Clifford Jordan - Drink Plenty Water (unissued 1974 Strata East session)

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Rooster_Ties said:

 

This double-cd is definitely legit, and has both Jordan sessions complete.

https://www.discogs.com/release/5725923-Joe-Henderson-Carmell-Jones-Clifford-Jordan-The-Erich-Kleinschuster-Sextet-Volume-1-196869

That came out at the same time as this: https://www.discogs.com/release/5725992-Art-Farmer-Jimmy-Heath-Slide-Hampton-The-Erich-Kleinschuster-Sextet-Volume-2-196871

I ended up getting both from a very nice German shop. In spite of limited English/German skills on both our parts and no way to pay except sending a CC# ,by email, the deal got done, and flawlessly at that.

When good faith is rewarded, it's a wonderful thing!

[jlhoots]

I got those too. Don't remember where. Maybe Dusty Groove.

[Eric]

6 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

It isn’t clear those LP’s are legit, and they’re definitely not complete.

This double-cd is definitely legit, and has both Jordan sessions complete.

https://www.discogs.com/release/5725923-Joe-Henderson-Carmell-Jones-Clifford-Jordan-The-Erich-Kleinschuster-Sextet-Volume-1-196869

What causes you concern about their legitimacy?  They did a beautiful version of I Don’t Care Who Knows It by Duke Pearson and were all set to reissue Passing Ships on vinyl until Blue Note decided to make it a Tone Poet.  Wallen Bink even had three separate jackets produced for the cover art, which were quite cool.  They have also released various MPS cuts as cool singles.  I own several of these, the Duke Pearson and the three lps referred to above.  They all strike me as real labor of love products.

All the details on the Pearson issue:

https://www.discogs.com/release/12924662-Duke-Pearson-I-Dont-Care-Who-Knows-It

Go to their Facebook page to see the alternative covers for the Hill record.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Eric

[Rooster_Ties]

14 minutes ago, Eric said:

What causes you concern about their legitimacy?  They did a beautiful version of I Don’t Care Who Knows It by Duke Pearson and were all set to reissue Passing Ships on vinyl until Blue Note decided to make it a Tone Poet.  Wallen Bink even had three separate jackets produced for the cover art, which were quite cool.  They have also released various MPS cuts as cool singles.  I own several of these, the Duke Pearson and the three lps referred to above.  They all strike me as real labor of love products.

All the details on the Pearson issue:

https://www.discogs.com/release/12924662-Duke-Pearson-I-Dont-Care-Who-Knows-It

Go to their Facebook page to see the alternative covers for the Hill record.

I’d heard enough conjecture that they weren’t, that I too wondered.  Plus, the fact that none of the sessions were complete kinda wrangled me (as is the fact they were vinyl-only, although if they’re not compete, that really doesn’t matter much in the long run).

The Tolliver and Duško especially — both of which I’ve heard in full — both absolutely deserve a full release (since none of that material had been issued before).

[Eric]

Just now, Rooster_Ties said:

I’d heard enough conjecture that they weren’t, that I too wondered.  Plus, the fact that none of the sessions were complete kinda wrangled me (as is the fact they were vinyl-only, although if they’re not compete, that really doesn’t matter much in the long run).

The Tolliver and Duško especially — both of which I’ve heard in full — both absolutely deserve a full release (since none of that material had been issued before).

You want to share this info with whoever  steered you wrong.  And look at the Facebook page.  They have pictures of the Passing Ships tape boxes.

https://www.discogs.com/release/23315750-Erich-Kleinschuster-6tet-Clifford-Jordan-Charles-Tolliver-ORF-1968-69

[Rooster_Ties]

9 minutes ago, Eric said:

You want to share this info with whoever  steered you wrong.  And look at the Facebook page.  They have pictures of the Passing Ships tape boxes.

https://www.discogs.com/release/23315750-Erich-Kleinschuster-6tet-Clifford-Jordan-Charles-Tolliver-ORF-1968-69

They could definitely be legit, and yes, I really don’t know.

A trusted source I know voiced some concerns about them being legit, and I’d read the same (idle?) speculation somewhere else (I thought around these parts, actually, but I really don’t remember where).

[felser]

58 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I’d heard enough conjecture that they weren’t, that I too wondered.  Plus, the fact that none of the sessions were complete kinda wrangled me (as is the fact they were vinyl-only, although if they’re not compete, that really doesn’t matter much in the long run).

The Tolliver and Duško especially — both of which I’ve heard in full — both absolutely deserve a full release (since none of that material had been issued before).

Would LOVE to get that Tolliver material on CD.

[sidewinder]

6 hours ago, Eric said:

What causes you concern about their legitimacy?  They did a beautiful version of I Don’t Care Who Knows It by Duke Pearson and were all set to reissue Passing Ships on vinyl until Blue Note decided to make it a Tone Poet.  Wallen Bink even had three separate jackets produced for the cover art, which were quite cool.  They have also released various MPS cuts as cool singles.  I own several of these, the Duke Pearson and the three lps referred to above.  They all strike me as real labor of love products.

All the details on the Pearson issue:

https://www.discogs.com/release/12924662-Duke-Pearson-I-Dont-Care-Who-Knows-It

Go to their Facebook page to see the alternative covers for the Hill record.

Spot on. These are beautifully produced reissues which used master tape supplied directly from the original broadcaster, ORF and are credited as such on the sleeves. Speculation that they are bootlegs is BS and these are as legit as earlier issued CDs from other sources.

They did indeed also do initial work on the ‘Passing Ships’ 2LP, working with Malcolm Addey, which eventually became the 3 sided 2LP. Their concept would have been to fill all four sides. The Duke Pearson 2LP set is also exemplary.

Edited June 4, 2023 by sidewinder

[Eric]

6 hours ago, Eric said:

You want to share this info with whoever  steered you wrong.  And look at the Facebook page.  They have pictures of the Passing Ships tape boxes.

https://www.discogs.com/release/23315750-Erich-Kleinschuster-6tet-Clifford-Jordan-Charles-Tolliver-ORF-1968-69

Edit: Typo on my part, meant to say you “may” want to.

I encourage you to read his Facebook page.  Leave it at that.

[clifford_thornton]

On 6/1/2023 at 8:19 PM, JSngry said:

Weren't The Dolphy Series records done for a specific label (Futura, or something like that)?

Maybe this new record was not done for that label and therefore would have had a different business provenance or whatever you would call it? 

Frontier was Jordan's scuttled label (where all the Dolphy Series LPs were originally destined to go), and that is possibly the case, yes.

[JSngry]

Frontier, yes. Knew it started with F.

That this was done for Strata-East... my understanding is that the artists paid production costs, then took the projects to the label for pressing, packaging, distribution etc. So this was likely that.

Why it was not released 50 years ago is anybody's guess except for the people who decided to release it now. 

[JSngry]

Fwiw, the Mapleshade 30% off 3 or more CDs is legit. The site didn't automatically give it, but an email inquiry was promptly addressed and the adjustment made.

Also, I ordered on a weekend (Saturday) and the order got here yesterday (Wednesday). Considering that P&H is built into the item price pre-discount. I'd say that's pretty much one helluva good deal. 

[bertrand]

On 6/4/2023 at 4:59 AM, sidewinder said:

Spot on. These are beautifully produced reissues which used master tape supplied directly from the original broadcaster, ORF and are credited as such on the sleeves. Speculation that they are bootlegs is BS and these are as legit as earlier issued CDs from other sources.

They did indeed also do initial work on the ‘Passing Ships’ 2LP, working with Malcolm Addey, which eventually became the 3 sided 2LP. Their concept would have been to fill all four sides. The Duke Pearson 2LP set is also exemplary.

What is the Duke Pearson?

[sidewinder]

1 hour ago, bertrand said:

What is the Duke Pearson?

This one -

[JSngry]

This is ©2022 Harvest Song Records, with a catalog #2022-1, which old folks will recognize as the Strata-East numbering system. 

The only other HS release +at least in Discogs) is 2006-1:

So I'm thinking that this is  a Sandy Jordan label, and that she is partnering in some fashion with Mapleshade?

So .. what about In The World... possible? 

[felser]

51 minutes ago, JSngry said:

This is ©2022 Harvest Song Records, with a catalog #2022-1, which old folks will recognize as the Strata-East numbering system. 

The only other HS release +at least in Discogs) is 2006-1:

So I'm thinking that this is  a Sandy Jordan label, and that she is partnering in some fashion with Mapleshade?

So .. what about In The World... possible? 

I'm all in favor of more Strata-East music being reissued for sure, but not following the numbering - I show Glass Bead Games as SES 19737/8, and see the SES 19xxx as the usual Strata East numbering. 

[JSngry]

Sorry, I meant that Harvest Song is using the SE "system", not the actual catalog #s.

They would have reissued GBG in 2006, and released this new one in 2022.

Which leads to the question... where had they been releasing it prior to partnering with Mapleshade? Via newsletter or something? Anywhere? Maybe they had everything except distribution in 2022?

And what about In the World? Do tapes for that one still exist? Is the P-Vine CD of that a needle-drop? 

[felser]

12 hours ago, JSngry said:

Sorry, I meant that Harvest Song is using the SE "system", not the actual catalog #s.

They would have reissued GBG in 2006, and released this new one in 2022.

Which leads to the question... where had they been releasing it prior to partnering with Mapleshade? Via newsletter or something? Anywhere? Maybe they had everything except distribution in 2022?

And what about In the World? Do tapes for that one still exist? Is the P-Vine CD of that a needle-drop? 

I know that at least some of the P-Vine Strata-East's I have are needle drops, and not good ones at that (Descendants of Mike and Phoebe, Billy Parker), but In The World sounds to my old ears like it is from a strong tape source, though nothing in that Dolphy Series was ever a sonic marvel.

[JSngry]

Here's hoping for a reissue of that one from Harvest Song via Mapleshade!

Also...listed in the roster of singers on this new one is Muriel Winston, referred to as a professional singer. I have her Strata-East record (no great, but interesting songs at least). So what is HER story,? 

[T.D.]

13 hours ago, JSngry said:

Sorry, I meant that Harvest Song is using the SE "system", not the actual catalog #s.

They would have reissued GBG in 2006, and released this new one in 2022.

Which leads to the question... where had they been releasing it prior to partnering with Mapleshade? Via newsletter or something? Anywhere? Maybe they had everything except distribution in 2022?

And what about In the World? Do tapes for that one still exist? Is the P-Vine CD of that a needle-drop? 

In the World was included in the Mosaic Strata-East box. I'll see what the booklet says.

 

[Added] That Mosaic booklet does not speak (either yes or no) to the issue of needle drops. Nor does the website, https://www.mosaicrecords.com/clifford-jordan-strata-east-albums/ . But I always had the impression Mosaic generally doesn't do needle drops apart from old 78 reissues.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by T.D.

[clifford_thornton]

On 6/4/2023 at 5:17 PM, JSngry said:

Frontier, yes. Knew it started with F.

That this was done for Strata-East... my understanding is that the artists paid production costs, then took the projects to the label for pressing, packaging, distribution etc. So this was likely that.

Why it was not released 50 years ago is anybody's guess except for the people who decided to release it now. 

Yeah, that's what Mtume told me too regarding how the S/E business model worked.

[felser]

23 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Yeah, that's what Mtume told me too regarding how the S/E business model worked.

Which is, I believe, why we've never seen CD reissues of the Mtume and some other key titles from the catalog (#1 on my wish list is 'Reasons in Tonality' by the Jazz Contemporaries, with the Mtume, the Harold Vick, and the Cosmic Twins also high on my list)