Rooster_Ties Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Two things I'd like to suggest we discuss here (in further honor of Mr. Silver, RIP) "Outside the norm" tracks from Horace Silver's entire catalog (and/or live recordings) -- where he delivered something a little different than maybe what (some of) his audience was used to expecting. Both good, or bad (or anything in-between) -- what are some of the more "interesting" examples of times Silver went a little outside his usual comfort zone(s).Sidemen that Horace worked with in his bands that either weren't as well known (generally speaking), or that most people never realized ever worked with Horace. For instance, are there any notable members of his LIVE bands that didn't get documented on record? - or maybe just barely documented? Or sidemen who only played on one or two albums of his, that are easy to overlook? (Or even easy to forget ever worked with Silver entirely.)EDIT: And here's a third idea we can also include: Were there any former sidemen he "reunited" with in later years, that he had played/recorded with earlier? I'm guessing probably live on stage, more likely than on record - but examples of either would be welcome. I think my first example (two versions of the same tune) from Youtube cover BOTH of the first two topics well.... I've always loved the title track from "In Pursuit of the 27th Man" -- with David Friedman on vibes(!), plus Bob Cranshaw on electric bass, and plus Mickey Roker. This track is notably less traditionally "funky" or "hard-bop"-oriented than Silver's output in general, and also the rest of the same album in particular. It features some killer "slightly-out"-leaning solos from Friedman, over mostly static harmonies, and an incessant electric bass-line from Cranshaw that (oddly enough) reminds me a whole lot of the sound of some tracks off Charlie Rouse's "Two Is One" (Strata East, 1973) - from almost the same year. Studio version: Rare live version with two-horn front-line: Edited June 21, 2014 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Perusal of the Silveto catalog will provide a few items fitting your criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Maybe Dave Douglas would feature in your 'sideman' category. I didn't know that he'd worked with Horace until this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 What do we think of "usual" for Horace Silver? I'm genuinely asking because I am far from an expert on his music, and was really blown away by some of the late 60s small group live performances up on YouTube. Far "tougher" and more dissonant from what I expected, but then I began digging into BN studio dates from the '59-'61 period and they carried far more "heft" than I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Maybe Dave Douglas would feature in your 'sideman' category. I didn't know that he'd worked with Horace until this week. I believe John McNeil as well. Perusal of the Silveto catalog will provide a few items fitting your criteria. Yeah, Eddie WHO? is all up in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Here's an interesting near miss: Marcus Belgrave tells me he was offered the job with Horace in 58 -- the gig would go to Blue Mitchell -- but he turned it down because he had just gotten off the road with Ray Charles and was settling into NY and didn't want to return to the grind so soon after unpacking his suitcase. At the same time, Marcus also turned down Ellington, who knew about him because Clark Terry and Ray Nance had played alongside Marcus on "The Genius of Ray Charles" sessions. Edited June 20, 2014 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 What do we think of "usual" for Horace Silver? I'm genuinely asking because I am far from an expert on his music, and was really blown away by some of the late 60s small group live performances up on YouTube. Far "tougher" and more dissonant from what I expected, but then I began digging into BN studio dates from the '59-'61 period and they carried far more "heft" than I remember. I'd strongly recommend "The Cape Verdean Blues" with Woody Shaw and Joe Henderson on the front line and, if it's issued somewhere, the live Half Note recordings by that same band. Super aggressive and Woody and Joe really push within with the structures. Very sorry that band didn't record more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Bill Hardman was part of a 1968 LIVE band (remember there is footage available via the net) , but believe he never recorded with Horace Silver........ Edited June 20, 2014 by soulpope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ron Bridgewater did a tour w/Horace too. shared the front line with John McNeil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Maybe Dave Douglas would feature in your 'sideman' category. I didn't know that he'd worked with Horace until this week. I believe John McNeil as well. Perusal of the Silveto catalog will provide a few items fitting your criteria. Yeah, Eddie WHO? is all up in there. and Junior Cook rejoined much to his dismay. Did anyone say Clark Terry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 I like the trio stuff on Blue note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Brian Lynch and Ralph Moore were the frontline in 1982. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 the seven bar ballad on the very good "Further Explorations" album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Red Holloway recorded with Horace on one of his later sessions. Was it on the Columbia label? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Probably not all that obscure, but Horace with vocalist Bill Henderson on "Senor Blues" and "Tippin'". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I always have liked The Hardbop Grandpop for "late" Horace (Ronnie Cuber, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Brian Lynch and Ralph Moore were the frontline in 1982. And in 1985. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Louis Hayes plays on "Prescription for the Blues" (Impulse) from 1997 -- 38 years after he last worked with Silver. "Prescription" turned out to be Silver's second to last recording. Both Randy and Michael Brecker returns as well, and the bassist is Ron Carter. There's a really lovely trio track on that record called "Brother John and Brother Gene" that Horace wrote for his siblings. It's a ballad with a strong melody, some typically impeccable voice-leading and moving inner details in the arrangement and chromatic movement in the changes that tickles the ear. If I were putting together a set list for a Horace tribute and looking for off-the-beaten path repertoire, this tune would be a great place to start. Coda: Curious that for most of Louis' tenure in the band in the '50s the bassist was a Detroiter -- Doug Watkins at first and Gene Taylor at the end. (Teddy Kotick was in between,.) Nearly 40 years later when the drummer returned for a one-off recording he ended up working with another Detroit bassist, Ron Carter. Edited June 21, 2014 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I remember seeing Horace Silver and the United States of Mind on WNET when I was a kid. He had the guitarist Richie Resnikoff with him back then. I only knew RR from Buddy Rich's Big Band records. I've done a few gigs with John McNeil, I didn't know he worked with HS. Did they record together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 No records. I only knew about it b/c of a conversation I had w/McNeil in 1979, he talked about how he got the call and had to learn the whole book in something like overnight, b/c as noted elsewhere, Horace didn't allow reading on his bandstand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Horace's last studio album recorded in 1998 with Ryan Kisor, Jimmy Greene, John Webber and Willie Jones III. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_Has_a_Sense_of_Humor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 Personnel from BN discography re: a rejected Silver Tentet date, April 1963 Blue Mitchell, Kenny Dorham, Grachan Moncur III, Julius Watkins, Junior Cook, Jimmy Heath, Charles Davis (baritone), Horace, Gene Taylor, Roy Brooks. Tunes: Silver's Serenade, Sweet Sweetie Dee, Nineteen Bars, Next Time I Fall In Love, The Dragon Lady & Let's Get To The Nitty Gritty. The quintet version of Silver's Serenade was recorded a few weeks later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Wow, I would really like to hear those tracks by the Tentet. I second "In Pursuit of the 27th Man." To me it has a bit of the sound of Tyner and Hutcherson from 60s/70s. There can't be much of Silver's work featuring guitar. The only stuff I've heard is an early Kenny Burrell session. As far as I know, not even Grant Green (ubiquitous on Blue Note). Edited June 21, 2014 by Milestones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Perusal of the Silveto catalog will provide a few items fitting your criteria. I think I have them all and there are two that are worth getting, Spiritualizing the Senses, which is entirely instrumental and is terrific, with Eddie Harris and Ralph Moore, and the Natives Are Restless Tonight (Emerald), a live recording from 1965. The Natives… did come out on CD, but not Spiritualizing the Senses. Edited June 21, 2014 by kh1958 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 This record never seems to get much notice. I've always thought both Tolliver and Turrentine sound great here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pgYPonXo1s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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