WORLD CUP 2006 / GERMANY

[couw]

I'm going to disagree with the PK call for France. Yes, there was some contact on the play, but that was really more of a dive, the way I saw it. I can't blame a referee for calling something like that a foul, but the replay showed otherwise, I think.

watch again. The guy hit his foot so there is no way he could have remained upright. The foul looked worse than it was because of the whack Italian dancing in midair undecided whether to yes or no. Foul in PK area equals PK. so no gift.

Also, look how things even out- the same player was fouled in the box later in the match, and no PK was given. I was less bothered by that non-call, as a result of how I felt about the awarded PK.

no even out, a big steal if you want to name it correctly. If FIFA can look at video to give Zidane a red, they can also look at video to grant that PK I'd say.

FIFA lost this tournament.

[Brad]

Congratulations to Italia. They did deserve to win, imo. Scored a legitimate goal in this match, and played great defense throughout the tournament. Not the prettiest WC in history (please erase those first-round referees from my memory... NOW), but so be it.

Your premise seems that they deserved to win because they scored a legitimate goal as opposed to the France PK. A PK is just as legitimate as a non PK goal. In fact, this was a more deserving PK, imo, than the one in the Portugal match. Looking at the game overall, Italy had some moments on offense in the first half but after that it was all France. They were constantly on the attack, looking for the tie breaker. They were making younger men look bad.

However, not always the best team wins. You need to get breaks. Italy got them, helped by Zidane and they won. End of story.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Brad

[Jim R]

I'll have another look at the replay(not sure when, though), John. Sure looked to me like he could have stayed on his feet.

Regarding Zidane's red, I hadn't heard anything official about how the decision was arrived at. Have you heard/read anything explaining that? I thought the ref consulted a linesman, not a fourth official. At any rate, by all appearances the red card was justified, so I find it difficult to complain about how the decision was actually reached. To me, justice is the most important thing... and although Zidane too a number of tumbles during this match, I'm not so sure about the comment from Domanech. Anyway, I'm not claiming to know entirely what's right and wrong here, so it's just for the sake of discussion...

[Jim R]

Your premise seems that they deserved to win because they scored a legitimate goal as opposed to the France PK. A PK is just as legitimate as a non PK goal.

Not necessarily. A PK has to be awarded according to the subjective judgement of a man who may or may not even have a good look at the play. I'm just not yet convinced that the PK was deserved.

However, not always the best team wins. You need to get breaks. Italy got them, helped by Zidane and they won. End of story.

I don't know, Brad. Was Italy's goal a "break"? Sure, Zidane may have made a difference if he'd stayed on, but nobody knows. France certainly played well overall, I guess I'm just trying to give Italy a bit of credit where I think it's deserved (at least to some degree).

[Dan Gould]

I'm going to jump in to this discussion for the first and only time to say that the problem, as I see it, with the sport is that the opportunities to score are so few (which is why I find it mind-dullingly boring - and yes, I will tell you that baseball is a 100% more exciting! ) that the results are too often a function of who can con a referee into awarding a penalty kick or a red card based on nothing but superlative acting. ESPN showed a compilation of the worst of these "dives" and its truly pathetic - both that the competition comes down to these calls, and that the athletes, who are supposed to be sportsmen, act in this way.

There you have it, a non-fan's view. Take it as you wish.

[Noj]

I found a great number of the goals in the World Cup to be thrilling as a sports fan in general, though I am not an avid football fan. Pin-point accuracy, incredible passing, tremendous atheleticism and stamina were far more prevalent to me than the acting and flopping around. Much like hockey, it is so difficult to score that when they do actually score it tends to be amazing.

With all the hype around Zidane and his storied career, I was rooting for France until the head butt. Then I immediately wanted France to lose. I did feel bad for the kid who missed the pk.

[catesta]

Congratulazioni Italia!

I didn't watch much of the game if any, but did fly the colors and participate in the fun.

There are major celebrations in the Italian neighborhoods of Brooklyn and here in Queens.

[mikeweil]

Zidane lost my sympathy when he pushed down two Korean players from behind without any given reason - a choleric character. Klinsmann was right when he employed psychologists and the like - that should be obilgatory for all teams to reduce the fouls!

I hate penalty shoots! For me, none of the two won. They should let them play until one team scores, and if they drop in exhaustion - then they would perhaps consider taking more risks.

I cannot follow French coach Dommenech - why didn't he bring in Trézegué after 75 minutes ..... what an unsportive final in a rather disappointing WC - except for some nice surprises. But the so-called favourites all disppointed.

[Brad]

Your premise seems that they deserved to win because they scored a legitimate goal as opposed to the France PK. A PK is just as legitimate as a non PK goal.

Not necessarily. A PK has to be awarded according to the subjective judgement of a man who may or may not even have a good look at the play. I'm just not yet convinced that the PK was deserved.

However, not always the best team wins. You need to get breaks. Italy got them, helped by Zidane and they won. End of story.

I don't know, Brad. Was Italy's goal a "break"? Sure, Zidane may have made a difference if he'd stayed on, but nobody knows. France certainly played well overall, I guess I'm just trying to give Italy a bit of credit where I think it's deserved (at least to some degree).

What I meant by breaks was Zindane's headbutt and Trezeguet's miss. Their goal was certainly not a break but a great header. Italy does need to get credit because they are the Champs. They won so that entitles them to the credit.

[ghost of miles]

Apologies if this was posted earlier in this sprawling thread:

The New Yorker on FIFA

Interesting article about the president of FIFA.

[Jim R]

ESPN showed a compilation of the worst of these "dives" and its truly pathetic - both that the competition comes down to these calls, and that the athletes, who are supposed to be sportsmen, act in this way.

Let's see... what was that old baseball adage... "If you're not cheating, you're not trying"? But I (and from previous comments here, I'd say WE) agree with that, Dan. There need to be more cards for diving- in the box or otherwise.

I can understand why some people would find football/soccer boring. Like any sport, you kind of have to spend some time with it, get to know it, in order to really appreciate it. It's not always about scoring, although I've admitted that as a former offensive player, I do like to see good attacking and good goals. Anyway, I know this sport won't be for everybody.

[Jim R]

Brad, I hear you, my friend. Too bad it had to end that way.

[Brad]

I guess when you get down to it, Jim, the result of it all is very unsatisying, sort of like this whole Cup.

[connoisseur series500]

I found a great number of the goals in the World Cup to be thrilling as a sports fan in general, though I am not an avid football fan. Pin-point accuracy, incredible passing, tremendous atheleticism and stamina were far more prevalent to me than the acting and flopping around. Much like hockey, it is so difficult to score that when they do actually score it tends to be amazing.

With all the hype around Zidane and his storied career, I was rooting for France until the head butt. Then I immediately wanted France to lose. I did feel bad for the kid who missed the pk.

I'm with Nojjy on this one.

I see the athleticism and the precision with the football. The low number of scores relative to many American sports only adds to the excitement and sense of accomplishment once one is attained.

[mike casinghino]

italy rules the football world!

to say that they don't deserve it ,or that the best team did not win, is a total crock of sh*t.

[Indestructible!]

Congratulations to the Azzuri! (And I say this as a fan of Germany.)

An absolutely iron-clad defense all throughout the tournament. France clearly outplayed Italy from about the 65th minute through extra time, but other then Ribery and Zidane's attempts in the first extra time period, they were no real threat to score.

Cannavaro is surely the MVP of the World Cup.

Enjoy the party, Italy... You deserve it! I know the **** is going to hit the fan soon, so hopefully this will ease the pain a bit (BTW, I would LOVE to see Juventus go down to Serie C).

Cheers,

Shane

[Jim R]

I'll have another look at the replay(not sure when, though), John. Sure looked to me like he could have stayed on his feet.

I not only looked at it again, I studied it. I even slowed down the slow motion replays, and saw it from all angles. I see it the same way I saw it when the game aired. Yes, Materazzi's left foot touched Malouda's right foot. Barely. Malouda dove (sold it to the ref), in my opinion. A rare occasion where I agreed with the ABC analysts (Balboa and Wynalda).

I've read various worldwide news stories online, and the circumstances surrounding Zidane's red are still rather confusing, to say the least. There seem to be a variety of opinions as to which official first saw the head butt, and whether they saw it live or on video replay. The site with the least amount of info (or even conjecture) about the incident? The same site where I had hoped to find more definitive info- the official FIFA site. Maybe it's out of respect to a great player to avoid too much mention of the whole thing. I was just hoping to get some closure on that. If anybody has a link to a good, reliable source, feel free to share.

[couw]

I've read various worldwide news stories online, and the circumstances surrounding Zidane's red are still rather confusing, to say the least. There seem to be a variety of opinions as to which official first saw the head butt, and whether they saw it live or on video replay. The site with the least amount of info (or even conjecture) about the incident? The same site where I had hoped to find more definitive info- the official FIFA site. Maybe it's out of respect to a great player to avoid too much mention of the whole thing. I was just hoping to get some closure on that. If anybody has a link to a good, reliable source, feel free to share.

on telly they showed Buffon going to the linesman, who had not raised his flag or otherwise informed the ref. He was near the fourth ref and they had some bla bla with the fifth man joining. Lippi and Domenech both explained later that the decision was based on video footage. Of course FIFA may tell you otherwise. They will likely come up with a story where the linesman had seen it, but wasn't sure and went for the opinion of the 4th and 5th man. My problem with this is not that Zidane went out, but with the fact that FIFA used video footage during the game. If they can do it here, they could also have done it with the various dives and other crap. People have demanded FIFA use it for years, they have always declined and now you see them using it without any plan. Such arbitrariness is pretty typical for this moloch of course.

[Jim R]

I'm with you, John, except that it's still not really clear/certain that video was used. It seems more likely than not, though (especially since even Lippi apparently agreed with Domenech). Someone with some integrity and some balls needs to come forward in the next day or so, and explain this shit. Sweep it under the rug, and things will only get worse.

[edit]... and if necessary, someone with integrity and balls (and some influence) should come forward and challenge somebody (within FIFA) to explain.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Jim R

[David Ayers]

I drew Italy in the office sweepstake - so I am glad they won! I'll be on the champagne tonight!

They had an easy route to the final - Ghana, USA, Czech Republic, Australia, Ukraine - so were comparatively untested and had a day's extra rest.

I found the group stage of the competition fun, the knock out stage boring (I fell asleep through the whole final and only woke up for the Zidane foul aftermath).

France went out looking like they blew it even more than England did - Zidane's red puts Rooney's into perspective, though at least their penalties were not as weak minded and duff as England's.

Once you get to knockout stage, this competition is about your country winning, not about the 'beautiful game' which they are always trying to sell you. Once your country is out, there isn't a lot to get into, not now that the order of the day is negative/defensive play often followed by dire extra time and penalties you couldn't care less about if you are neutral.

[couw]

ah yes, just as I thought:

FIFA spokesman Andreas Herren however said that Spaniard Luis Medina Cantalejo had seen the incident live. "He saw what happened as it happened and he immediately told the referee over the communications system. The referee then sent Zidane off."

that's of course also why the card was giving only what? 3 or so minutes later after the world had watched the incident half a dozen times in replay. "Immediately" is much sooner dear FIFA. And if this is the speed with which these communication devices works, then you guys need to bring those back to the shop.

[king ubu]

What a lame game that was, yesterday... just about as boring as France-South Korea or Switzerland-Ukraine... maybe they should all go back to their roots and study with him again?

[Soulstation1]

somebody shoot me

i picked france in the upset

[Brad]

According to FIFA, they were sorting things out, that's why it took so long to eject Zidane. What a lot of crap. This is deplorable. Even Lippi said they were using video evidence. How can you change the rules in mid stream. There are a lot of things that go on in matches that refs don't see. This was obviously one. It shouldn't have been called. And this doesn't even get into the question of how the defense was manhandling him, nearly breaking his arm on one play. Matarazzo needs to be called to account by FIFA for what he said.

This is a tainted championship.

[rockefeller center]

Zinédine Yazid Zidane ->