Miles Davis Live at the Plugged Nickel

[Stompin at the Savoy]

23 minutes ago, JSngry said:

You're giving them waaaay too much credit.

Haha.  Well, I can see that the word 'noodling' presses a button for you.  I get what you mean but this isn't really the issue here.  My friend listened and heard something to him very abstract and hard to get into for him at that point in time.  How he described his difficulty and how people who don't listen to jazz interpret what they hear is perhaps a subject for another day and  tangential to the argument that this music may not have been reissued for 30 years because it is difficult for the average person to connect to. And I would contend that it is demanding listening even for somebody in awe of it; it is not background music.

[JSngry]

He "heard" and "listened".

What he meant was "this music is incomprehensible to me and that's their fault, not mine".

It's always somebody else's fault. Nobody ever says " I don't like this because don't yet, maybe will never, understand it".

You find a person who is that reality-based, you have maybe found a friend!

Oh yeah, "demanding music" is more often than not a fun listen for me. And I know I'm not alone in that (and it's not just musicians).

But a simple "I don't get" is adequate and honest. This "noodling" thing just bullshit. Period.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

30 minutes ago, JSngry said:

He "heard" and "listened".

What he meant was "this music is incomprehensible to me and that's their fault, not mine".

It's always somebody else's fault. Nobody ever says " I don't like this because don't yet, maybe will never, understand it".

You find a person who is that reality-based, you have maybe found a friend!

Oh yeah, "demanding music" is more often than not a fun listen for me. And I know I'm not alone in that (and it's not just musicians).

But a simple "I don't get" is adequate and honest. This "noodling" thing just bullshit. Period.

OK I get it, you are just gonna keep flogging that horse because this is a pet peeve and hobby-horse for you.  I don't like it because it condemns people for ignorance, which is curable, and it divides people into your categories of reality-based vs bullshit people.  This is a defensive, blame-dealing approach which is almost always doomed to failure because people like being condemned even less than being educated.

[JSngry]

30 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

OK I get it, you are just gonna keep flogging that horse because this is a pet peeve and hobby-horse for you.  I don't like it because it condemns people for ignorance, which is curable, and it divides people into your categories of reality-based vs bullshit people.  This is a defensive, blame-dealing approach which is almost always doomed to failure because people like being condemned even less than being educated.

 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

He "heard" and "listened".

What he meant was "this music is incomprehensible to me and that's their fault, not mine".

It's always somebody else's fault. Nobody ever says " I don't like this because don't yet, maybe will never, understand it".

You find a person who is that reality-based, you have maybe found a friend!

Oh yeah, "demanding music" is more often than not a fun listen for me. And I know I'm not alone in that (and it's not just musicians).

But a simple "I don't get" is adequate and honest. This "noodling" thing just bullshit. Period.

"demanding music"? You mean like avant garde stuff? I consider myself a pretty good listener and I don't like most of it. Fun? No way. I'd much rather listen to music that gets me to tap my feet rather than grind my teeth. If a soloist is just screeching at full volumes a la Brotzmann, I do not like it. Noodling? Maybe?

We're picking nits and choosing to stand our ground over the definition of noodling? Really? We already lost one regular visitor (Bertrand) over this thread. Are we shooting for more?

[JSngry]

Most "avant-garde" music is predictable to one degree or another. That's not at all demanding, it's quite the opposite!

[mjazzg]

11 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

"demanding music"? You mean like avant garde stuff? I consider myself a pretty good listener and I don't like most of it. Fun? No way. I'd much rather listen to music that gets me to tap my feet rather than grind my teeth. If a soloist is just screeching at full volumes a la Brotzmann, I do not like it. Noodling? Maybe?

We're picking nits and choosing to stand our ground over the definition of noodling? Really? We already lost one regular visitor (Bertrand) over this thread. Are we shooting for more?

I tapped my foot every time I saw Brötzmann play. Just saying, doesn't add anything to the "debate" I admit, beyond the old trope of letting each person enjoy the music they enjoy in the way they do and avoid generalisations.

[JSngry]

A long while back, I make a rule not to discuss music with anybody unless I know that they know what they're getting into. And that's most people.

We can talk about other stuff and we can still be friends.

[mikeweil]

56 minutes ago, JSngry said:

We can talk about other stuff and we can still be friends.

Well, yes, but - isn't this a jazz forum, and isn't jazz some kind of music? 😎

[JSngry]

I'm talking about in real life