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Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

1,231 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

The second part of my post, regarding the CD pressing plants, may be more in line with what you're saying. But that wouldn't explain the fiasco where a pressing plant closed and threw out Mosaic's CD masters. If the CDs were already pressed by the label, as you suppose, this wouldn't have resulted in the set going OOP instantly like what happened then.

Some thoughts; again, total conjecture from me.  If what you're describing happened more than a decade ago, the industry may have changed since then.  I'm thinking of JLH's recent post about how the majors have tightened their operating procedures so that he can't now independently mix his licensed releases.  In any event, what I described wouldn't preclude the major/pressing plant also pressing Mosaic's CDs on a just-in-time basis, with the quantity based on Mosaic's go-ahead.

Or: what you posted doesn't necessarily conflict with my post.  As we know, Mosaic produces their own masters with their own mixes.  If a pressing plant threw out Mosaic's masters, it might have cost Mosaic too much to recreate them, or they might not again have access to the original tapes to recreate them.

On a different subject, one more factor to consider: Cuscuna's nearing retirement age, as other Mosaic principals might be.  It could be that all this is part of a natural winding-down of the label.  It's not like they're a public company, where operating in perpetuity is possible.

55 minutes ago, sonnyhill said:

Mosaic is also competing against the likes of this set, which is available at Amazon for under $20.00, including US shipping.  It has significant overlap with the Mosaic MJQ set, which costs about $130.00, including US shipping. 

To add insult to injury, they might have used the Mosaic box as a source for many of these recordings.

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they wouldn't need the original tape to re-create the 'mixes' because they could use any CD that was part of the issue.

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1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

they wouldn't need the original tape to re-create the 'mixes' because they could use any CD that was part of the issue.

There's no degradation of quality between the master and a pressed CD?

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Even if there were degradation in the analog to digital transfer, the final product would be the same whether it came from the tape, or a CD. 

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3 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

thanks; it seems to have gone away once I posted -

an empty box in this thread is quite appropriate.

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Regardless of the "back order" reason, I'm still hesitant to place an order for one considering their tenuous financial situation.

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1 hour ago, BFrank said:

Regardless of the "back order" reason, I'm still hesitant to place an order for one considering their tenuous financial situation.

Not sure if this is your concern, but they don't bill for a product until it's shipped.

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4 hours ago, mjzee said:

There's no degradation of quality between the master and a pressed CD?

there should not be any loss from the analog original if it is transferred properly in terms of converters, etc. Any digital copy should sound identical to the first generation analog - this is why bootlegging is such a problem in the digital era. If Mosaic - or Nessa -  puts something out in pristine sound, I can clone it and do same. But that would be wrong, that's for sure. *****

 

 

 

****Richard Nixon

Edited by AllenLowe

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9 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

I'm not going to insult anyone who waits for a Mosaic sale, but there have been some nasty surprises like the Stuff Smith set being yanked from sale suddenly because of legal difficulties and the sets that were deleted when the pressing plant disposed of their masters without warning. So late buyer, beware... I waited too long was for the Grant Green set. They were out of booklets, but provided me with a slightly creased booklet with an X over the designated set number that had been used for reference. Of course, I missed a few early sets that lapsed from print that are still on my wish list.

A good friend died in December 2012 and I imagine that his widow is still holding his collection, though she doesn't listen to them. If I can ever get her to sell any of them, I'll have her share the list on this board in place of having her getting gouged by eBay.

 

  I didn't mean to insult anyone for waiting for a mosaic sale....it's just that we are having a wake up call of sorts with the possibility of mosaic closing shop.   If it's something that you really want and have been waiting a long , long time for the long awaited material to be reissued then I say don't hesitate.   When I got interested in 1920's, 30's, and 40's music for the first time last year,  I bought 9 mosaic sets over the next 4 months.   Was not much of a mosaic buyer before but I knew that there forte was the old music.

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7 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

The second part of my post, regarding the CD pressing plants, may be more in line with what you're saying. But that wouldn't explain the fiasco where a pressing plant closed and threw out Mosaic's CD masters. If the CDs were already pressed by the label, as you suppose, this wouldn't have resulted in the set going OOP instantly like what happened then.

 

2 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

there should not be any loss from the analog original if it is transferred properly in terms of converters, etc. Any digital copy should sound identical to the first generation analog - this is why bootlegging is such a problem in the digital era.

Allen, if you're correct, then Mosaic's reasoning in Kevin's post makes no sense.  If the pressing plant threw out the masters, it should have been easy for Mosaic to create a new set and complete the run.  Unless they used that as an excuse for no longer selling that title (which is possible).

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14 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

YEAH! So all of you folks here need to stop being smart consumers, and simply spend willy nilly so that the rest of us idiots with more money than brains don't suffer! 

An excellently stupid and insulting post, bigbandrecords! :) 

  Didn't intend to come off that way......nothing wrong with being a smart consumer and I know that the price point(17.00)per CD on the mosaic can be daunting,  but don't you guys get enough OTHER good deals on box sets at the 2-4 dollar per CD price point(Think about the "Are there any box bargains available thread").  My point is if you really want the material and have been a long time waiting for Mosaic to put it out, why hesitate?  I think the best thing Mosaic can do up front here on out is announced limited pressings of 1000-1500 and have a lot more different projects going on at the same time.

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1 hour ago, mjzee said:

 

Allen, if you're correct, then Mosaic's reasoning in Kevin's post makes no sense.  If the pressing plant threw out the masters, it should have been easy for Mosaic to create a new set and complete the run.  Unless they used that as an excuse for no longer selling that title (which is possible).

That's not the way it works. Digital masters can be duplicated but glass masters for manufacturing are expensive and one needs a press run of at least a thousand to make it worthwhile.

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The pieces that actually press the friggin' cds.

It is still a mechanical process.

Edited by Chuck Nessa

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23 hours ago, felser said:

Also Adolpho Phillips, who was a 12 WAR Center Fielder 1966-1968.

My friend and I once made a list of all the can't miss Philly prospects from about 1965.  Alopho was on that list.  Did about as well as the rest of them.

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57 minutes ago, hbbfam said:

My friend and I once made a list of all the can't miss Philly prospects from about 1965.  Alopho was on that list.  Did about as well as the rest of them.

Posted in wrong forum perhaps?

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1 hour ago, hbbfam said:

My friend and I once made a list of all the can't miss Philly prospects from about 1965.  Alopho was on that list.  Did about as well as the rest of them.

I hope the list included Hasaan Ibn Ali.  ;)

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10 hours ago, alankin said:

Not sure if this is your concern, but they don't bill for a product until it's shipped.

Thanks. Good to know.

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16 hours ago, mjzee said:

 

Allen, if you're correct, then Mosaic's reasoning in Kevin's post makes no sense.  If the pressing plant threw out the masters, it should have been easy for Mosaic to create a new set and complete the run.  Unless they used that as an excuse for no longer selling that title (which is possible).

exactly; the only time there could be an issue is with multi-track originals; theoretically you might want to master from the original to get as close as possible to the source - but, if the mix is good, then the CD which represents the mix down should be absolutely fine.

though as far as I know, most if not all of their product is from 2 track masters.

16 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

That's not the way it works. Digital masters can be duplicated but glass masters for manufacturing are expensive and one needs a press run of at least a thousand to make it worthwhile.

good point, had not thought of that; if the plant tossed out the glass masters, there is an associated cost with re-doing them. Though it's not enormous from what I know - as for a thousand run, Chuck - I currently am able to make bulk CDs - real cds -  (I assemble the art separately) for 45 cents per cd on runs of 500 which includes the glass; this has enabled me to do a lot of CD issues - are you paying much less than this for a thousand (and I am not asking how much you are paying)? If it's none of my business, no need to answer.

Edited by AllenLowe

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Update To The Mosaic Records Community

Mosaic Newsletter

 

Dear Mosaic Friend,

In this time and place, the Mosaic business model is becoming harder and harder to sustain in this rapidly changing world. We aren't sure what the future will hold for us, but we want to let all of you know how much we appreciate that your support has allowed us to constantly make our dreams come true with set after set and that we intend to persevere. The way we operate may change but our mandate remains steadfast.

Charlie Lourie and I started Mosaic Records in 1982 and our first releases were in 1983. The company was almost an afterthought. The idea of definitive boxed sets of complete recordings by jazz masters at a crucial time in their careers was a small part of a proposal that we made to Capitol Records in 1982 to relaunch the Blue Note label. Even before Capitol turned us down, it occurred to me one night that the release of these boxed sets could be a business unto itself if we made them deluxe, hand-numbered limited editions sold directly to the public.

Our first release was The Complete Blue Note Recordings of Thelonious Monk, which came about because I'd found about 25 minutes of excellent unissued Monk on Blue Note. It was too short for an album and I was obsessed with how to get this music released. . It then dawned on me that all of this important material needed to be retransferred and assembled in chronological order as a significant historic document.  I solved my problem of releasing those 25 minutes of Monk music and Mosaic Records was born. We had a wonderful run of projects. The Tina Brooks, Herbie Nichols, Serge Chaloff,  Count Basie and Nat Cole sets were among those that were especially near and dear to our hearts.

Charlie was my best friend and working together was a joy. Mosaic was slow getting started and it took a few years before we could even draw a meager salary. I remember during those lean years worrying if we could afford to put out a Tina Brooks set. Charlie looked at me in amazement. "Isn't that why we started this thing - to do what's important without anyone telling us no?!" He only had to say it once.

In 1989, we moved out of Charlie's basement and into our own facility. Scott Wenzel joined us in 1987. We added employees as the business grew. We started issuing sets on CD as well as LP and eventually had our own website.

We lost Charlie to scleroderma on December 31, 2000. We managed to keep the tone and spirit of the company up to the level that Charlie created and continued to put out thoroughly researched vital sets of importance in jazz history. But in the early 2000s, the record business began to shrink and morph for a variety of reasons and we were forced to downsize our staff, move to smaller quarters and reduce the flow of sets. 

We've always tried to be diligent about warning you when sets were running low so you wouldn't miss out on titles that you wanted. But at this point, some sets which are temporarily out of stock may not be pressed again. We are not certain  how Mosaic Records will continue going forward or how many more sets we will be able to create and release. We've got a lot of great plans but few resources.

Scott and I want to thank every single person who has supported us, made suggestions, given advice and shown us such love and affection. If you are thinking about acquiring a certain set, now's the time.

-     - Michael Cuscuna

 

 

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Thank you for your support. Sincerely, All of us at

Mosaic Records

 

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This reads like a good bye letter. :mellow:

Good luck to you, and godspeed! Whatever you do, I'm looking forward to buying music from you again...and again. And again.

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Just got the email too - pretty well re-iterated the information given to J.A.W and others.

What a great story that is from Mosaic's inception and what a string of achievements !  Whatever happens, they get my eternal thanks and very best wishes. Plus hopefully more orders..

By total coincidence my latest Jazz Messengers packages have arrived. All in immaculate condition and packaged like Faberge eggs. Anyone going that route to pick up the sets they need can be pretty confident on the shipping (disclaimers apply :)).

Edited by sidewinder

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Yeah, the writing's on the wall.  Time to buy sets now.

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"But at this point, some sets which are temporarily out of stock may not be pressed again."

Damn, I waited too long on that Clifford Jordan set!

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Mosaic's message just prompted me to pull the trigger on this:

THE COMPLETE 1932-1940 BRUNSWICK, COLUMBIA AND MASTER RECORDINGS OF DUKE ELLINGTON AND HIS FAMOUS ORCHESTRA

tumblr_oh0vwxv3Ux1qey9fjo1_r2_400.jpg

I already have Ellington's Small Group set from Mosaic and the RCA Centennial box -- so I'm glad I got to order this set before Mosaic disappears over the horizon.

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