False Dawns in Hi-Fi

[sidewinder]

That's the name! Never heard one but I do recall them being mentioned, I think, on Peter Clayton's late Sunday night Jazz on 2 programme.

Indeed. I'm showing my age a bit here but I can recollect a whole show dedicated to those Direct Cut disks in that timeframe. I think he played offerings by the LA4 ('Pavane Pour Une Infante Defunte' - I have that one), quite possibly Joe Sample ('The Trio') and possibly Rob McConnell Boss Brass but I could be wrong. How's that for memory !

Edited July 30, 2009 by sidewinder

[Jazzmoose]

Anybody else have an 8-track recorder back then? I had one in my stereo back in '76; it was great for doing things like making a tape loop of White Rabbit endlessly repeating for those 'enhanced' evenings...

[Claude]

b) Direct to disc records - I recall these from the late 70s/early 80s - never completely understood them but it had something to do with the disc being cut as recording took place. I might have the name wrong. There were some jazz titles but limited numbers prevented this from ever being more than a minority interest.

That's right. It was a niche product. The aim was to get rid of the tape recording, considered to be an intermediate step that reduced the sound quality, especially the dynamics. But the practical limitations were important: The playing time was limited to about 15-17 minutes per side, which had to be played live without interruption. The number of records that could be made from a direct-to-disc master was limited to a few thousand pressings. But of course a regular record could be made from the parallel tape recording.

Herbie Hancock's japan-only release "Dedication" was direct-to-disc:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...10:axfoxqthldje

Direct to Disc was abandonned by audiophile labels as digital recording appeared, which was - at the time - considered to be so superor to analogue tape that it made direct-to-disc superfluous.

d) The multi-CD autochanger in the boot of the car!!!!!

I'm no expert on this (I never had a car), but I think they were quite succesful, before MP3 playback for the car appeared.

e) SACD - I've no reason to doubt the superior sound of these (I've never heard one) but this one clearly took music reproducing technology to a level where most listeners had no need to follow. I believe they are still being made.

SACD has now become mostly a format for classical recordings (with multichannel sound)

http://www.sa-cd.net/recent

DAT and DCC should not be mentionned together. DAT was a highly successful format on the professional studio market (as well as a backup medium for computer data), while Philips' DCC failed completely (direct competitor to Sony's Minidisc which was was much more advanced, being a disc format).

Edited July 30, 2009 by Claude

[Jazzjet]

I've often thought that there's got to be a workable business model for physical record shops today. Something that combines the physical ambience of a shop with the modern technology of digital downloads. Not sure what it is though - otherwise I would have made some money!

Can I suggest you don't experiment in Redruth!

78s have only just arrived in Redruth.

[JSngry]

The limitations of the lp format are rarely discussed.

Storage space and amount of sonic information that can be put on one, but what else that I'm not thinking of? I still believe that the properly recorded analog LP (or 78 for that matter? but my experience there is limited) with the proper playback equipment can sound as good as a properly recorded digital CD with etc. Some would say sounds better than, but I've never done the necessary scrupulous A/B comparisons, usually preferring to listen to music.

Chuck would know the specifics better than I, but you had to play games with the bass if the side ran too long.

[jeffcrom]

Anybody else have an 8-track recorder back then? I had one in my stereo back in '76; it was great for doing things like making a tape loop of White Rabbit endlessly repeating for those 'enhanced' evenings...

I borrowed an 8-track recorder and made a tape of original music for a girl (of course) when I was in high school - around 1975. I even "multi-tracked" by recording on piano, then playing that tape on another machine with a microphone in front of a speaker while I played sax into another microphone. I can't imagine what that stuff would sound like now.

I also installed an 8-track player in my first car (1976). It was great because every discount department store (K-Mart, etc.) would have a rack of cut-out 8-tracks for a dollar or so each. (I seem to remember $1.88 as being a common price, for some reason.) I was into jazz even then - some of the tapes I remember buying from the discount racks were Gil Evans' Ampex album, The Best of Horace Silver, a nice Jimmie Lunceford collection (!), and some Herbie Hancock.

[David Ayers]

Well, CD caught on, but....

Of all formats the one bound to vanish soonest and leaving no trace is the download - try dropping your (worthless) stack of these in the charity store...

Edited July 30, 2009 by David Ayers

[Drew Peacock]

Downloads will become uploads as soon as Cloud computing catches on. It can't happen fast enough for me. It will add a new legal issue around sharing of copywrite material.

[Dan Gould]

a) The 8 Track cartridge - surely the ugliest innovation of all time!

I did a year or so of college radio in 1985. I was surprised to discover that 8 tracks were still being used, though not for music. Our 30 second public service announcements (or those we didn't read) were on 8 track.

Those were called "carts" and were played on a "cart deck". I may be wrong but I am fairly certain that while there were superficial similarities, these were not true "8 Track cartridges".

As for the multi-CD changer for the car, my wife has one, and there were many, many options to choose from when I bought it for her. I can imagine though that the I-Pod/MP3 era has changed that.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Dan Gould

[papsrus]

How about this little beauty?

The stereo egg chair:

I remember thinking when I was a kid that these things were the coolest thing ever invented. (Never mind that I'd not actually experienced one). They don't look all that comfortable now. Only $1,600 plus shipping.

And this junior model looks like that character on South Park who gets offed every episode:

[Jazzmoose]

I thought this was an interesting graph of various media, but unfortunately not all discussed here are represented:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/08/...blow.ready.html

Of course, as they say, consider the source: the RIAA.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jazzmoose

[Big Beat Steve]

One sales gimmick that does not seem to have been mentioned here yet and that I remember from the mid- to late70s when Quadrophony seemed to be all the rage was another highest-of-fi attribute (promoted at about the time Quadrophony was tha latest rage) called "Kunstkopf" (Dummy Head) here.

From a recording angle it may have been viable but somehow those sales blurbs of this being the ULTIMATE in stereophony (making "ordinary" stereo records appear extremely old hat next to this "Dummy Head" thing and Quadropphony) appeared a bit strange to me, especially as the LPs that you could buy to take in this sound experience were VERY few. And who'd want to HAVE to listen to his music with HEADPHONES all the time anyway?

[mikeweil]

I bought some artifical head recordings back then - problem was they only sounded really good on headphones. There were some great radio drama productions in that mode in Germany.

I'm a fan of SACD, and I think it will stay around for a while, at least in the classical field. Many smaller companies release them, and there is a stable market for them in Japan.

The point about SACD is not just the surround aspect, but the high resolution which yields best results with recordings in natural acoustics with minimal miking - the old Contemporary sessions or any jazz recorded with just two mikes sounds great in high resolution.

Another advance would be the increased playing time of single layer stereo SACDS - BIS in Sweden released some single layer CDS with over 4 hours of music! Of course they can be played back only on SACD equipped players ... I'd go for Bird's complete Savoy studio sessions or Miles' complete Prestige Quintets with Trane in a minute!

http://www.sa-cd.net

[Niko]

I thought this was an interesting graph of various media, but unfortunately not all discussed here are represented:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/08/...blow.ready.html

Of course, as they say, consider the source: the RIAA.

hmm looks indeed as if for the first time we have a decline in the biggest medium which is not backed up by a simlarly sized increase elsewhere... looks as if their service isn't needed anymore...

Edited August 3, 2009 by Niko

[Stonewall15]

For you really old-timers out there- do you remember the 1957 or 58 Dodge automobile that had an option for a turn-table that actually slid out from under the dash? As you can imagine it was not very good except when the car was not moving. It only lasted as an option for a short while but I'll bet one now on a vintage Dodge would really be a terrific collectable.

[Chuck Nessa]

They played at 16 rpm - not much software for them.

[Big Beat Steve]

Stonewall, that was not even THAT uncommon, at least not in Europe. Philips made a car turntable (45 rpm) called AUTO-MIGNON as a spinoff of their "MIGNON" 45rpm players (that were marketed as a battery-operated carry-along for beach parties etc.). In both cases you slid the record into a slot (much in the same way you do with cassettes/cartridges) and the record would play. This was widely available as an accessory for any marque of cars for quite a few years in teh 50s/early 60s. Nice gadget but HEAVY (literally) on groove wear of the records, probably even worse than jukeboxes.

And yet these things have been fetching big money among car (and car audio) collectors.

[BruceH]

Our 1965 stereo's turntable played 16 2/3, but I never saw such a record.

When I was a little kid I remember seeing lots of turntables that had speed-settings for 78, 45, 33 1/3, and 16 2/3. I remember asking about the lowest speed, but no one seemed to know what it was for, and I also never saw record for that speed. Since then, I've heard that it was for spoken-word analog discs, but they must have been uncommon, at least by the mid-60's.

I was going to mention mini-(CD)discs, but several people beat me to it. As I recall, part of the reason that the format died quickly in the US was suspicion on the part of the consumer. A lot of people, myself included, were mighty leery of a new format being foisted on them by the recording industry barely 10 years after the introduction of the CD.

As for 50's reel-to-reel, Art Pepper recorded some excellent material for "Omega-tape."

[Larry Kart]

There were some 16 2/3 LPs on Prestige IIRC.

[Chuck Nessa]

Prestige had an 16 2/3 rpm series for a while.

Larry beat me.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Chuck Nessa

[Guest Bill Barton]

...DAT and DCC should not be mentionned together. DAT was a highly successful format on the professional studio market (as well as a backup medium for computer data), while Philips' DCC failed completely (direct competitor to Sony's Minidisc which was was much more advanced, being a disc format.

DAT was indeed successful in professional studios and in broadcast operations. I recorded a lot of music using DAT machines - both in-studio and on-location - when I was at WCFE-FM, Mountain-Lake Public Radio in the early to mid-1990s. I don't recall the brand or model of the DAT recorders we had, but they were far from foolproof. In fact, they were downright squirrelly little monsters.

[Guest Bill Barton]

a) The 8 Track cartridge - surely the ugliest innovation of all time!

I did a year or so of college radio in 1985. I was surprised to discover that 8 tracks were still being used, though not for music. Our 30 second public service announcements (or those we didn't read) were on 8 track.

Those were called "carts" and were played on a "cart deck". I may be wrong but I am fairly certain that while there were superficial similarities, these were not true "8 Track cartridges"...

You're absolutely correct there, Dan. Carts and 8-tracks were very different animals. The only real similarity is that now they're both obsolete.

[Matthew]

I have a soft place in my heart for 8-track, my first 8-track buy was this:

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

might as well face it youre addicted to love

[Quincy]

a) The 8 Track cartridge - surely the ugliest innovation of all time!

I did a year or so of college radio in 1985. I was surprised to discover that 8 tracks were still being used, though not for music. Our 30 second public service announcements (or those we didn't read) were on 8 track.

Those were called "carts" and were played on a "cart deck". I may be wrong but I am fairly certain that while there were superficial similarities, these were not true "8 Track cartridges"...

You're absolutely correct there, Dan. Carts and 8-tracks were very different animals. The only real similarity is that now they're both obsolete.

Well I was pretty baked much of the time. It was college radio after all...