Tristano school stuff

[T.D.]

38 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Good sleuthing. Did Ferrara study with Tristano too?

Yes.

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/don-ferrara-mn0000642029/biography

[Larry Kart]

4 hours ago, adh1907 said:

On the subject of the Tristano school, can anyone explain Warne Marsh’s bubblegum embouchure in the 50s? So weird, I would love to emulate it, if someone could explain the theory and practice??

 

Not being a saxophonist myself, what do you mean by bubblegum embouchure? I vaguely recall once speculating that Warne liked to his use mouth/throat as a resonating chamber as much as possible -- Is that something like it?

[JSngry]

Check out that lateral/diagonal jaw movement. It violates damn near ever "rule". I don't know that it was a permanent thing with him, though?

Some singers would do that on occasion, there's a clip or two of Herb Jeffries that are insane with that. Go to "Baby Won't You Please Come Home" here 

 

[Larry Kart]

18 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Check out that lateral/diagonal jaw movement. It violates damn near ever "rule". I don't know that it was a permanent thing with him, though?

Some singers would do that on occasion, there's a clip or two of Herb Jeffries that are insane with that. Go to "Baby Won't You Please Come Home" here 

 

I think this may fit my previous speculation. Isn't Warne, like Jeffries,  out to spontaneously alter/adjust the acoustic properties of his mouth/throat combo -- the resulting alterations/adjustments, in Warne's case, emerging from his horn?

[JSngry]

I know nothing about singing, but it seems, in both cases, that there is no audible correlation between the physical actions and the audible outcomes. Especially in Warne's case. 

[JSngry]

Not a lot of footage to determine one way or the other...

[Larry Kart]

Isn't there possible parallel between what Warne is doing and the extremely oblique way Pres often held his horn, the latter approach leading to/enabling audible shifts in timbre/sonic density? Albeit with Warne those shifts are more on a micro level.

 

[JSngry]

Arthur Prysock working the jaw:

 

[clifford_thornton]

reading this thread is interesting. I never completely connected with Crothers though I never had such a strong negative reaction to the music, either. Glad she was here to do what she did for sure. And Yoko is great. 

[Quasimado]

Gotta love it - from Warne to Herb Jeffries to Arthur Prysock! Only on Organissimo!

[Chuck Nessa]

24 minutes ago, Quasimado said:

Gotta love it - from Warne to Herb Jeffries to Arthur Prysock! Only on Organissimo!

LOL!

[Simon8]

Listening to this album mentioned here on page 1: 

 Quite interesting quartet (live) album, with trumpet as the sole horn.
 

Edited Friday at 08:09 PM by Simon8

[Late]

I started rereading this thread and thought, "I know what albums I'd recommend."  I kept scrolling and then discovered I already had...six years ago.😐

I need to spin that Lenny Popkin album soon. 

[adh1907]

Am I right in thinking the Tristano influence has really faded in the past few years? Apart from Mark Turner, I’m not that familiar with many musicians suggesting Tristano , Marsh or Konitz as an influence. Could be me being out of date. A few years back,  there was a definite increase in interest but seems less now. 

[clifford_thornton]

Matthew Shipp -- specifically influenced by Sal Mosca and Warne Marsh. I realize Matt has been on the scene for quite a while, but he still champions that music.

[Simon8]

This recent release (fall 2025) was discussed on another thread :

(That's vol. 4: I see that the same band released the first three "Tristano Project" 20 years ago (!). I like that one).    

The excellent, young-ish Spanish pianist Marta Sanchez also has a Tristano filiation: Memories of Connie Crothers (by Marta Sanchez) | DO THE M@TH

Edited 18 hours ago by Simon8