The art of collecting vinyl: please just let us do

[Pim]

So many threads ultimately end up bashing vinyl and vinyl enthusiasts. Perhaps it would be helpful to have a separate thread for this, where everyone can vent their deepest frustrations about buying vinyl?
 

Let me start by trying to explain why I personally enjoy collecting it. Let me make this clear: there are hardly any rational reasons to buy vinyl, except perhaps the fact that you can resell it later for more money. Vinyl is expensive, easily damaged, and takes up a huge amount of space. These are precisely the arguments you're bombarded with as a vinyl enthusiast.
 

But... buying vinyl has nothing to do with rational thinking. It's more about feeling and emotion. And that's where it has so much more value for me compared to streaming and even CDs (although I definitely prefer buying those to streaming). I love browsing through my collection, putting on a record, sitting down in front of it, and reading the back cover. The whole moment has value in itself. After some investment, I also have, in my opinion, beautiful sound. The covers: for me, they're often a piece of art! A beautiful gadget. Then there's the hunt for records: I love rummaging through the bins, sometimes finding nothing, but other times finding exactly that rare record you were looking for. Or suddenly seeing that hard-to-find record pop up on Discogs! The whole hunt is part of the hobby. Then a quick clean, a new cover, and some serious spinning.

As with all forms of collecting, it's a matter of feeling. Streaming doesn't do any of that for me: it symbolizes our modern, rational, hyper-efficient, and hurried society. CDs already have much more emotional value for me. Besides, I always want to own my music.

Other than increasing value, there are no rational arguments for collecting coins, stamps, pins, Disney characters, or model cars. But why should I judge them the way people often do here about vinyl collecting? Do I rationally understand why someone pays 100 euros for a stamp? No, of course not, but when I see how much enjoyment they get from it, I suddenly understand.

There are a few side effects of the vinyl hype that I do understand can be annoying:

1. It's a hype. I don't like hypes either: they produce hipsters in lumberjack shirts who buy vinyl for five years and then ruin it on a trendy record player in a 50-euro suitcase. They mainly drive up prices, and in five years they move on to another hype.

2. There's no CD version: no problem for me, but if CD is your format, I certainly understand the irritation!

3. Sometimes they reissue an album and only release a heavily overpriced version.

All understandable annoyances, but no reason to constantly express in so many words how stupid vinyl lovers are. If a FLAC file or a Spotify playlist makes you incredibly happy: go for it! But let me enjoy my hobby.

I strongly suggest all vinyl hate comments could be placed here from now on so we could leave them out of the threads on highly enjoyable new vinyl reissue programs. 

[jlhoots]

I don't have a turntable anymore, so vinyl is not an option for me. You are certainly welcome to collect whatever you want.

FWIW, I had a vinyl collection of over 20.000 LPs. Sold it all 25 years ago. The movers destroyed my Bang & Olufsen turntable. That was it for me.

[Pim]

1 minute ago, jlhoots said:

I don't have a turntable anymore, so vinyl is not an option for me. You are certainly welcome to collect whatever you want.

FWIW, I had a vinyl collection of over 20.000 LPs. Sold it all 25 years ago. The movers destroyed my Bang & Olufsen turntable. That was it for me.

Over 20.000? That is one huge collection! You could have been a millionaire selling it now 😜

[jlhoots]

29 minutes ago, Pim said:

Over 20.000? That is one huge collection! You could have been a millionaire selling it now 😜

I did O.K. 😎 It's a long story.

Edited Saturday at 05:12 PM by jlhoots

[paulfromcamden]

@Pim that's pretty much how I feel about records too. My idea of a perfect afternoon is a hour rummaging in a good secondhand record shop, getting the records home, cleaning them, them settling down with a cup of tea and discovering what they sound like. I just love it.

Maybe the sensible thing to do would be to stream most of it, save a pile of money and get a lot of space back. But I don't find scrolling down a screen as satisfying as flicking through a stack of records. Records are just nice objects. I've been buying them for forty years and expect to carry on.

Not rational but I don't think appreciation of art should always be entirely based on reason.

[gvopedz]

I also do not have a turntable anymore, but I still keep the first vinyl i ever bought (at age 11), and I keep it for no reason.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I've been collecting Mosaic sets for decades.  I also own more books than anyone I know.  I have other good-sized collections of physical objects, like guitars, board games, cookware, etc.  So I think I get the idea of collecting physical objects.  

78s, 45s, LPs, CDs, SACDs, laser disks etc are all physical methods of music distribution. Streaming and downloads are also methods of music distribution but do not rely upon a single physical object like a CD or LP but can instead be kept on various types of devices, copied, moved from device to device and so forth. These are still a conveyance for music, just more fluid about where the actual music data resides.

Some people collect music as physical artifacts: LPs, CDs etc.  The physical thing is part and parcel of what they are collecting. Their experience of owning music is one to one with owning physical objects. I have no quarrel with this and do it to some extent myself.  Others, myself included, are in recent years mainly collecting "music", not the artifact containing the music. Similarly, I still enjoy album art and accompanying booklets but mostly view them via photographs. Which distribution format the music came in is less significant to me now than owning the music itself, which is to say: being able to access the music (and discography) whenever I want to listen.  I'm still collecting but not any one format or delivery mechanism. I do not claim that my collection of "music, regardless of the delivery format" is superior to anyone else's style of music collection.  I can certainly appreciate and even envy a fine collection of vinyl even though I don't have one.

[JSngry]

 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I try to read most posts here on the forums but I have to confess - I missed these "hate vinyl" posts. Where are these posts being made? I can't imagine why anyone would hate a format that's been around forever. I prefer CDs but I own and play LPs as well. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I don't think anyone really hates vinyl; they dislike the high prices and profiteering of new vinyl and the vinyl resurgence.

[clifford_thornton]

41 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I don't think anyone really hates vinyl; they dislike the high prices and profiteering of new vinyl and the vinyl resurgence.

yeah, would that those attempting to circumvent the affordability crisis also look at making both new and used jazz vinyl cheaper!

[ejp626]

1 hour ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I don't think anyone really hates vinyl; they dislike the high prices and profiteering of new vinyl and the vinyl resurgence.

I actually do not like vinyl, though I do own some LPs out of necessity.  Aside from the high prices and the ridiculous hype around it during its latest resurgence, I do bitterly resent the fact that some current releases are now vinyl-only (and in a handful of cases there isn't even a download option), and I also resent the fact that some of these vinyl-led reissues drop bonus tracks that came out during the CD era.  

Edited Sunday at 05:16 AM by ejp626

[Kevin Bresnahan]

7 hours ago, ejp626 said:

I actually do not like vinyl, though I do own some LPs out of necessity.  Aside from the high prices and the ridiculous hype around it during its latest resurgence, I do bitterly resent the fact that some current releases are now vinyl-only (and in a handful of cases there isn't even a download option), and I also resent the fact that some of these vinyl-led reissues drop bonus tracks that came out during the CD era.  

I agree with many of your points but I still don't think that equates to dismissing vinyl buyers as Pim seems to be saying here.

I often post in digital versus analog discussions and I will come across as pro-digital because, as an electrical engineer, I have studied the subject and firmly believe in the science. This stance is not to show any sort of hate towards vinyl.

Pim - if anyone posts something that upsets you and you think is inappropriate or offensive, please report the post and the moderating team can look into it. Hopefully, we can help you with this, especially if it's simply a misunderstanding.

[paulfromcamden]

8 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

yeah, would that those attempting to circumvent the affordability crisis also look at making both new and used jazz vinyl cheaper!

Feel sorry for us Europeans paying 25% more for Blue Note Tone Poet reissues!

Funnily enough over here a lot of used jazz vinyl seems to be dropping in price if anything. I think the market has shifted heavily towards original pressings and 'audiophile' reissues. Lots of regular 1980s (non Blue Note) reissues of common titles can be found cheaply. This was confirmed to me by a dealer I spoke to last year who is struggling to shift this stuff even at beer money prices.

And still people are buying expensive reissues of Pablo records when the originals can be had for a few quid. Seems nuts to me.

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks, Pim, for starting this topic!  You more or less sum up my feelings about buying and collecting vinyl. 

Now ... in random order about some points made by others and you here:

"Vinyl hating "posts: To those doubting Thomases - they have been made here in varous contexts. Maybe sometimes better refered to as "vinyl dismissing" posts ... As I remember them, the bottom line often was: "You are not in the swing of things anymore if you still stick to vinyl - they only have drawbacks and are outmoded", etc. (Something that came up again when CD buyers got blasted in turn for not having made the transition to downloading and streaming.
"Vinyl hype" geeks of course are a different story. I remember cases like these too, like one that the owner of a local record store told me some 20 years ago when I paid for a Blue Note Japan reissue at the counter: "The other day a guy who had had the finishing touches put to the renovation of his designer-furnished apartment dropped in to ask me to compile him a set of Blue Note vinyls for his living room and audio equipment."  Certainly not one of the (bearded) lumberjack shirt hipsters (I know that sort of characters too - they also infest other subculture and niche collecting scenes) but rather one of the black turtleneck sweater-wearing art-as-lifestyle geeks, but still ... 
But certainly - and that's the point here - hardly anyone professing to his love for vinyl here on this forum can be accused to be of the hipster or hype follower types, but rather just someone who has stuck to the medium he has come up with. 

Like I for example have ... although I have come to appreciate CDs over time too and have bought lots of them (though my vinyl to CD ratio in my collection still is about 4.5 to 1 ). Sometimes for convenience, often because the music I at long least wanted to obtain in tangible form and that had been unavailable or too pricey on originals was only ever reissued in an accessible form on CD. 

And there is indeed the matter of feeling and of vinyl as an object designed as an entity, at least as it was at the time of its original release  and as it has become accessible again through FACSIMILE reissues (and no, the Japanese "mini-LP" CD reissue miniatures just are not the real thing - not by a long shot!). But - as with you - hunting for vinyls (in shops and elsewhere) still is different from rummaging through the CD racks in the record shops. CDs are for practicality, LPs are often a matter of "ha, this is the one that I had been unable to afford when it was first reissued or had missed out on at this or that occasion before". It is a surreal feeling when you locally (!) come across a secondhand copy of a rare reissue by an extreme niche artist in your musical field of interest that you remember having missed out on (for lack of funds) way back in 1978 or so at a local record shop. There cannot have been many copies sold back then in our town or local punters crazy or savvy enough to have bought them, so this may well have been the exact copy you had hesitated about too long back then ...
This is only ONE of many, many unreasonable motivations of collecting vinyl (and certainly not the major one, but moments like this stick in your mind). Yet these and other collecting aspects and collector's traits just do not (and do not have to) conform to any rational criteria (as you rightly say). As with any other collecting hobby. 

The examples or other areas of collecting you name for comparison are just some of the "classic" ones and far from the oddest ones. Compared to what certain others collect the vinyl nerds look comparatively sane anyway, don't they?  Actually only yesterday I had a talk with a lady (who had a stall at a vintage fleamarket I also attended ) who mentioned to me that she has 800 pairs of (mostly) vintage shoes at home. Now who's crazier within the collecting fraternity (sorority too ) - those who hang on to vinyl or those who amass such amounts of footwear? 

Sometimes I have a hunch that some of those who dismiss buying and collecting vinyl are of the "sour grapes" faction because they realize they'd have to put their vinyl in storage (and pay for it each month ) and somehow envy those who do have the shelf space to display and enjoy their collection at home.
Sometimes you have to make an effort indeed ... I've spent the past 2-3 months clearing out stuff at home myself to free shelf space for my new acquisitions of vinyls (and CDs too) as well as jazz books following larger hauls from an estate sale and from a clearance sale at a local record shop (where for some unfathomable reason a considerable part of a highly interesting collection - interesting at least to my tastes - they had recently gotten in ended straight in the "1 EUR each" bins). Which meant that many more documents from what used to be my office room in my house had to go to make way for a large part of my collectible car books and mags that had to move downstairs into this office where I am typing this post now - because the space they used to occupy for years in the room next to my music room was now required to house my newly bought vinyls.  (In the course of which some of those car books and mags went into my fleamarket crates, and actually I sold off a few yesterday at a local vintage fleamarket). Luxury problems? Yes -  but isn't this what any "special interest" way of passing your time is all about? 
In short, collectors are a strange breed, and to those who wonder what it's all about with collecting vinyl - here's something for your looking and reading pleasure (or puzzlement, as the case may be):
https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/160774869X/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=24BJEESUCFBOR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KKG2ekcERAjfh5KPxnb9uIk9aUaENuifo3_1oZPwuW9dpsNgTdUvbht5c6lGQP0SxjX4lAt0yKIzpevPgNpRTW09CvHLjakL2wq_wdA2r9ogSC0Gw7ghOofIJi3cMS9YyiKzykBGb5opB-ZZ8OwzEw._GO_PIVTgukfKF35WENUsaYtGGj7TkMparKZQBhLkuI&dib_tag=se&keywords=Dust+and+Grooves&qid=1767531149&sprefix=dust+and+grooves%2Caps%2C195&sr=8-1&language=en_US

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 01:09 PM by Big Beat Steve

[mjazzg]

I've largely stopped posting here, my loss I know and I'm not asking anyone to care,and the continued sniping at those expressing a passion for the LP format is one of the reasons.

The other day a thread was started with great enthusiasm about two recent LP reissues of important music. Within about two posts that enthusiasm had been dismissed by posts pointing out the lack of extra tracks that had been available on CD.

The thread was about the music but too soon comments, some with vaguely disguised snideness/dismissiveness had derailed what could have been a really interesting thread about the music contained on the release, rather than about the format.

[Big Beat Steve]

@mjazzg:

Understandable, but it would be a pity you'd let yourself be shied away for petty reasons such as these.  So please reconsider. There are many reasons why one can doubt the practices of certain vinyl reissuers but this "bonus track" obsession of some is not really all that reasonable either. Being a competist is all very well but that's a different discussion again - and besides, you completists, how much of what you value about those extra/bonus tracks really is desert island material at all? I've sometimes been guilty myself of keeping a CD just because of the extra track(s), even though I owned the vinyl too. But this would never have been the make-or-break decision for one or the other format. 

24 minutes ago, paulfromcamden said:

Funnily enough over here a lot of used jazz vinyl seems to be dropping in price if anything. I think the market has shifted heavily towards original pressings and 'audiophile' reissues. Lots of regular 1980s (non Blue Note) reissues of common titles can be found cheaply. This was confirmed to me by a dealer I spoke to last year who is struggling to shift this stuff even at beer money prices.

And still people are buying expensive reissues of Pablo records when the originals can be had for a few quid. Seems nuts to me.

To some degree I have had the same experience. Over here pre-Hard Bop jazz vinyls have come down in price as well. I.e. bebop and cool jazz too.
(Which suits me fine and has been part of the reasons why I have had to do the in-house move described in my post above )
Although I have yet to see a major drop in price of 80s Blue Note reissues (and Liberty pressings still are often priced way too high IMO for what they are compared to the earlier pressings - but that's one of the Blue Note peculiarities, I guess). 

Edited Sunday at 01:20 PM by Big Beat Steve

[paulfromcamden]

43 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Although I have yet to see a major drop in price of 80s Blue Note reissues (and Liberty pressings still are often priced way too high IMO for what they are compared to the earlier pressings - but that's one of the Blue Note peculiarities, I guess). 

I regularly see 1980s French Blue Note reissues of common titles priced up at £30-40. In my mind these are still the £10 records they were a decade ago 😂

[Ken Dryden]

There's nothing wrong with collecting vinyl, I still buy out of print LPs, LP sets with tracks not available on the CD editions, new LPs not issued at all on CDs, etc. But for the most part, I prefer CDs, they sound just as good to me, take up less storage space and usually have bonus tracks that the LP versions do not include.

I do find the LP prices for today's releases a bit high for my tastes, especially labels that ask a fortune, only to find out they are reissued on CD by other labels with bonus tracks a few years later.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I think some of the perception of "hating" vinyl could stem from the fact that many of us, myself included, have built up an extensive collection of digital music and it makes these new reissues less important. I have shied away from Blue Note's LP reissue series because 1) I have ALL of the music already (usually with added material) & 2) I have experienced mastering issues on some of them that Blue Note refuses to fix. That is not me dissing vinyl at all. I'm dissing Blue Note.

BTW - these are my reasons for not buying any more of certain titles, not all LP reissues. Heck, I recently bought Eric Alexander's latest release on vinyl, so I'm not opposed to it in general.

[felser]

I would suggest adding "vinyl only" to the title when posting about a new release which is not being made available via CD or download.  That way, those who don't/can't collect vinyl ( many do not have the money/space/lifestyle to enable collecting vinyl) can skip over the posting rather than opening it, reading it, getting enthusiastic, researching it, and finding out that it is only being made available on vinyl.   The type of consideration being requested in this topic works both ways.  An alternative is to just post the posting in the The Vinyl Frontier sub-forum, which those who don't collect vinyl won't even look at.

[Pim]

@Kevin Bresnahan maybe I used too strong words Kevin, sorry for that. I don't experience hate and reaching out to a moderator would be a case of overreacting. It's the disdain that mjazzg mentioned. It's hard too look up all those individual cases trough the search mode (i wouldnt even know where to start) but it has happened often here. Ken Dryden's comment at the Sun Ra reissue thread was the last one that made me decide to debate it here. It happened way more than that case as mjazzg also clearly notified and after so many repeated times it started to irritate me. Some of them really made you feel like you're a complete lunatic buying records on vinyl and as I tried to point out with my thread starting post here I don't think people buying vinyl records are stupid but just enjoying one of the most fun hobbies around. 

24 minutes ago, felser said:

I would suggest adding "vinyl only" to the title when posting about a new release which is not being made available via CD or download.  That way, those who don't/can't collect vinyl ( many do not have the money/space/lifestyle to enable collecting vinyl) can skip over the posting rather than opening it, reading it, getting enthusiastic, researching it, and finding out that it is only being made available on vinyl.   The type of consideration being requested in this topic works both ways.  An alternative is to just post the posting in the The Vinyl Frontier sub-forum, which those who don't collect vinyl won't even look at.

Is youre dissapointment really that big? I'd say it goes very far to ban all vinyl talk from a music forum (except for that small subforum) only because some people around don't like the format. There are also digital only releases and of course I sometimes feel annoyed about them but that feeling goes away in about 5 minutes.

Edited Sunday at 03:25 PM by Pim

[Big Beat Steve]

43 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I think some of the perception of "hating" vinyl could stem from the fact that many of us, myself included, have built up an extensive collection of digital music and it makes these new reissues less important. I have shied away from Blue Note's LP reissue series because 1) I have ALL of the music already (usually with added material) & 2) I have experienced mastering issues on some of them that Blue Note refuses to fix. That is not me dissing vinyl at all. I'm dissing Blue Note.

BTW - these are my reasons for not buying any more of certain titles, not all LP reissues. Heck, I recently bought Eric Alexander's latest release on vinyl, so I'm not opposed to it in general.

I agree with you all the way with the price excesses of recently re-reissued NEW vinyl. At the price I see them in the racks at the few local record shops that still are there as well as at a record stall at a local concert they leave me cold and I find it easy to bypass them. And this not only applies to the unpteenth Blue Note remasters. Here and there I have shelled out a bit more than "usual" for new Sonorama vinyl, but at least they offer "new old" collectible music that has not been around before. 

BTW, IMO Felser's suggestion about how to post (i.e. adding "vinyl only" in the title) sounds reasonable to me.
Although, honestly, I do not find there is much need to make much of a fuss about missing out on a format. Here and there I've come across reissues of music that would have filled a gap in my collection too but on closer inspection it said "download mp3 only". Heave a sigh, shrug your shoulders, remember the total of records (analog and digital) you already have anyway, and just move on ... 

Edited Sunday at 03:43 PM by Big Beat Steve

[Dub Modal]

2 hours ago, mjazzg said:

I've largely stopped posting here, my loss I know and I'm not asking anyone to care,and the continued sniping at those expressing a passion for the LP format is one of the reasons.

The other day a thread was started with great enthusiasm about two recent LP reissues of important music. Within about two posts that enthusiasm had been dismissed by posts pointing out the lack of extra tracks that had been available on CD.

The thread was about the music but too soon comments, some with vaguely disguised snideness/dismissiveness had derailed what could have been a really interesting thread about the music contained on the release, rather than about the format.

To add the label in question, Sam Records, is - AFAIK, a small business. Basically a guy with a business model to release quality LPs that jazz loving vinyl buyers are looking for. I don't think he's aligned with any major labels and again, AFAIK, isn't breaking any laws. Some of his LPs aren't up my alley personally, but some are and the ones I've gotten are fantastic and great listens. 

Hope you come back more often 🍻

[Big Beat Steve]

19 minutes ago, Pim said:

Some of them really made you feel like you're a complete lunatic buying records on vinyl and as I tried to point out with my thread starting post here I don't think people buying vinyl records are stupid but just enjoying one of the most fun hobbies around. 

Funny ... this feeling you describe sounds strangely familiar.  Although I tend to shrug that off too - collecting is not an all-out rational thing so inevitably not everyone who is into the "core" of it (i.e. music of a certain style) will approach it the same way beyond that "core" of a common interest. In the case of our music this might, for example, be those who feel more comfortable storing and indexing their music on a hard drive and accessing it there on demand and don't necessarily attach maximum importance to liner notes, recording dates and the like. 
Just like some (like me, as you may have guessed) enjoy reading about the music in many ways whereas others can't be bothered even one second with printed matter relating to the music they listen to (noticed every now and then out there ...).
It's a bit like in my other collecting interest - collectible cars. I'm one of those who also enjoys rounding up all the documentation, both historical and technical, to go with my cars and burying myself into them to LEARN about the cars, their maintenance and their history. Whereas others "just want to drive" (the same kind of cars). Which is all very well, but at other moments they are not above asking the most clueless questions to "those in the know" because one day they do need some info after all but never bothered to learn even the basics about their cars themselves.  

Edited Sunday at 03:45 PM by Big Beat Steve