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I guess a lot does depend on what you mean by rock and roll. Maybe it if you don't mean Bill Haley or Jerry Lee Lewis or Chuck Berry but instead mean the Rolling Stones. The Jim Dawson and Steve Propes book sounds really interesting. And a far more sensible approach to dealing with the question than any other that I could think of.

More EKE:

A bit or more of hype in that poster...really no "scandal" involved. But is is a pretty "moody" film, could have been played for straight soap, but wasn't.

"Rocket 88" may be considered the direct precursor of the more outgoing, rougher small-group (usually Black) R'n'R recordings with a driving, rocking, no-frills rhythm. Of course the stylistic boundaries did overlap, so "Rocket 88" is just as much straight-ahead R&B as it may be labeled very early (i.e. pre-)R'n'R. But at any rate Rock'n'Roll is a many-faceted genre. (I.e. REAL R'n'R of the pre-Beatles and preferably pre-assembly line Teen Idol era à la Avalon, Vee, Rydell etc. - and specifically NOT the blurred U.S. "definition" of R'n'R that would even label almost anything among later Rock as "Rock'n'Roll", from Psychedelic via Hard Rock and Alice Cooper et al. to Heavy Metal) So it depends on what elements you hear in what tune from the pre-R'n'R era that might inspire you to see it as the first blossoming of musica traits that were omnipresent in c.1954-63 R'n'R. Perennial food for thought and discussions of this will be found in "What Was The First Rock'n'Roll Record?" by Jim Dawson and Steve Propes. This book discusses 50 recordings that might qualify (depending on what aspect of R'n'R it is all about) - ranging (chronologically speaking) from "Blues Pt. 2" by that JATP crew of 1944 (for Illinois Jacquet's tenor sax solo as the father of all rockin' saxes) to Elvis' "Heartbreak Hotel" of 1956 (which would conform to rather a narrow, mainstreamish definition of the genre), and lots of in-betweens that all deserve some reflection. One overriding criterion of what would qualify as the "first" R'n'R record certainly is if these early recordings would alienate the typical crowds of the 50s-style R'n'R subculture when they are worked into the flow of tunes at record hops of if they would fit seamlessly in. From my own observations at such events I can tell you they would NOT be out of place there. (O.K., maybe some narrow-minded purists might object to a number of them, but they would quibble about certain authentic R'n'R tracks too) And then there are some that aren't even listed. E.g. "Diggin' My Potatoes" by Washboard Sam that for its rhythm alone may rightfully be considered the ancestor of most rockabilly tunes.

Jacob stole the blessing.

Maybe. That is closer to what my ears say. Although there's some complex musical DNA back there.

Bill Marx Trio - My Son The Folk Swinger

March 4 Bobby Shew - 1941

I've never had trouble just copying and pasting video URL into the body of the post. As to the question of "early rock n roll" maybe Ike got it right (from Wiki): In a later interview, however, Ike Turner offered this comment: "I don't think that 'Rocket 88' is rock 'n' roll. I think that 'Rocket 88' is R&B, but I think 'Rocket 88' is the cause of rock and roll existing"

👍- as LP reissue SAVOY JAZZ SJC (MG 12121) from 1985 on my shelf ...

Last night and again now:

March 4 Ricky Ford - 1954

I never quite understood why Rocket 88 is considered early rock and roll. To my ears it sounds fairly squarely R&B. I guess the lyrics are about driving around getting teenage kicks.

I saw Palmer last year at Ronnie's and he was really good. Off to the Vortex this evening in Dalston to watch Florian Albenz featuring Greg Osby.

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Thanks !

Two excellent finds!

Jason Palmer “Rhyme and Reason” Giant Step Arts 2 cd set, cd 1 with Mark Turner, Matt Brewer and Kendrick Scott

Ts find in unplayed mint condition. These are the Teldec reference recordings ! excellent !

I'm thinking about seeing Nick Goumas and Jason Palmer at Arthur's House of Jazz in Methuen Thursday night, but I just saw them at The Press Room a few months ago. Plus, no one seems able to go to this one, so I'd have to go solo.

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