Verve Records

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

The Mothers were on Verve.

Weren't they on their own (?) label BIZARRE that was distributed through Verve?

Looks to me like Bizarre was a production company. In the US the stuff was on Verve, according to my old Schwann catalogues. And the UK issues, that I remember from holding them (gingerly) in my hands, were on Verve.

MG

[Big Al]

There were occasional sets that were disappointing like 'Ben Webster and Associates' but the Hawk/Ben, ..., are musical treasures that would never have seen the light of day if not for Granz.

For me, it's just the opposite: I love "Associates," but never could get into Hawk/Ben. YMMV.

[paul secor]

Blues Project, Laura Nero, The Hombres, Janis Ian...

They were on Verve-Forecast (as was John Lee Hooker), which was intended as a Folk music label (and probably wasn't managed by Creed Taylor), though the "folk" credentials of a good a good few of those artists don't seem nearly as convincing now as they probably did then.

The Mothers were on Verve.

I've remembered that my cousin had a 45 of a recording of "Imagination" on UK Verve, by some group whose name I don't think I even tried to remember, which was in imitation of the Marcels (does anyone remember the Marcels' "Blue moon"?) and was 1961 or 1962. Now THAT was in the Creed Taylor days. I can't understand why it came out on Verve when MGM had a perfectly serviceable, though bland, R&B label, Cub, at the time; but there we are.

MG

The Quotations were a white vocal group - I'd forgotten all about them and that record until you mentioned it - so perhaps that's why they weren't on the r&b Cub label.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Blues Project, Laura Nero, The Hombres, Janis Ian...

They were on Verve-Forecast (as was John Lee Hooker), which was intended as a Folk music label (and probably wasn't managed by Creed Taylor), though the "folk" credentials of a good a good few of those artists don't seem nearly as convincing now as they probably did then.

The Mothers were on Verve.

I've remembered that my cousin had a 45 of a recording of "Imagination" on UK Verve, by some group whose name I don't think I even tried to remember, which was in imitation of the Marcels (does anyone remember the Marcels' "Blue moon"?) and was 1961 or 1962. Now THAT was in the Creed Taylor days. I can't understand why it came out on Verve when MGM had a perfectly serviceable, though bland, R&B label, Cub, at the time; but there we are.

MG

The Quotations were a white vocal group - I'd forgotten all about them and that record until you mentioned it - so perhaps that's why they weren't on the r&b Cub label.

Could be - but I did have the feeling that the Impalas were white, too.

MG

[paul secor]

Blues Project, Laura Nero, The Hombres, Janis Ian...

They were on Verve-Forecast (as was John Lee Hooker), which was intended as a Folk music label (and probably wasn't managed by Creed Taylor), though the "folk" credentials of a good a good few of those artists don't seem nearly as convincing now as they probably did then.

The Mothers were on Verve.

I've remembered that my cousin had a 45 of a recording of "Imagination" on UK Verve, by some group whose name I don't think I even tried to remember, which was in imitation of the Marcels (does anyone remember the Marcels' "Blue moon"?) and was 1961 or 1962. Now THAT was in the Creed Taylor days. I can't understand why it came out on Verve when MGM had a perfectly serviceable, though bland, R&B label, Cub, at the time; but there we are.

MG

The Quotations were a white vocal group - I'd forgotten all about them and that record until you mentioned it - so perhaps that's why they weren't on the r&b Cub label.

Could be - but I did have the feeling that the Impalas were white, too.

MG

The Impalas were a racially mixed group, so I guess that qualified them for Cub. Isn't America wonderful?

[captainwrong]

All this talk of the non-jazz artists on Verve and not a mention of Howard Tate? There, I just did it.

Get It While You Can is probably my favorite male vocalist Southern Soul album, and no less than Otis Redding declared it the bible of Southern Soul. If also has some of the most pointless Leonard Feather notes I've read and was probably the album that turned me off reading liner notes.

[Stereojack]

Cub was a subsidiary of MGM created long before they acquired Verve.

The Quotations were on Verve long before the label was acquired by MGM.

[Hot Ptah]

The Mothers were on Verve.

Weren't they on their own (?) label BIZARRE that was distributed through Verve?

From what I have read in books about Zappa, the first few Mothers albums were on Verve, but Verve's censorship of the "We're Only In It For The Money" album led Zappa to leave Verve for another label.

[BruceH]

He may be a "mere mortal" but I happen to love Flip Phillips. Junior Mance isn't exactly chopped liver, either.

[paul secor]

All this talk of the non-jazz artists on Verve and not a mention of Howard Tate? There, I just did it.

Get It While You Can is probably my favorite male vocalist Southern Soul album, and no less than Otis Redding declared it the bible of Southern Soul. If also has some of the most pointless Leonard Feather notes I've read and was probably the album that turned me off reading liner notes.

Howard Tate and writer/producer Jerry Ragavoy were both from Philadelphia - Tate was born in Ga., but was raised in Philly. Maybe they were from South Philly?

But hey, labels of any kind - Southern Soul or whatever - don't mean a lot. It's the music that counts. Great record and great call, Cap.

Edited July 1, 2008 by paul secor

[Free For All]

He may be a "mere mortal" but I happen to love Flip Phillips.

I recently picked up Flip's 80th birthday DVD (mostly because Carl Fontana is on it). A great time, lots of good swinging music.

[king ubu]

Phillips did a lovely album again for "Verve" (or rather the UMG or Vivendi or whatever corporation) in the late 90s, "Swing's the Thing":

I love the Phillips/Ventura Mosaic, tons of great music on that one! Should take it out again!

Oh, and what about Kid Ory on Verve? Did Verve do more dixieland stuff? Similar to the Living Legends series or those Atlantic albums on the respective Mosaic?

[Swinging Swede]

George Lewis did I think 9 albums for Verve in 1956-1960, roughly the same time Ory recorded for Verve. AFAIK only one album has been out on a Japanese CD. A Mosaic box of those recordings would be a nice sequel to both the OOP Ory Verve box and the OOP Lewis Blue Note box.

[clifford_thornton]

As HG mentioned, Alan Shorter (during the Creed Taylor years).

Haden and I talked a bit about it, but neither he nor I knew the circumstances of the record's actual release on Verve (as in "why them"). I have it on a UK Polydor issue, fwiw, that for some reason mentions that as its first release, a "curiosity for discographers."

[Chuck Nessa]

As HG mentioned, Alan Shorter (during the Creed Taylor years).

Haden and I talked a bit about it, but neither he nor I knew the circumstances of the record's actual release on Verve (as in "why them"). I have it on a UK Polydor issue, fwiw, that for some reason mentions that as its first release, a "curiosity for discographers."

I don't think it was actually released. I was in record retailing at the time and every copy I saw was a promo.

[clifford_thornton]

Really? I've never had the US Verve issue so that's interesting to me.

[Chuck Nessa]

Big, day-glow, orange sticker on the front of a black jacket.

[Stereojack]

Oh, and what about Kid Ory on Verve? Did Verve do more dixieland stuff? Similar to the Living Legends series or those Atlantic albums on the respective Mosaic?

Turk Murphy, Lu Watters, and Bob Scobey all recorded for Verve during the Granz years.

[clifford_thornton]

Big, day-glow, orange sticker on the front of a black jacket.

Seen several offered without.

[JSngry]

Now, how 'bout them comedy records? Berman (hits, right?), Sahl, etc.? Granz-era, right?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Now, how 'bout them comedy records? Berman (hits, right?), Sahl, etc.? Granz-era, right?

Yes, the first three Berman LPs (Inside, Outside and Edge) sold BIG! All top 10 hits and on the chart for more than a year - Inside for 2.5 years. And those were the days when there were only 40/50 LPs on the chart; not 200.

Sahl had one hit on Verve; not a big one.

In those days, you didn't get mega-huge sales. None of those Bermans sold half a million, according to RIAA. But it seems clear that there was a good deal more profit in the comedy albums than the jazz. Only Ella mamnaged to get on the pop charts for Verve in those days and only scraping in for a few weeks. But her stuff sold very consistently - the Gershwin songbook made the charts in 1964 - five years after it issued. But it seems certain that the comedy albums subsidised the jazz to an extent.

As comedy albums, I'm not too keen on them. I used to have three Berman LPs in the early sixties and laughed a lot at them. But they soon wore out and much of the humour became extremely dated (whereas Marx Bros from the thirties and many of Peter Sellers' recordings from the fifties/sixties still seem very funny to me - so it isn't just a question of age).

MG

[Big Beat Steve]

Comedy albums subsidising jazz albums ...

Makes you wonder to what extent Moms Mabley and Pigmeat Markham subsidised the jazz/blues output of the Chess label in the 60s?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Comedy albums subsidising jazz albums ...

Makes you wonder to what extent Moms Mabley and Pigmeat Markham subsidised the jazz/blues output of the Chess label in the 60s?

You must be joking! When you think about the many hit singles and albums that Ramsey Lewis had (19 hit LPs on Argo/Cadet). Plus 4 Ahmad Jamals, 2 Odell Browns, 2 Ray Bryants, 2 Kenny Burrells, and a John Klemmer.

On the blues side, there was Little Milton, whose records wouldn't need subsidising - nor those of Koko Taylor and Tommy Tucker. And big catalogue sales for the fifties material.

Course, Moms DID have a lot of hit albums on Chess.

MG

[AndrewHill]

Don't remember if the Jack Kerouac record was mentioned, which seemed like a peculiar project for Verve.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Holy Ghost

[Big Beat Steve]

MG, I wasn't joking, I was really just wondering ... (as I do not have any figures to back up my question).

Because it DOES make you wonder if you look at the 60s CHESS LP release lists and for a time one out of three (or even two) LP's was one by those comedians. And their heavy presence on some Chess inner sleeves promoting other current releases also might be a pointer ...