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Tristano school stuff


Nate Dorward
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Have not listened in a long while but 25 years ago I thought she was interesting and the last thing I heard was the New Artists disc called Love Energy with Popkin. This must be something Sangrey was reacting to but I think this is an overreaction.

Perhaps, but what I heard our of Carothers on those two sides was a total lack of subtlety and a false sense of "freedom". Her rhythmic feel was plodding and banging, her lines were random to a point far past careless, and her choice of chords seemed to have as its only logic the principle that all notes work at any time, which they do, but only if you have a grander design in mind. I didn't hear one out of her. All I heard was piano that was played with a sense of "I dare you to call this wrong!" Well, ok. I'm calling it wrong, and I'm calling it a wreckless degeneration of the whole Tristano concept. Popkin noodled along nicely as if nothing was happening behind him, and you can take that any way you want...

If y'all say that Connie Carothers has done some interesting work elsewhere, fair enough. But I would hope that it's not the same type of music I heard on Jazz Spring & In Motion. They almost sound like a cruel, clueless parody of a great, great wellspring of modern music. Yeah, I most definitely had a reaction to it.

then again, maybe I was just in a bad mood. Been happening a lot lately. But this stuff sure didn't make it any better...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Another bump to this thread because my Xmas packet from Cadence just arrived -- I ordered a pile of Zinnias--Mosca's Trickle, Live in Valhalla, Halperin/Mosca's Psalm--& also Billy Lester's quartet disc on Coppens, Four on Four. Haven't listened to Trickle yet, but the other three... man, those are good discs. I'm quite impressed by Mosca's variety from album to album (in part, I suppose, an artifact of great differences in recording-quality, occasion, & in the case of Thing-Ah-Majig health). The rhapsodic, romantic quality of the Valhalla set for instance took me by surprise. & Mosca has his own (very capacious) bag, not just literal Tristanoisms.

The Lester's a lot of fun--anyone heard that?

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After so thoroughly (and sincerly) bad-mouthing Ms. Crothers' work, it would be dishonest of me not to mention that I have since heard this pleasurable album:

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Crothers herself still raises more questions (not necessarily good ones) than she answers here, but I do hear something that I hadn't heard (like, a conscience...) in previous encounters with her music. So I'll back off the previous diatribe. At least somewhat.

The real trip on this side though, is Richard Tabnik, whose alto playing combines a Dolphy-esque sound and sense of attack with lines and shapes that recall, of all things, Teo Macero's tenor playing w/Mingus. How's that for a stylistic link - Teo & Dolphy? Wow....

Poet Mark Webeer also contributes a few things here, and they are all quite nice. There's a tribute to Warne that is all Beat just like you'd (probably) expect it to be, but it works, and it's true. Quite moving, actually.

I lived in Albuquerque for a couple years in the very early 1980s, and there was nothing like this going on ("So What" was considered "modern"!). But this side has me wondering if I should move back. Probably not, but....

Anyway, this is a good side, recommended with considered enthusiasm. You gotta be into Tristano, and you gotta be into post-Tristano Tristano-ites for what/who they are, and you gotta dig a little poetry here and there. But if none of that isn't a problem, I can safely say that this one will bring at least a little pleasure. It certainly don't suck!

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  • 14 years later...

Sorry to bump up a very old thread, but, since Lee Konitz's death earlier this year, I have been listening to a lot of his music from the 60s and 70s (e.g., Satori, Lone-Lee and Motion) along with wonderful albums like Ne Plus Ultra and All Music by Warne Marsh. 

This had not been an area of jazz that I had explored or really thought about previously.  I am very impressed at how neither of them is willing to play to expectations at all, whilst producing such strongly idiomatic work. 

I wondered if there are any other "Tristano-esque" (taking that term in the very loosest way possible) LPs or CDs (as opposed to box sets) that others on this board really love and would recommend. 

Edited by Rabshakeh
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1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

Sorry to bump up a very old thread, but, since Lee Konitz's death earlier this year, I have been listening to a lot of his music from the 60s and 70s (e.g., Satori, Lone-Lee and Motion) along with wonderful albums like Ne Plus Ultra and All Music by Warne Marsh. 

This had not been an area of jazz that I had explored or really thought about previously.  I am very impressed at how neither of them is willing to play to expectations at all, whilst producing such strongly idiomatic work. 

I wondered if there are any other "Tristano-esque" (taking that term in the very loosest way possible) LPs or CDs (as opposed to box sets) that others on this board really love and would recommend. 

This is outstanding but most of the versions seem to be cdrs. If I didn't have the original, I would buy the cdr.

5182Ja4yZVL.jpg

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4 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

This is outstanding but most of the versions seem to be cdrs. If I didn't have the original, I would buy the cdr.

5182Ja4yZVL.jpg

I didn't know about the existence of this but I got excited till I saw the date.  I saw these 3 guys in Toronto but probably probably 20-25 years later. (Can't remember who was with them.) 

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8 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Sorry to bump up a very old thread, but, since Lee Konitz's death earlier this year, I have been listening to a lot of his music from the 60s and 70s (e.g., Satori, Lone-Lee and Motion) along with wonderful albums like Ne Plus Ultra and All Music by Warne Marsh. 

This had not been an area of jazz that I had explored or really thought about previously.  I am very impressed at how neither of them is willing to play to expectations at all, whilst producing such strongly idiomatic work. 

I wondered if there are any other "Tristano-esque" (taking that term in the very loosest way possible) LPs or CDs (as opposed to box sets) that others on this board really love and would recommend. 

You can’t go wrong digging as deep as possible in Warne Marsh’s discography. The Montmarte sides w/ Konitz on Storyville are as essential as the 50s pairings; a very affordable 4CD box compiles them. Warne Out and How Deep, How High are two in particular that also stand out. 

As far as more recent expressions of the style, this disc is a personal favorite https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/michael-kanan-nat-su-albums/4046-dreams-and-reflections.html

Edited by colinmce
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10 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

This is outstanding but most of the versions seem to be cdrs. If I didn't have the original, I would buy the cdr.

5182Ja4yZVL.jpg

Thanks. I hadn’t realised that all three of them had actually recorded together. I will track it down, CD-r or no.

3 hours ago, colinmce said:

You can’t go wrong digging as deep as possible in Warne Marsh’s discography. The Montmarte sides w/ Konitz on Storyville are as essential as the 50s pairings; a very affordable 4CD box compiles them. Warne Out and How Deep, How High are two in particular that also stand out. 

As far as more recent expressions of the style, this disc is a personal favorite https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/michael-kanan-nat-su-albums/4046-dreams-and-reflections.html

Thank you. I randomly bought a scuzzy vinyl copy of Jazz Exchange Vol 1 a few weeks ago, and it’s absolutely great. I’ll check out the other (two?) volumes.  Warne Out and How Deep are going on the list too.

Thanks for the Kanan / Su recommendation, which sounds intriguing.  There are a few references in the original thread to other, then current, players in this sort of vein, like Connie Crothers or Jimmy Halperin. If anyone has any views on them or others or any albums that they’d recommend, those would be very welcome too.

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1 hour ago, Clunky said:

Don't forget  Ted Brown he's still going now into his nineties. I love "Jazz for two cities" (Imperial/London), fifties date co-led with Warne Marsh but for me i've enjoyed everything he's recorded.

Interesting. It has a nice cover: I can imagine it would great on LP. On the list and many thanks. 

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On 7/15/2020 at 2:43 PM, Rabshakeh said:

I wondered if there are any other "Tristano-esque" ... LPs or CDs ... that others on this board really love and would recommend. 

R-3531417-1334113455.jpeg.jpg

Connie Crothers: Perception
I love this album. I haven't actually heard much Crothers outside of this one ("Swish" and a few others), but I keep coming back to this Steeplechase effort. If you're going to try just one Crothers album, I'd make it this one.

R-6604996-1432622804-7092.jpeg.jpg

Lenny Popkin: Falling Free
Great trio record under the Warne Marsh influence. Popkin takes more chances here than he did/does later on. This album holds up over time.

 

image-asset.jpeg?format=750w

Liz Gorill: Dreamflight

Say what you will about Gorrill (I didn't know that she changed her name), but this 1990 solo album is very good.

 

Also get that Konitz Half Note album (on Verve) pictured above. And if you can find that 1965 Tristano solo concert on DVD, it's very much worth owning.

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  • 1 year later...

Trombonist Willie Dennis studied and played with Tristano ("Chicago April 1951", on Uptown, or Ronnie Ball's "All About Ronnie" on Savoy).

Trumpet: Don Ferrara? (on Lee Konitz's "Very Cool" with tristanoites Sal Mosca and Peter Ind)

Edited by Simon8
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2 hours ago, Simon8 said:

Trombonist Willie Dennis studied and played with Tristano ("Chicago April 1951", on Uptown, or Ronnie Ball's "All About Ronnie" on Savoy).

Trumpet: Don Ferrara? (on Lee Konitz's "Very Cool" with tristanoites Sal Mosca and Peter Ind)

Good sleuthing. Did Ferrara study with Tristano too?

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