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Posted

I've recently become very taken by the piano playing of Joe Albany and would like to get a better understanding of his concept and technique. I'm wondering if someone can point me toward some educational resources(transcriptions, PhD thesis, or the like)?

 

Posted
53 minutes ago, Jack Pine said:

I've recently become very taken by the piano playing of Joe Albany and would like to get a better understanding of his concept and technique. I'm wondering if someone can point me toward some educational resources(transcriptions, PhD thesis, or the like)?

I can't help you with your specific question, but years ago, I found a number of his LPs for very cheap.  I they are still in the massive "to be cleaned" section.  Thanks for the nudge!

Posted

Glad to return the favor to the forum, it was here that I was first really turned on to him.

I'm just an keen amateur, player and listener, but Albany has a certain something in his playing that I find very attractive. His swing feel is exceptionally infectious, his ideas are clear and compelling, and his concept overall seems very personal. I'm reaching for other players to compare him to, or to get a sense of some of his inspirations, and aside from maybe Monk and Earl Hines, maybe in a way Teddy Wilson, I'm not sure who I could say is the "father" of his style.

Posted (edited)

Wikipedia mentions this article.

  • Russell, Ross (April 1959) "The Legendary Joe Albany". The Jazz Review. pp. 18–19, 40.

If you can somehow secure access to Academia.edu, you can search the full texts of papers there. Looks to be handful of mentions of Joe Albany in their collections.

Also, maybe some bread crumbs here: https://jazzprofiles.blogspot.com/2018/05/joe-albany-portrait-of-legend-by-ira.html

 

Edited by Joe
Posted (edited)

How is the live date (2 volumes, iirc) with and under Warne Marsh’s name (and leadership) in ‘57?

I’ve been eyeing it for a a few months, but haven’t investigated further. This one…

https://www.discogs.com/release/6162661-The-Warne-Marsh-Quartet-Featuring-Joe-Albany-Live-At-Dana-Point-1957

https://www.allmusic.com/album/live-at-dana-point-1957-mw0000719602

Edited by Rooster_Ties
Posted
9 hours ago, Jack Pine said:

I've recently become very taken by the piano playing of Joe Albany and would like to get a better understanding of his concept and technique. I'm wondering if someone can point me toward some educational resources(transcriptions, PhD thesis, or the like)?

 

There's an old forum thread with some potentially useful info, though I fear certain links may be dead:

 

Posted
21 hours ago, Jack Pine said:

I've recently become very taken by the piano playing of Joe Albany and would like to get a better understanding of his concept and technique. I'm wondering if someone can point me toward some educational resources(transcriptions, PhD thesis, or the like)?

 

I can´t offer educational resources since I´m mostly self taught , but what I observed from the few listening experiences is that at the session with Bird , Joe Albany still couldn´t swing and tried somehow to copy what he thought is bebop,  Later he got a more chromatic or "atonal" or "12 tone"  thing into it. Maybe like Dick Twardzik from Boston did, at least from the few stuff I heard from him. So the best thing would be to listen to some of his works and if it is what you like, get a bit "into that thing" and with those impressions you got from it, to bring it into your own playing. Big Ears is always the best start to get into a style, and most of all, find fellow musicians who would dig that thing also.....

Posted
6 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I can´t offer educational resources since I´m mostly self taught , but what I observed from the few listening experiences is that at the session with Bird , Joe Albany still couldn´t swing and tried somehow to copy what he thought is bebop,  Later he got a more chromatic or "atonal" or "12 tone"  thing into it. Maybe like Dick Twardzik from Boston did, at least from the few stuff I heard from him. So the best thing would be to listen to some of his works and if it is what you like, get a bit "into that thing" and with those impressions you got from it, to bring it into your own playing. Big Ears is always the best start to get into a style, and most of all, find fellow musicians who would dig that thing also.....

I'm not that strong with piano transcription, but have been taking a go at some Joe, and would agree this is a superior way to get an understanding of a style. I would also agree the recordings he did with Bird are not his best work, he sounds very unsure. I would encourage you to check out the 'Portrait Of A Legend' recordings from the 60s, he is swinging hard there.

Posted
7 hours ago, Jack Pine said:

I'm not that strong with piano transcription, but have been taking a go at some Joe, and would agree this is a superior way to get an understanding of a style. I would also agree the recordings he did with Bird are not his best work, he sounds very unsure. I would encourage you to check out the 'Portrait Of A Legend' recordings from the 60s, he is swinging hard there.

Interesting about Joe's work with Bird in that 1946 recording. His playing is certainly unsure, especially when compared to the great sides he made with Lester in the same year (You're Driving me Crazy etc.). No doubt he had erratic periods throughout his life, presumably related to his drug supply - but when he was on, he was great, as you undoubtedly know  ...

Posted

Sure we shouldn´t try to write Joe Albany off for his weak and unsure playing at the Finale with Bird and Miles. He was not alone. With the exception of Bud and sure Hank Jones and some others, many many piano players at the beginning may have been fascinated with bop and what they heard Bird ´n Diz play but couldn´t transpond it to piano, that´s why they sounded "stiff" . Al Haig at Town Hall and at Billy Berg´s in 1945 is no exception , Sadik Hakim or his original name Argonne Thornton sounds strange on the Savoy sides with Bird, melodically and rhytmically "stiff", Duke Jordan also had his problems in the early days. Lou Levy was good ! 

13 hours ago, Jack Pine said:

I'm not that strong with piano transcription, but have been taking a go at some Joe, and would agree this is a superior way to get an understanding of a style. I would also agree the recordings he did with Bird are not his best work, he sounds very unsure. I would encourage you to check out the 'Portrait Of A Legend' recordings from the 60s, he is swinging hard there.

I wish you succes for what you want to get from some of Joe Albany´s style, and if you know records from him from the 60´s where he swings hard, this will be the best way to get into his stuff. And hope you got guys to play with who also dig that stuff. Maybe after some repetitions you can do a gig of a kind of "Albany Memorial" or so, if you find an audience who has heard about him, I wish you luck since I assume you a musician, as this is the musician´s forum . 


I didn´t know the record you mention and must apologize:  In my case there is so little time to listen to records, I got to play and the few times I listen to records it´s mostly to check out a tune if I don´t know it exactly so I have the line and the chords in my memory . That´s why I listened to a Blue Mitchell album 2 days ago which has "Chick´s tune". It´s based on the chords of "You Stepped out of a dream" . Anyway I know the chords, it´s easy cheesy , but you got to know Chick´s line on it, that pedal point section and so..... , so you have to know the stuff to support the horns properly and be "hand in glove" with the drummer and bassist.....

8 hours ago, Jim Duckworth said:

Low Down has also been made into a film.

I hesitated to buy the book since I´m quite thru with books about musician tragedies. I saw too many fellow musicians die to  bear that kind of stuff. Musicians, great musicians I played with and whom I miss. 
But eventually I bought that DVD, since my wife once watched with me "Round Midnite" for several times, and Eastwood´s "Bird" (not as good), and I thought the story daughter and difficult father might go, but first I looked at it alone to be sure how it is, and for me it was bull....., maybe that´s why I also didn´t buy the film about the life of Miles, since I heard it´s also more about the drug stuff........, I´m not a moralist and if someone does that stuff it´s his business, but I don´t want to read about a musician for anything else than his music .......

Posted
16 hours ago, JSngry said:

Read his daughter's book! 

On my list for sure!

6 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

 

I wish you succes for what you want to get from some of Joe Albany´s style, and if you know records from him from the 60´s where he swings hard, this will be the best way to get into his stuff. And hope you got guys to play with who also dig that stuff. Maybe after some repetitions you can do a gig of a kind of "Albany Memorial" or so, if you find an audience who has heard about him, I wish you luck since I assume you a musician, as this is the musician´s forum . 

 

Thanks Gheorghe, I do have a little combo I play with regularly. This is a funny proposition to find an audience for an "Albany Memorial"; I do not live in an area where jazz is very popular. We struggled to get people to come out for something I thought would have broad appeal: a 'Duke Vs. The Count' night. 

Posted

I think the most important resource for getting to know Joe Albany is the 1980 documentary A Jazz Life, which is probably the only video that captures Albany playing. In the second half of the film, he talks about playing with Parker and other jazz greats. A fragment is on YouTube, but the full version is available on Vimeo.

I am also a pianist and what is interesting about Albany is the choppy rhythmic feel and the intertwined style of the right and left hands. Unlike traditional left hand movements, the left hand is rather moving freely. This is a different story from Oscar Peterson or Phineas Newborn Jr. who also had an exceptionally strong left hand, perhaps closer to John Dennis, Oscar Dennard, or even Brad Mehldau in some ways. You can see a little bit of that in the video as well.

Also, a regular contributor of this forum@AllenLowehas performed with Albany (and I believe his enormous ESP recording set included a tune with Albany).  I guess he can give us an interesting insight on Albany from a point of player's view.

Posted
16 hours ago, Jack Pine said:

On my list for sure!

Thanks Gheorghe, I do have a little combo I play with regularly. This is a funny proposition to find an audience for an "Albany Memorial"; I do not live in an area where jazz is very popular. We struggled to get people to come out for something I thought would have broad appeal: a 'Duke Vs. The Count' night. 

You are right, an "Albany Memorial" will not bring in the crowds, they might think it´s a funeral or some of that stuff 😄

I did only two memorials in my live: In 1990 a "Charlie Parker Memorial" and in 2017 a "Dizzy Gillespie Memorial" (100 Years Dizzy). 

But I must admit I´m lucky that in Viena you have audience, there are at least three schools that teach jazz so you have young budding artists and among the audience you may have jazz students.... 

Maybe around here  some jazz buffs  at least might  know who Joe Albany was. 

 

Posted
8 hours ago, mhatta said:

I think the most important resource for getting to know Joe Albany is the 1980 documentary A Jazz Life, which is probably the only video that captures Albany playing. In the second half of the film, he talks about playing with Parker and other jazz greats. A fragment is on YouTube, but the full version is available on Vimeo.

I am also a pianist and what is interesting about Albany is the choppy rhythmic feel and the intertwined style of the right and left hands. Unlike traditional left hand movements, the left hand is rather moving freely. This is a different story from Oscar Peterson or Phineas Newborn Jr. who also had an exceptionally strong left hand, perhaps closer to John Dennis, Oscar Dennard, or even Brad Mehldau in some ways. You can see a little bit of that in the video as well.

Also, a regular contributor of this forum@AllenLowehas performed with Albany (and I believe his enormous ESP recording set included a tune with Albany).  I guess he can give us an interesting insight on Albany from a point of player's view.

This is a great little documentary, some nice clear shots of his hands on the piano. This left hand action you mention is what makes it so difficult for me to transcribe, there is a real unpredictable nature to it, stride like in some sense but also very much his own thing.

I would be very interested to hear from Mr. Lowe and grateful for any insights he has to offer.

Posted
17 hours ago, mhatta said:

I think the most important resource for getting to know Joe Albany is the 1980 documentary A Jazz Life, which is probably the only video that captures Albany playing. In the second half of the film, he talks about playing with Parker and other jazz greats. A fragment is on YouTube, but the full version is available on Vimeo.

I am also a pianist and what is interesting about Albany is the choppy rhythmic feel and the intertwined style of the right and left hands. Unlike traditional left hand movements, the left hand is rather moving freely. This is a different story from Oscar Peterson or Phineas Newborn Jr. who also had an exceptionally strong left hand, perhaps closer to John Dennis, Oscar Dennard, or even Brad Mehldau in some ways. You can see a little bit of that in the video as well.

Also, a regular contributor of this forum@AllenLowehas performed with Albany (and I believe his enormous ESP recording set included a tune with Albany).  I guess he can give us an interesting insight on Albany from a point of player's view.

I only played with Joe at my wedding, but I heard him play many times. He was best in solo, full of wonderfully dense lines - though he was fine with groups, he had these blank spaces where he just got lost - usually only for a few seconds, but they were weird - and I have heard similar things with other former drug and alcohol abusers (Al Haig on rare occasions, Brian Klahrman frequently). But I loved Joe; he really, at his best, had an almost Cecil Taylor-like intensity (listen to the version of I Love You on the home recording he made with Warne Marsh). But here was a guy who had used not just a lot of alcohol but also, as he told me, horse tranquilizer.

Posted (edited)

I will add that the movie made of Joe's daughter's book is probably the best jazz film/bio ever made. Spectacular, and caught Joe perfectly. It was very painful to watch, but worth it.

On 11/16/2022 at 2:18 AM, Gheorghe said:

Sure we shouldn´t try to write Joe Albany off for his weak and unsure playing at the Finale with Bird and Miles. He was not alone. With the exception of Bud and sure Hank Jones and some others, many many piano players at the beginning may have been fascinated with bop and what they heard Bird ´n Diz play but couldn´t transpond it to piano, that´s why they sounded "stiff" . Al Haig at Town Hall and at Billy Berg´s in 1945 is no exception , Sadik Hakim or his original name Argonne Thornton sounds strange on the Savoy sides with Bird, melodically and rhytmically "stiff", Duke Jordan also had his problems in the early days. Lou Levy was good ! 

I wish you succes for what you want to get from some of Joe Albany´s style, and if you know records from him from the 60´s where he swings hard, this will be the best way to get into his stuff. And hope you got guys to play with who also dig that stuff. Maybe after some repetitions you can do a gig of a kind of "Albany Memorial" or so, if you find an audience who has heard about him, I wish you luck since I assume you a musician, as this is the musician´s forum . 


I didn´t know the record you mention and must apologize:  In my case there is so little time to listen to records, I got to play and the few times I listen to records it´s mostly to check out a tune if I don´t know it exactly so I have the line and the chords in my memory . That´s why I listened to a Blue Mitchell album 2 days ago which has "Chick´s tune". It´s based on the chords of "You Stepped out of a dream" . Anyway I know the chords, it´s easy cheesy , but you got to know Chick´s line on it, that pedal point section and so..... , so you have to know the stuff to support the horns properly and be "hand in glove" with the drummer and bassist.....

I hesitated to buy the book since I´m quite thru with books about musician tragedies. I saw too many fellow musicians die to  bear that kind of stuff. Musicians, great musicians I played with and whom I miss. 
But eventually I bought that DVD, since my wife once watched with me "Round Midnite" for several times, and Eastwood´s "Bird" (not as good), and I thought the story daughter and difficult father might go, but first I looked at it alone to be sure how it is, and for me it was bull....., maybe that´s why I also didn´t buy the film about the life of Miles, since I heard it´s also more about the drug stuff........, I´m not a moralist and if someone does that stuff it´s his business, but I don´t want to read about a musician for anything else than his music .......

I have to protest that Haig at Town Hall  - and Billy Berg's, from the airshot I have heard - plays brilliantly. He had it absolutely together. You need to listen again.

check the piano out at 6:51: https://www.google.com/search?q=charlie+parker+town+hall+1945&sxsrf=ALiCzsYP2vFDuDK8f_MFdF4wGao_35qgPw:1668733094675&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxzdSaw7b7AhW2KlkFHfYYAHIQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1584&bih=773&dpr=1.82#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f208174e,vid:ciFjhdeEa5A

better link - piano at 5:23

 

Edited by AllenLowe
Posted
5 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

I will add that the movie made of Joe's daughter's book is probably the best jazz film/bio ever made. Spectacular, and caught Joe perfectly. It was very painful to watch, but worth it.

I have to protest that Haig at Town Hall  - and Billy Berg's, from the airshot I have heard - plays brilliantly. He had it absolutely together. You need to listen again.

check the piano out at 6:51: https://www.google.com/search?q=charlie+parker+town+hall+1945&sxsrf=ALiCzsYP2vFDuDK8f_MFdF4wGao_35qgPw:1668733094675&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxzdSaw7b7AhW2KlkFHfYYAHIQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1584&bih=773&dpr=1.82#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f208174e,vid:ciFjhdeEa5A

better link - piano at 5:23

 

Thank you @AllenLowe for sharing this one. If I remember right, this was the first tune, where Don Byas plays the first solo (possibly because Bird was late on the band stand). 

Okay, yeah, I don´t doubt that Al had a brilliant touch and technique, but I like his solos more on the 1948 broadcasts with Bird from the Royal Roost. In those two years he learned more about bebop phrasing, at least that´s my impression. In the earlier examples from Town Hall and Billy Berg´s , he plays fine, but has to many "stops" from one A section to the other or from the second A to the bridge. It´s what you play there, that makes the thing into a natural "flow", like Bird always did, like Diz and Fats did and Bud Powell did. I just try to say that it is fascinating to hear how Haig at the beginning still had a bit of classical approach and obviously learned naturally played bebop playing every night with the bop leaders, so after maybe 2 years he got it. I´ll never say else, that the Al Haig of 1948/49 was fully developed. I have not heard much Haig after that. I regret he never came to Austria during his lifetime, I have heard that he had played in Hamburg, and in Londra and at some bop reunions with Diz and on one occasion with Dex in the late 70´s (not the best record, but a wonderful Haig solo on Round Midnight). 
Another piano player who really could play bop very fine was Lou Levy, he was underrated I think. 

P.S.: I love to play the tune "Be Bop". Usually we choose one up tempo number for each set, it may be "Be bop" "Salt Peanuts", "Dizzy Atmosphere" "52nd Street Theme" or a standard tune like "Get Happy" "Cherokee" , that kind of stuff.....

Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Thank you @AllenLowe for sharing this one. If I remember right, this was the first tune, where Don Byas plays the first solo (possibly because Bird was late on the band stand). 

Okay, yeah, I don´t doubt that Al had a brilliant touch and technique, but I like his solos more on the 1948 broadcasts with Bird from the Royal Roost. In those two years he learned more about bebop phrasing, at least that´s my impression. In the earlier examples from Town Hall and Billy Berg´s , he plays fine, but has to many "stops" from one A section to the other or from the second A to the bridge. It´s what you play there, that makes the thing into a natural "flow", like Bird always did, like Diz and Fats did and Bud Powell did. I just try to say that it is fascinating to hear how Haig at the beginning still had a bit of classical approach and obviously learned naturally played bebop playing every night with the bop leaders, so after maybe 2 years he got it. I´ll never say else, that the Al Haig of 1948/49 was fully developed. I have not heard much Haig after that. I regret he never came to Austria during his lifetime, I have heard that he had played in Hamburg, and in Londra and at some bop reunions with Diz and on one occasion with Dex in the late 70´s (not the best record, but a wonderful Haig solo on Round Midnight). 
Another piano player who really could play bop very fine was Lou Levy, he was underrated I think. 

P.S.: I love to play the tune "Be Bop". Usually we choose one up tempo number for each set, it may be "Be bop" "Salt Peanuts", "Dizzy Atmosphere" "52nd Street Theme" or a standard tune like "Get Happy" "Cherokee" , that kind of stuff.....

I understand. I guess we have to realize that Haig was about 23 years old (born in 1922; apparently he changed the date later on) and this music was such a racial kind of reorganization. He told me that Dizzy showed him how to voice chords for the new music.

it won't let me correct the above, "racial" should have been "radical" - spellcheck crap, sorry. Anyone else here find themselves unable to edit text?

Edited by AllenLowe
spelling

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