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CJ Shearn

who are Richard Williams and Harold Alexander?

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I just got it in today and find this to be an interesting grooving set, especially for my first Patton experience. I really dig "That Certain Feeling" and "Understanding" the most (the latter is playing is now for the first time). Who are Richard Williams and Harold Alexander though? have they done other dates? Williams sounds a lot like Blue Mitchell to me in some ways without as much control, the picture of Richard in the booklet looks like Blue a bit even. Alexander, I'm enjoying his very out edge, anyone have info on these cats?

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Is Richard Williams on Understanding too?! Man, I gotta get that......

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Harold Alexander did a couple dates as a leader on Flying Dutchman I believe (available from Dustygroove). He pretty much faded into the sunset after the early 70's but still plays and teaches at public schools to my knowledge.

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thanks. I guess those guys aren't obscure as I thought. I think what impresses me so far, although I need to give a deeper listen are John's basslines, comping, changes and imaginative use of stops. Just what is nthat stop he's using on "Fat Judy" for the head? I never heard that registration at all before.

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To hear more Richard Williams, also check Oliver Nelson's 'Screamin' the Blues' (it's available on OJC). Williams is in the line-up with Eric Dolphy and Roy Haynes!

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thanks.  I guess those guys aren't obscure as I thought.  I think what impresses me so far, although I need to give a deeper listen are John's basslines, comping, changes and imaginative use of stops.  Just what is  nthat stop he's using on "Fat Judy" for the head?  I never heard that registration at all before.

That's a very hard stop to figure out. I asked Big John about it and he said it was the 1st and last drawbards pulled all the way out. That's not right, and John couldn't remember beyond that.

John was a total master. His basslines are legendary. They're perfect. Better than almost any other organist IMHO. Especially of interest are his basslines on "That Certain Feeling." Some of those basslines are SOOOO difficult rhythmically. Almost impossible to play w/o screwing them up when playing leads.

He was so incredible.

Unless you're an organ player, John Patton's genius may not be so apparent. Basslines, comping and leads are not things that would seem obviously difficult or genius to someone casually listening. But, getting on a B3 a doing it is something different. John did some of the most difficult basswork under flowing solos that anyone ever attempted. People just don't think so because he made is SOUND easy...It AIN'T.

Edited by Soul Stream

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Just what is nthat stop he's using on "Fat Judy" for the head? I never heard that registration at all before.

Sounds like 508 000 000 with third percussion on, normal (instead of the usual "soft"), with fast decay.

I gotta get that set.

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Richard Williams worked with Mingus...

Yeah, in such capital works as "MingusX5" or "The black saint and the sinner lady". And in "Dinasty", "Mingus revisited" or the Complete Town Hall concert.

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His only record as a leader:

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Richard Williams also was in the Gigi Gryce quintet near the end of Gigi's career and appears on 3 albums:

Sayin' Somethin'

The Happ'nins

Rat Race Blues

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Unless you're an organ player, John Patton's genius may not be so apparent. Basslines, comping and leads are not things that would seem obviously difficult or genius to someone casually listening. But, getting on a B3 a doing it is something different. John did some of the most difficult basswork under flowing solos that anyone ever attempted. People just don't think so because he made is SOUND easy...It AIN'T.

That may be the reason why Patton didn't catch my attention as much as Melvin Rhyne or Don Patterson. The only Patton that went to my soul right away and made me groove was Got a good thing goin'. I'll check him out more closely after your comments. What is the one desert island John Patton disk, in your opinion?

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I'm certain there'll be many opinions on "the" Patton desert island session.

Mine is Oh, Baby!

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Unless you're an organ player, John Patton's genius may not be so apparent.  Basslines, comping and leads are not things that would seem obviously difficult or genius to someone casually listening.  But, getting on a B3 a doing it is something different.  John did some of the most difficult basswork under flowing solos that anyone ever attempted.  People just don't think so because he made is SOUND easy...It AIN'T.

That may be the reason why Patton didn't catch my attention as much as Melvin Rhyne or Don Patterson. The only Patton that went to my soul right away and made me groove was Got a good thing goin'. I'll check him out more closely after your comments. What is the one desert island John Patton disk, in your opinion?

I would say that it is "Got a Good Thing Goin," but Patton, like many other musicians of his time period went through several phases, so it is impossible to just pick one.

"That Certain Feeling" and "Memphis to NY Spirit" are desert island picks for his "1968 phase."

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Put me down for ACCENT ON THE BLUES, one of most favorite records PERIOD!

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Got a Good Thing Goin'

Smokes!

Eric

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I'd probably pick "Accent on the Blues" too, but "Understanding" is a real gem. . . . No real reason to have to have just one (or five!)

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Richard Williams makes a good frontline partner for Booker on "The Inbetweener". :tup

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I'd probably pick "Accent on the Blues" too, but "Understanding" is a real gem. . . .

DEFINITELY! :tup:tup:tup:tup:tup

What I wanna know though, is this - what the HELL are they doing on "Soul Man"? Sounds like they just took the hook and said "That's enough, we'll take it from here!"

Shoot, if you're gonna do it like that, why bother with crediting the source? Call it an "original" and pocket a few extra bucks. I don't think anybody would be any the wiser, given how tangentally (at best) related to the original this performance is.

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Hmmm. . .maybe having "Soul Man" on the back of the lp as a song title sold an additional 237 units? :blink:

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Richard Williams makes a good frontline partner for Booker on "The Inbetweener". :tup

Half of "The In Between" is a really fine, mostly 'inside' sort of hard-bop date.

The other half is outragiously 'inside' and 'outside' (at the same time!!), with even a bit of "Sun Ra"-ish-ness feel to it (especially on the tune "The Muse" - if I'm remember this album right).

Funny how this album has a sort of schizophrenic feel to it --- with literally half the tunes being totally at home on any early 60's hard-bop date, and the other half being half from some other planet -- and I mean that in the best way possible. B)

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Hmmm. . .maybe having "Soul Man" on the back of the lp as a song title sold an additional 237 units? :blink:

Yeah, but having a "Soul Woman" on the cover a la LET IT ROLL woulda sold a heckuva lot more! ;):g

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John Patton

angie_stone_pic1_main.jpg

UNDERSTANDING

Edited by jazzbo

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Richard Williams also was in the Gigi Gryce quintet near the end of Gigi's career and appears on 3 albums:

Sayin' Somethin'

The Happ'nins

Rat Race Blues

Up for Mike Fitzgerald next time he happens round these parts. I'm at work, but I'll try to check my copy of RAT RACE BLUES when I go home tonight to look for more info on Williams.

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More good Richard Williams too on Booker Ervin's 'The In Between' and Rahsaan Roland Kirk's 'Other Folks Music'. Lateef's 'Live at Peps' and Vol2 of same are not to be missed either. I also remember seeing him on TV in the mid 1970s as a featured soloist with Clark Terry's Big Bad Band. That was one heck of a unit ! :tup

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I can't play the desert island disc game with Patton. Unlike Jimmy Smith, Patton's Blue Notes are all so vastly different from each other that choosing is almost impossible. The difference between Smith's "Back at the Chicken Shack" and "Crazy Baby"....well, they're all pretty similar. Great but similar.

But as far as Patton goes... The difference between "Understanding" and "Got a Good Thing Going" "Lem Em Roll" or "Along Came John" (just NAME one)...well, that's a HELL of a lot of stylistic ground covered.

Patton was a chameleon. Lowdown blues player one minute, avante-guard funkster the next, sensitive balladeer a minute later....

Hey, I CAN'T pick. Which do you like better, your hands or feet?

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