Muse Masters - reissue series

[cliffpeterson]

I am with Kevin-I like most of the stuff that Zev has been involved with. But, thinking of Blakey's "Just Coolin" date, how can you call him a "Detective" when the session is listed on discographies?

[Dan Gould]

16 minutes ago, cliffpeterson said:

I am with Kevin-I like most of the stuff that Zev has been involved with. But, thinking of Blakey's "Just Coolin" date, how can you call him a "Detective" when the session is listed on discographies?

Because he "detected" that there was a market for it even if the decision to shelve it originally (and not release it during the heyday of reissue programs) was more than a defensible one.

[clifford_thornton]

20 minutes ago, cliffpeterson said:

I am with Kevin-I like most of the stuff that Zev has been involved with. But, thinking of Blakey's "Just Coolin" date, how can you call him a "Detective" when the session is listed on discographies?

The Huss Charles issue definitely made him out to be not much of a detective! 🙄

[JSngry]

+ an uncredited (or even noticed!) Mickey Fields on the Sonny Stitt record

+ the whole Palo Alto fiasco

+ the liner notes booklets  too often being full of fluff and low on substance

+ the ongoing overkill of self-serving hype in the press releases

All told, I'd be happy if he focused on getting the work done correctly first.

[clifford_thornton]

3 minutes ago, JSngry said:

 

All told, I'd be happy if he focused on getting the work done correctly first.

This.

[felser]

56 minutes ago, JSngry said:

the whole Palo Alto fiasco.

 

What was this?

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

Because he "detected" that there was a market for it even if the decision to shelve it originally (and not release it during the heyday of reissue programs) was more than a defensible one.

Doesn't take keen deductive skills to realize that there's a market for an unissued session from the heydey of BN.  And I agree, it's not an album that adds much of anything other than bulk.  Much less heralded but much more rewarding is the Donald Byrd 1970's Montreux historical issue, which tells a whole musical story we did not really know (Nathan Davis, Henry Franklin and the Mizell Brothers all on the same recording).

[JSngry]

37 minutes ago, felser said:

What was this?

The Monk Palo Alto record on impulse! that almost got cancelled because Zevvers didn't secure all the necessary rights before bloviating about his major new find.

That was very careless and almost torpedoed what did indeed torn out to be a major release. Some of the best, maybe the best, later Monk on record.

It was just a few years ago, surely you remember? It was getting hot up in here for a minute!

The guy is aggressively positioning himself as the new king of reissues, presumably in the wake of Michael Cuscuna, but Cuscuna (who would occasionally screw up, sure) was publicly humble about his work and his importance and seldom made the type of basic fuckups that this Feldman guy has made.

I mean, how do you NOT HEAR a tenor player who obviously NOT Sonny Stitt on a Sonny Stitt record? You have to either be deaf or just not give a damn.

[Dub Modal]

2 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Because he "detected" that there was a market for it even if the decision to shelve it originally (and not release it during the heyday of reissue programs) was more than a defensible one.

Lol. Funny bc it's true. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

Well, he produces reissues and recent 'discoveries' so I am willing to cut him quite a bit of slack.  Yes he does toot his own horn too much and yes I hate the idea of expensive, luxury vinyl in limited editions that I will never buy.  That said I assume he is doing this as a career, has to make money at it somehow, and pricey vinyl is a thing right now, incomprehensible as it may seem to me...

[JSngry]

You know who I'm willing to cut quite a bit of slack? Those who bring a quality product at whatever is a fair price - without all the bullshit and blatant, oblivious fuckups.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

22 minutes ago, JSngry said:

You know who I'm willing to cut quite a bit of slack? Those who bring a quality product at whatever is a fair price - without all the bullshit and blatant, oblivious fuckups.

"All the bullshit" I assume means self promotion.  He's in a business where promotion is part of the game.  His advertising doesn't really harm the product and basically I don't care about it.

Presumably by "blatant, oblivious fuckups" you are referring to the fact that he didn't notice the presence of a player on one disk and he endangered another release by shooting his mouth off.   These are sins I find forgivable and I am willing to give Zev the benefit of the doubt.  Why?  Because I have made mistakes of a similar sort in other circs.  I have some releases he produced that were good quality and reasonable price.  All My Yesterdays by Thad Jones and Mel Lewis comes to mind. Excellent release, IMO.  He could use some constructive criticism on the overdone packaging and liner notes which are long but don't really illuminate...

Edited 20 hours ago by Stompin at the Savoy

[JSngry]

Giving the benefit of the doubt too often is just saying, hey, that's ok, it's not important.

Well, it is important.

And ok - how DO you not notice a totally different tenor player. An obvious difference in sound and tone. How do you get a drummer totally wrong when the source tape clearly gives the correct name. How do you not go forward with a major project without making sure that all the rights have been properly assigned/granted?

These are not minor mistakes. A first-rate producer notices these things, researches them, and gets it right before taking the product to market.

And I'm not somebody squawking from the bleachers. I'm a paying customer. I've got a right to bitch about stuff like this, if only because not once has this been a mea culpa issued. Not once.

I believe the word that fits this guy is hubris?

[Stompin at the Savoy]

8 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Giving the benefit of the doubt too often is just saying, hey, that's ok, it's not important.

Well, it is important.

And ok - how DO you not notice a totally different tenor player. An obvious difference in sound and tone. How do you get a drummer totally wrong when the source tape clearly gives the correct name. How do you not go forward with a major project without making sure that all the rights have been properly assigned/granted?

These are not minor mistakes. A first-rate producer notices these things, researches them, and gets it right before taking the product to market.

And I'm not somebody squawking from the bleachers. I'm a paying customer. I've got a right to bitch about stuff like this, if only because not once has this been a mea culpa issued. Not once.

I believe the word that fits this guy is hubris?

Your attitude has hardened.  You view the errors as signs of irremediable character traits in the producer and have written him off.  I agree with you that there have been some significant issues.  Zev is not a good writer and has, in my view, kind of bad taste.  He is attracted to glitzy, glossy sort of stuff.  All that means is he should delegate and let others design the covers, booklets and advertising and write the copy while he handles the bigger picture with more care.  Those are my constructive suggestions but the truth is I don't care much about Zev - I care about the music and focus on the product coming out of my speakers: is there benefit to music lovers such as myself in these releases?   

[JSngry]

The bar is being lowered, meaning reduced benefit.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

22 hours ago, cliffpeterson said:

I am with Kevin-I like most of the stuff that Zev has been involved with. But, thinking of Blakey's "Just Coolin" date, how can you call him a "Detective" when the session is listed on discographies?

The "Just Coolin'" release is the one that really bugs me too. This session was widely distributed through back channels for years & years... decades even. I don't think I knew of any Blakey fan who didn't have it. I even had someone send Michael Cuscuna his "mastering" take on an CD sequence but Michael wouldn't budge that it was not worthy of being released.

Michael often talked to the artists about sessions like this and for all we know, Blakey himself might not have wanted that session released. I know that Donald Byrd specifically did not want those Montreux recordings released, but we see what artists' desires mean to today's Blue Note reissue team.

[felser]

53 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

The "Just Coolin'" release is the one that really bugs me too. This session was widely distributed through back channels for years & years... decades even. I don't think I knew of any Blakey fan who didn't have it. I even had someone send Michael Cuscuna his "mastering" take on an CD sequence but Michael wouldn't budge that it was not worthy of being released.

Michael often talked to the artists about sessions like this and for all we know, Blakey himself might not have wanted that session released. I know that Donald Byrd specifically did not want those Montreux recordings released, but we see what artists' desires mean to today's Blue Note reissue team.

The Blakey and the Byrd were not released during their lifetimes.   I am a huge Blakey fan, but have never had access to any back channels, so never heard it before the BN reissue.   That being said, the Blakey was pretty underwhelming based on what was already out there in the marketplace.  To me, the Byrd is amazingly/surprisingly good and unique, and I'm very glad it was finally released.  I have mixed feelings about "the artist's wishes" on that stuff.  BN took on the effort and expense to record that concert, and it was quite worthwhile, why should they have to just eat the costs if it is worthy of release?   To me, that concert puts Byrd's contemporaneous studio output to shame, is way above anything he recorded from 'Black Byrd' on, including the commercial BN's, Elektra stuff and the "comeback" albums on Landmark.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

2 hours ago, felser said:

The Blakey and the Byrd were not released during their lifetimes.   I am a huge Blakey fan, but have never had access to any back channels, so never heard it before the BN reissue.   That being said, the Blakey was pretty underwhelming based on what was already out there in the marketplace.  To me, the Byrd is amazingly/surprisingly good and unique, and I'm very glad it was finally released.  I have mixed feelings about "the artist's wishes" on that stuff.  BN took on the effort and expense to record that concert, and it was quite worthwhile, why should they have to just eat the costs if it is worthy of release?   To me, that concert puts Byrd's contemporaneous studio output to shame, is way above anything he recorded from 'Black Byrd' on, including the commercial BN's, Elektra stuff and the "comeback" albums on Landmark.

Blue Note released several LPs from that concert (Bobby Hutcherson, Bobbi Humphrey, Marlena Shaw & Ronnie Foster), so they more than made up for any recording costs. The fact that Byrd's performance was the only one not released at the time speaks to the label listening to the artists even back then. It's not like them keeping it in the can was good for Byrd's wallet.

Here's what Michael Cuscuna said to me about this when someone on the Steve Hoffman forums questioned why he didn't release it himself:

MC:

Reality check: This was the only Montreux performance from that Blue Note night on July 5, 1973 to remain unissued in all territories. I asked Donald why and he said that like other live recordings he tried in the States, the results never reached the level of production and perfection that the original studio tracks did. He said it wasn’t successful and did not want it out. In those days, getting studio time to mix down multi track tapes – especially on speculation – was rarely approved.

Fast forward to Don Was’s era as Blue Note president. From his vantage point, there isn’t much unreleased, but he liked to find whatever he can. The Byrd Montreux tape was a revelation – not as slick or perfect as a Mizell Bros. production, but cookin’ in a great groove nonetheless. So Don released it and we’re all happy about that. Why this is some indictment of me and the assumption is that this album would have sold hundreds of thousands more copies than anything else at that time are fictions that I can’t grasp.