult one another, flame, and all kinds of things. And in almost any case, I am very much opposed to banning a person. But there are a few categories that should be disallowed. Threatening death is one of them. Especially if he had done this before on this board, and especially as he did it twice recently, he should not be allowed to post. Period. And no forgiveness later on. In my book, threaten death (especially more than once) = lifetime ban.

4. The argument that the threats were just rhetorical doesn't hold. No one could be expected not to take that kind of angry threat as unintimidating. Even if one does not fear that the threat will actually be carried out, its mere presence is intimidationg nonetheless; it initmidates one from speaking freely, so that the threat is not just about physical harm but is a damper on free speech.

5. He voluntarily allowed his picture on the Internet. He can't expect to control its dissemination, except by claiming a copyright infringement.

6. That said, Soulstation1 was clearly rubbing salt in the wounds and gloating about it. That was not attractive. Whatever prerogative Soulstation1 had to leave the picture posted, leaving it posted was unwise and a bit selfish. When the death threats were posted, even I, not involved at all, felt a little threatened and creeped out, in the sense that I just didn't want to be even near that kind of thing (except of course, to be part of the record-breaking collective log-in in admiration of the train wreck), possibly wary even to inadvertently post something that would exacerbate the situation. So while Soulstation1 was not himself the perp, I felt that he was inconsiderate to other posters not to immediately do what he could to defuse a volatile situation. If there were some important matter of principle at stake in leaving the picture posted, then I'd not fault Soulstation1, but this did not strike me as that kind of exercise of principle.

7. As to leaving the quotes in the signature, I think that's fair. Unless the quotes are egregiously out of context, ariceffron did post those things and they are part of the body of these proceedings.

8. I wish the board monitor had not himself got into it with ariceffron in this case, but instead just banned him. And I don't think this thread should have been renamed with the subtile it now bears. It is yet another instance of rubbing salt in the wound. A more neutral subtitle (retitle only justified, by the way, due to the grave nature of an incident involving death threats) would be something like: Banning Incident. Though, I do understand that the situation had to be stressful for, or at least raise the ire of, a board monitor.

9. Some damn funny things said in this thread. The "don't let that fool you" line was good, and especially the "half calling the FBI and the other half waxing nostalgic" line was aces.

10. I don't know why ariceffron is so upset about the picture being posted anyway. He's a fine looking young man. No need to be ashamed at all.

Edited March 17, 2005 by Cornelius

[brownie]

I miss Aric!

Did anybody really take his DEATH threats seriously?

Aric brought life to this party!

[Jim Alfredson]

I miss Aric!

Did anybody really take his DEATH threats seriously?

With all the recent happenings here in America, is there a good reason not to?

I gave him plenty of warning over the last few weeks, even months, to cool his jets. He chose not to. I agree that SS1 was rubbing Aric a little, but I hardly think that warrants Aric saying he's going to kill him, and all his family. That's not funny. And I do take it seriously.

It is a clear violation of the rules that have been posted since day one. I am all for free speech but I will not tolerate threats of physical harm.

He will not be allowed back.

[Guest che]

Wow how did I miss this show?

Che.

[BERIGAN]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Aric have a sense of humor about his "image" at one time? I thought someone dug up a years old BNBB thread using his image on all these BN album covers, bald headed and all? Perhaps the meds were better adjusted then.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

EDITED: I was reminded about the way Aric was supposed to acquire "Money Jungle"

For those of you reading this thread who may be unaware of Soulstaion1's "deal" with Aric that has reverberated through this board and the Blue Note for all these years it was this:

Soulstaion1: Burn 6 CDs from the Blue Note box set

Aric: Steal a new CD of "Money Jungle" from the Starbucks that he worked at

Aric claims the burns arrived and didn't play. He also claimed he was broke so he couldn't buy one. Neither is a valid excuse for backing out of the deal.

Aric was a sap for getting into this deal. He agreed to steal a CD for $1.50 worth of illegal CDs.

Aric acts like a jerk all the time and I won't miss his posts. However, Soulstation1 screwed up this board royally with this vendetta of his over an illegal deal gone south. A deal in which he was bascially ripping off Blue Note and Dexter Gordon's widow as well as Aric and receiving stolen goods (if the deal had gone down as planned). Aric acts like an immature jerk, but Soulstation1 isn't far behind with his actions.

I wonder if Soulstaion1 is still making deals like this? I don't many who would appreciate an offer of a burn for a new CD.

Kevin

Edited March 17, 2005 by Kevin Bresnahan

[kulu se mama]

The fact is, JIM A. was pulled in. He's got a baby. Aric's threats ain't funny to him. Jim is our friend, he's the guy who gives us all a house to come to. That's the bottom line to me.

AMEN.

i could not have said it better myself.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I miss Aric!

Did anybody really take his DEATH threats seriously?

With all the recent happenings here in America, is there a good reason not to?

I gave him plenty of warning over the last few weeks, even months, to cool his jets. He chose not to. I agree that SS1 was rubbing Aric a little, but I hardly think that warrants Aric saying he's going to kill him, and all his family. That's not funny. And I do take it seriously.

It is a clear violation of the rules that have been posted since day one. I am all for free speech but I will not tolerate threats of physical harm.

He will not be allowed back.

Jim, we have gone around and around on this. You should take personal threats seriously! However, when it came to Dan Gould threatening to find Greg Maltz and doing him harm, you looked the other way. I do not agree with your moderating style in these two instances. You got it right here. You got it wrong there.

To put it this way, if Soulstation1 has resonded to Aric's death threat with a post that said, "Yeah Aric, and your girlfriend is an internet whore... and your mother is too," would you have banned him instead of Aric?

Kevin

[andybleaden]

I am afraid I feel this has come about not soon enough.

Threats like that should never be acceptable. Remember there is a mixed age range of people who read this board regularly

Needed sorting

Well Done

Can we lose the repeats of the threats now?

[Epithet]

Now that you've all conspired to ban my #1 hero ariceffron, I'm going to come round and kill you all.

(Season with 'smilies' according to taste.)

[Sundog]

Aric acts like a jerk all the time and I won't miss his posts. However, Soulstation1 screwed up this board royally with this vendetta of his over an illegal deal gone south.

I don't know if "screwed up this board royally" is how I would characterize it, however it was all over the board and it was pretty hard to avoid. Sure would be a nice gesture moving forward if he lost the signature though.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

No redeeming qualities. As far as I can tell, knowledge of jazz (or anything else) cannot be proclaimed unilaterally - I KNOW MORE ABOUT JAZZ THAN YOU DO SO THERE - which is exactly what I saw time and again. Nothing more.

Those who did find any marginal benefit in laughing at him can rest easy knowing that there are plenty of people here who can mimic his inanities - and those people don't bring along any of the bad side.

The need for the ignore function has decreased greatly.

Thank you Jim for finally ridding the board of this pest.

Mike

[brownie]

I miss Aric!

Did anybody really take his DEATH threats seriously?

With all the recent happenings here in America, is there a good reason not to?

I gave him plenty of warning over the last few weeks, even months, to cool his jets. He chose not to. I agree that SS1 was rubbing Aric a little, but I hardly think that warrants Aric saying he's going to kill him, and all his family. That's not funny. And I do take it seriously.

It is a clear violation of the rules that have been posted since day one. I am all for free speech but I will not tolerate threats of physical harm.

He will not be allowed back.

Jim, with all due respect - and I DO mean that! - this went too far!

After all, this started when a 12 bucks deal went sour! Couldn't all this aggravation have been dealt with earlier and settled once for all.

If I had known any of the involved party had been that much concerned, I would have shipped in with a copy of the missing CD!

I agree that Aric went too far and it's not the first time this happened but probably because I see all this from an outside perspective, I have to say that Aric has himself been the subject of quite a bit of hazing from the moment he joined this Board.

And as far as posting some crap, Aric is not the only one around these parts.

But he is one of the posters who really bring life to the the Board!

I can understand your concern about Aric's direct threat to a poster and his kin but I always took these type of threats from him as literary licence! Your banning Aric because of this and 'in the wake of recent happenings in America' smacks of Bush's post 9/11 paranoia.

I DO hope that Aric's banishment is a temporary thing. Please reconsider!

And please Soulstation1, do not take this as any kind of offense! I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone.

Really wish this had been settled ages ago.

[king ubu]

I miss Aric!

Did anybody really take his DEATH threats seriously?

With all the recent happenings here in America, is there a good reason not to?

I gave him plenty of warning over the last few weeks, even months, to cool his jets. He chose not to. I agree that SS1 was rubbing Aric a little, but I hardly think that warrants Aric saying he's going to kill him, and all his family. That's not funny. And I do take it seriously.

It is a clear violation of the rules that have been posted since day one. I am all for free speech but I will not tolerate threats of physical harm.

He will not be allowed back.

Jim, with all due respect - and I DO mean that! - this went too far!

After all, this started when a 12 bucks deal went sour! Couldn't all this aggravation have been dealt with earlier and settled once for all.

If I had known any of the involved party had been that much concerned, I would have shipped in with a copy of the missing CD!

I agree that Aric went too far and it's not the first time this happened but probably because I see all this from an outside perspective, I have to say that Aric has himself been the subject of quite a bit of hazing from the moment he joined this Board.

And as far as posting some crap, Aric is not the only one around these parts.

But he is one of the posters who really bring life to the the Board!

I can understand your concern about Aric's direct threat to a poster and his kin but I always took these type of threats from him as literary licence! Your banning Aric because of this and 'in the wake of recent happenings in America' smacks of Bush's post 9/11 paranoia.

I DO hope that Aric's banishment is a temporary thing. Please reconsider!

And please Soulstation1, do not take this as any kind of offense! I'm not trying to put the blame on anyone.

Really wish this had been settled ages ago.

[Daniel A]

I can't say I agree with those complaining about "uneven moderation". This is no court of law, and Jim doesn't have to take the Gould vs. Maltz case into consideration when making a decision now.

Aric ignored the board rules, and his banishment should come as no surprise. SS1 did not violate the rules, which of course says nothing about if his posts were in good taste or not.

Regarding Greg's banishment I can't see why it should be brought up again. If someone misses his opinions on SACDs I'm sure there are other ways of contacting him.

To those who mourn Aric's departure: You're free to express your feelings about it. However, I don't think how funny, insightful or knowledgable someone is should affect the decision to ban that person after an obvious violation of the board rules.

[Brad]

You know this is all a little crazy. I'm not saying threatening a person is proper but for chrissake it's the internet. Do you think he's going to come to Jim's house or SS1's house and kill them. I seriously doubt it. He got pissed and let off steam.

Since it's a violation of the board rules he should go but not forever.

Also, for egging him on and acting like an idiot, I think you should get rid of ss1 too for awhile. If we don't need Aric here, we certainly don't need him also.

[Guest che]

For those of you reading this thread who may be unaware of Soulstaion1's "deal" with Aric that has reverberated through this board and the Blue Note for all these years it was this:

Soulstaion1: Burn 6 CDs from the Blue Note box set

Aric: Go to store and buy "new" "Money Jungle" CD

Aric claims the burns arrived and didn't play. He also claimed he was broke. Neither is a valid excuse for backing out of the deal.

Aric was a sap for getting into this deal. He agreed to trade a $10 (min) CD for $1.50 worth of illegal CDs.

Aric acts like a jerk all the time and I won't miss his posts. However, Soulstation1 screwed up this board royally with this vendetta of his over an illegal deal gone south. A deal in which he was bascially ripping off Blue Note and Dexter Gordon's widow as well as Aric. Aric acts like an immature jerk, but Soulstation1 isn't far behind with his actions.

I wonder if Soulstaion1 is still making deals like this? I don't many who would appreciate an offer of a burn for a new CD.

Kevin

Wow and I thought I was the only one some members of this board did not like

Che.

[AllenLowe]

I think we should ban Robert Blake from here, as well - and Karl Rove -

Edited March 17, 2005 by AllenLowe

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Allright people, let's just settle this thing once and for all and hand out an appropriate punishment ---- Rooster gets banned for violating the 'too much sucking up on one thread' rule.

BUT, seriously, (and probably most importantly!!) -- I still think this is Jim's board, and therefore think that Jim ought to do whatever he thinks is best, including ignoring what I think.

Whatever. It's Jim's board, and it's Jim's call, and I'll back whatever he decides.

[ghost of miles]

BUT, seriously, (and probably most importantly!!) -- I still think this is Jim's board, and therefore think that Jim ought to do whatever he thinks is best, including ignoring what I think.

Whatever. It's Jim's board, and it's Jim's call, and I'll back whatever he decides.

Agreed. The only people who've been banned from here have been people who, in one way or another, have been provocative and problematic in an ongoing manner. DEEP, GregM, Aric... all three were prolonged headaches for Jim in one way or another, and whatever redeeming qualities they brought to the board (DEEP's musical background, GregM's obvious erudition and intellect, Aric's passion for jazz and liveliness) were eventually outweighed by the chaos and ill will that they sowed. Jim's a very laidback, very fairminded guy; I'd say getting kicked off by him should be cause for self-reflection on the bannee's part.