ghost of miles

Mosaic Records is releasing a Savory collection set

244 posts in this topic

23 hours ago, Fred said:

Same here.

Anyway, my credit card was charged few hours ago.

Mine was charged back on May 29. Still no sign of the set. Patience....patience.......

 

 

gregmo

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My set arrived yesterday. Haven't had a chance to play any of it yet but it looks great.

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Just got the shipping notice.  Probably will arrive early next week.

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The Savory set finally arrived, and I opened it to find that I have booklet number "2." There's proof positive that Mosaic sets really are random. I'd have thought that Cuscuna or Wenzel would have gotten the first numbered booklets, but I guess not!

Lacking any of the self-control some of you exercised, I went straight to the first Basie disc (V), because the Old Testament Band has always been my favorite big band, period. The magnificent exuberance of that band comes through loud and clear, and I came as close as I ever have to one my earliest and most exquisite listening experiences: the first time I put the old Decca 2-record "Best of Count Basie" disc on my old "portable" stereo turntable nearly 50 years ago. Jimmy Rushing in full shout, Lester Young unloosed, Herschel Evans before early death robbed us of him. I am *really* going to enjoy this set!!!

 

 

gregmo

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6 hours ago, gmonahan said:

 

Lacking any of the self-control some of you exercised, I went straight to the first Basie disc (V), because the Old Testament Band has always been my favorite big band, period.  

gregmo

Me too.  The Randall's Island stuff is amazing. 

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On 6/13/2018 at 10:58 AM, gmonahan said:

The Savory set finally arrived, and I opened it to find that I have booklet number "2." There's proof positive that Mosaic sets really are random. I'd have thought that Cuscuna or Wenzel would have gotten the first numbered booklets, but I guess not!

Lacking any of the self-control some of you exercised, I went straight to the first Basie disc (V), because the Old Testament Band has always been my favorite big band, period. The magnificent exuberance of that band comes through loud and clear, and I came as close as I ever have to one my earliest and most exquisite listening experiences: the first time I put the old Decca 2-record "Best of Count Basie" disc on my old "portable" stereo turntable nearly 50 years ago. Jimmy Rushing in full shout, Lester Young unloosed, Herschel Evans before early death robbed us of him. I am *really* going to enjoy this set!!!

 

 

gregmo

The 1938 band, with Dickie Wells and Hershel Evans, is my favorite big band too  The Savory tracks are a great way to hear what a grand tenor player Hershel Evans was.

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14 hours ago, johnblitweiler said:

The 1938 band, with Dickie Wells and Hershel Evans, is my favorite big band too  The Savory tracks are a great way to hear what a grand tenor player Hershel Evans was.

Couldn't agree more. The notes point out how important this set is for expanding Hershel Evans's discography. His version of "Star Dust" on disc one is really lovely.

 

 

gregmo

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5 minutes ago, gmonahan said:

Couldn't agree more. The notes point out how important this set is for expanding Hershel Evans's discography. His version of "Star Dust" on disc one is really lovely.

 

 

gregmo

Also expands the Prez on clarinet discograpahy.  

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I've found the liner notes, compared to many previous Mosaic sets, to be a real hash at times; Loren Schoenberg is not at all the top of his game IMO (at times it's like he SELLING the set to us; hey, we've already bought it), and there are some semi-pointless or worse contributions from other writers. Thanks be, Dan Morgenstern remains calm and himself.

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For a moment I was considering asking everybody who's going overboard in their praises here to PLEEEEZE have mercy on us overseas buyers who yet have to wait for a couple weeks more for the set to show up at our doorsteps, given overseas shipping lead times. :D  BUT - your comment on the liner notes (coming from a pro in the field) has me wondering ... What happened in your opinion? Someone ran out of superlatives before writing the actual notes to THIS set? Newly discovered recordings too difficult to work into a reevaluated assessment of the featured artists' bodies of work of this period? Didn't the download instalments inculde "liner" notes too? Do they differ markedly form what's included here? In what direction? If so, I wonder why ...
But coming to think of it, all this AGAIN raises the curiosity and anticipation to be be able to check for yourself. So nothing gained - and one MORE reason in fact to itch for the set to arrive ... oh well ... ^_^

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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Just arrived!

( intercepted by the pirates of the caribbean, but who cares...)

6BD3B154-D690-496A-A70B-C06DA769ACB5.jpeg

04798D9E-7A81-4D97-9790-811E84985B7A.jpeg

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I hope to pick up mine at the Jazz Bash in NJ this Friday. 

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20 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

I've found the liner notes, compared to many previous Mosaic sets, to be a real hash at times; Loren Schoenberg is not at all the top of his game IMO (at times it's like he SELLING the set to us; hey, we've already bought it), and there are some semi-pointless or worse contributions from other writers. Thanks be, Dan Morgenstern remains calm and himself.

It is occasionally a bit confusing as to exactly who is writing which notes. As for Loren, maybe he was just a little too close to this one? That said, I found most of the notes to be pretty good (especially Morganstern) and the music to be wonderful.  And medjuck is right--some very fine Pres clarinet here!

 

 

gregmo

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5 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

For a moment I was considering asking everybody who's going overboard in their praises here to PLEEEEZE have mercy on us overseas buyers who yet have to wait for a couple weeks more for the set to show up at our doorsteps, given overseas shipping lead times. :D  BUT - your comment on the liner notes (coming from a pro in the field) has me wondering ... What happened in your opinion? Someone ran out of superlatives before writing the actual notes to THIS set? Newly discovered recordings too difficult to work into a reevaluated assessment of the featured artists' bodies of work of this period? Didn't the download instalments inculde "liner" notes too? Do they differ markedly form what's included here? In what direction? If so, I wonder why ...
But coming to think of it, all this AGAIN raises the curiosity and anticipation to be be able to check for yourself. So nothing gained - and one MORE reason in fact to itch for the set to arrive ... oh well ... ^_^

As to what happened -- and others my feel otherwise about the notes than I do -- I have several guesses, though they're only guesses: 1) As the notes explain, almost from the first Loren Schoenberg was "in" on the find and the difficult process of getting the Savory material out; thus he may have felt a kind of pride of ownership that distorted his normal approach of what to say about the music, which has stood him in good stead on previous Mosaic sets. So perhaps "pride of ownership" led him at times and IMO to write as though he were selling this music to us. 2) There may have been time constraints/some urgency to get the set out ASAP, which led Mosaic and/or Schoenberg to bring in others to add comments/bear part of the liner notes burden. Dan Morgenstern's presence goes without saying, and would that he had done much more. At the moment I don't feel like singling out those writers whose contributions seem "off" to me; I already have enough of a censorious bastard reputation.

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44 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

As to what happened -- and others my feel otherwise about the notes than I do -- I have several guesses, though they're only guesses: 1) As the notes explain, almost from the first Loren Schoenberg was "in" on the find and the difficult process of getting the Savory material out; thus he may have felt a kind of pride of ownership that distorted his normal approach of what to say about the music, which has stood him in good stead on previous Mosaic sets. So perhaps "pride of ownership" led him at times and IMO to write as though he were selling this music to us. 2) There may have been time constraints/some urgency to get the set out ASAP, which led Mosaic and/or Schoenberg to bring in others to add comments/bear part of the liner notes burden. Dan Morgenstern's presence goes without saying, and would that he had done much more. At the moment I don't feel like singling out those writers whose contributions seem "off" to me; I already have enough of a censorious bastard reputation.

These recordings are presumably the best of what they could clear.  On top of that they were already pre- selected by Savory: I was told by Loren while at the museum that the discs were dubs.  My assumption is that Savory  chose the best ones to dub from a much larger group of recordings.  Perhaps those complaining about the notes could point out the cuts they think are not worthy of praise. 

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Someone is saying that there are unworthy tracks?

I take it that Larry's complaint is, at worst, over-enthusiasm not misplaced enthusiasm.

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If I got Larry Kart right I understand this to mean there was too much talk about HOW great the music is instead of analyzing WHY it is so great. Like Larry said - those who read the liner notes already HAVE the set so do not need to be sold on it - contrary to what the average sales blurb on the back of many LPs was intended for.

Anyway ... one more reason to look eagerly forward to receiving the set. Lots of explorations to be done, including in the notes. ;)

That aside, I guess there can be times when liner notes just aren't quite what they usually are with a given collector's label that has set high standards. Compared to the explorations of every bit of historical details not easily accessible or not documented at all before that Uptown often managed to come up with in the booklets of many other releases, I for one find the notes to the Illinois Jacquet/Leo Parker rather a superficial hack job, for example. Those who buy such a specialist relase on this specialist label no doubt are aware of the key biographical details of the featured artists.

 

 

Edited by Big Beat Steve

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Please stop 🛑. This set isn’t a reality yet this side of the pond. I hope it arrives soon as I’ve got nothing else to listen to 😮

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2 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Someone is saying that there are unworthy tracks?

I take it that Larry's complaint is, at worst, over-enthusiasm not misplaced enthusiasm.

Yes, that's my basic complaint, plus what Big Beat Steve said -- "too much talk about HOW great the music is instead of analyzing WHY it is so great," especially when Loren in previous Mosaic booklets has done the latter quite handsomely -- e.g. the brilliant passages about Dave Tough in the Woody Herman set. As for the cuts that are not worthy of praise, I'm still working my way through the Savory set, but I was underwhelmed by the Waller broadcast from 1938 on Disc I -- and I'm a Waller admirer par excellence. These tracks IMO are certainly not up to the level of, say, the 1939 Waller and His Rhythm broadcast on the 2-CD Stash set "The Definitive Fats Waller." Also, the paragraph from Ethan Iverson that is inserted into Dan's notes on the Waller material is gratuitous ("However, all that jolly joshing [from Waller] obscures just what a fine pianist he is" -- really? obscures for whom?) and IMO both gratuitous and bizarre -- "Most importantly, Waller's relaxed swing remains a gold standard for the era. There are times when James P. Johnson, Eubie Blake, Willie 'The Lion' Smith, and Earl 'Fatha' Hines seem a little choppy by modern standards. That's not true of Fats, whose smooth swing remains timeless."

Hines, for one, was "a little choppy" -- this "by modern standards" no less -- while Hines' sense of swing is apparently less than "timeless"? Oy vey.

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Larry, my main motivation in thinking about getting this is the presence of the Basie stuff; do you think that would justify the cost?

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Edited by AllenLowe

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Seriously, I’m, like, if you want this set, you don’t need to be sold or otherwise be convinced of the rightness of your purchase. You either know who these people were or you don’t. I enjoy pleasant commentary as much as anybody, but at what point am I wasting my time to read about how great Lester Young or Fats Waller were, right, I mean DUH that’s why I’m buying this fucker in the first place!!!!!!!

Now, pictures, if they got some really cool pictures...think of how many thousands of words that would save.

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2 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

Larry, my main motivation in thinking about getting this is the presence of the Basie stuff; do you think that would justify the cost?

Haven't listened to all the Basie tracks yet, but  so far "yes."

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