bertrand

I just thought of something. Are these Miles boxes on itunes? This way, I could buy the individual CDs and just buy the extra tracks from itunes (for the 60s quintet box, for example). Bertrand.

Well, we're two hours away and I haven't heard back so I guess no one can go. I'm 90% sure I will not be going, but there's still hope. Bertrand.

I'm with Mike on this too, but I still want to see those lead sheets! I found a copyright number for all tunes except 'Barcelona', so we should be able to get an independent confirmation by process of elimination. Bertrand.

Mike, I see your point about the liner notes, and I will ignore them completely. I think your composer credits in the posting above may be incorrect. I did a search at www.loc.gov and found EU copyright numbers for 'Prints Tie', 'Ummh' and 'Procession' under Hutcherson's name. The All Music Guide listing (which of course we can't really trust) also has 'Ummh' by Bobby; they say the second Sample tune is 'Goin' Down South', which makes sense, since you say it is on another Crusaders record. OK, off to the Library of Congress to see if I can find EU numbers for the Sample tunes and the Land piece. I can send a request for all this over the week-end, and if all goes well, I'll have lead sheets to look at next Friday and compare (using my limited piano skills) to the CD which I can copy to my new ipod - this gives me a good reason to actually try to learn how to use this thing before next week! Bertrand.

Actually, this might help me get started (i.e., I may go to the Library of Congress real quick at lunch). What are the composer credits for each piece on the CD? I'll also check AMG. If anyone can post this by 1 PM EST, that would help. Bertrand.

This is getting really interesting. Mike made one unimpeachable point that track # 3 on the CD matches the tune called 'Jazz' on the Crusaders album (I believe him, but I have not checked out the soundbite yet to confirm). On the other hand, as Dr. J points out, the instrumentation described in the liners vs. the audible instrumentation should give some clues as well; I'm sure Mike was working with that as well. When I first posted this and Dr. J provided his track listing, I was pretty much convinced after reading the liners. But the thing about track # 3 definitely being 'Jazz' throws me off, so I need to revisit this. 'Procession' was also recorded (but rejected) for the Spiral/Medina sessions. Perhaps other pieces appear elsewhere as well (the Lord CD-ROM should answer that quickly). One way to settle this would be to try to get in touch with Hutcherson, Sample and Cuscuna. I will also try to see if I can dig up some copyright deposits. As we have seen in another thread on Mobley (e.g. the 'Soft Impressions'/'Chain Reaction' controversy), this may not settle things for sure, but it might help. To be continued... Bertrand.

Charles Tolliver Big Band (could still happen). Old And New Dreams (too late now). Bertrand.

billyboy, And that's why I was wondering if the sessions would come out individually as well (especially Berlin and Tokyo). I buy very few box sets (mostly Mosaics, of which have 7 or 8 - a lot less than other board members). Here are some reasons, some of which apply even to Mosaics, although I'm mostly thinking about the Miles Columbia boxes: 1. The packaging is often horrible (glue on the Miles Columbia boxes, CDs hard to get out withough breaking, illegible booklets, rust) 2. The price is high: $17 or $18 per CD; on sale, Miles CDs are usually $8.99 or even $7.99 3. The track order is often the recording order; therefore all 7 alternates come one after the other, and you might get three ballads in a row. A lot of jazz LPs were sequenced in a certain way for a reason. 4. You don't get the original album covers. Some people may not care about these things (especially 3 and 4), but I do. The main plus of box sets is to get some tracks that may never appear individually elsewhere. Often, though, these tracks are throw-aways. I did buy the Bitches' Brew and Silent Way sets because there was enough extra material that did not appear elsewhere. However, I bought the 60s quintet stuff in individual CDs. I'm only missing a few tunes, mostly rehearsal takes. Bertrand.

I don't usually pre-order stuff (what's the rush?), but I may make an exception: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...product-details Bertrand.

Mike, A couple of comments for the Wayne Shorter part of your listing. 1. Two pieces are in the new book (without an asterisk) that you did not mention in your listing of Wayne compositions from the old book: 'Fall' and 'Mysterious Traveller' (I assume it's Wayne's 'Fall'). 2. You mentioned that 'Mr. Jin' had been dropped; it is not in your listing of missing songs beginning with 'M'. Bertrand.

A general comment. Although I agree with Mike in theory that the real book should only be a starting point, in practice, I see it used all the time at jam sessions, and I have to admit, this bothers me less than the alternative, which is to hear the same tired standards over and over because these are the only tunes that everyone knows without using the book. At least the real book has some fairly obscure pieces in it (like most of those Wayne Shorter compositions listed above). On one hand, I should shut up because I am not a musician, but on the other hand, I am a paying customer, so I should have some opinion of what is played. I stopped going to jam sessions because of this, and only started again because it's something laid back enough that I can bring my 4-year-old to. And even he has grown tired of some tunes Bertrand.

Thanks Mike! That was quick. It also looks like the spelling for 'Dolores' and the title for 'Yes And No' match the copyrights in the Hal Leonard book, but not in the old real book. Bertrand.

A couple of Wayne Shorter questions related to this new 'legal' Real Book. 1. Are there any Wayne Shorter compositions that were in the illegal book that are not in this one (I guess they could show up in volume 2)? Conversely, any Wayne pieces that are in the legal book that were not in the illegal book? 2. Is E.S.P. still credited to Miles as it was in the illegal book, or has it been corrected? Wayne is sole composer of this piece, according to the copyright deposits. 3. The illegal book had a piece called 'Black Diamond' credited to Roland Kirk. Is this in fact Wayne's composition from Introducing, or is it a different Kirk piece that I'm not aware of? Who is credited as composer in the legal book? 4. Someone once showed me a fake/real book that they had which included a Wayne piece called 'Message From Sol'. This blew my mind, because that piece (copyrighted in 1960) has never been recorded, at least not under that title. This piece is not in the new legal book. Was it in the illegal book? Does anyone know which book it was in? Thanks in advance, Bertrand. P.S.: I just read Mike's second post about the alphebitization thing. I remember a hilarious passage in a Peter DeVries novel where the character went nuts going through a songbook when he saw a listing in the index for 'Camptown Races, De'.

Interesting idea for an article. I think you should definitely discuss the last Lee Morgan session (the one where he's wearing that hideous blue suit). It is a unique animal in his discography, and may (or may not) indicate where he was going. And you can't get a more unexpected death. Even the woman who shot him was surprised. Bertrand.

Can anyone help me find the song listing for this new real book (sixth edition). I'm drawing a blank with google. Thanks, Bertrand.

Upping this only because now I'm not so sure I can go - my wife is sick, so I may have to hang out with my son that night. I'm still trying to go, so if you are interested at all send me a PM with a phone number to reach you on Friday - I'll know at the last minute. If I can't make it, but you want a coupon, maybe I can somehow get that to you depending on where you are on Friday. Bertrand.

Quote from Dennis Hastert: 'I don't know how David Ayers made his first billion. I [we] umhhh ... umhhh. [We] I really don't know. I'm not saying he has an in with drug dealers. I don't know if he always takes advantage of that 'win 100 euros if you're the first to review this CD' from amazon.fr. I just don't know'. Bertrand.

I loved that series. I remember buying about 15 in one week-end, something I usually never do. There were some titles that were gone real fast (Delightfulee). I was out of town on business on the Tuesday they came out, and when I came back on Friday, I had to hunt all over D.C. In Blue Note's defense, a lot of the hard-to-find titles are now appearing as RVGs. Without wanting to start the sound quality topic again, some of them have real wierd sound. Bertrand.

Lon, Thanks. I'm looking forward to seeing what tunes are on the Japanese CD. Bertrand.

Brandon, Sorry the Library of Congress didn't pan out - the government is notoriously slow, and they lose a lot of good people by dragging thier feet. Stanford comes out the winner. When is your last day? Let's try to get together before you leave. Bertrand.

Lon, I think I saw this Japanese CD once at Tower, but it was like $35 and I already had the French CD ) - I assumed it would come out in the US eventually (this was, like, 10 years ago!). I think the first CD is the same as the French single CD, and the second CD is the Five Stars studio session (which I have never heard) with the four tracks listed above. If so, could you confirm that the four tracks are long enough to make up a separate CD. Then maybe Sony will put it out in my lifetime. I'm only 41, there's still hope Bertrand.

OK, let's re-open the issue of the discographical confusion... THE FACTS 1. The new CD claims that CD1 was recorded on 7/26/79, and CD2 on 7/27/79. CD1 has all the material from the French CD (which is the only previous version I have), albeit with slightly different timings, PLUS 'Eye Of The Hurricane', which was mentioned in the liner notes of the French CD as either being unissued because another version appears on Tempest In The Colosseum (1977), or completely unrecorded (depending on which sentence you're reading). Clearly, it was recorded! CD2 is supposedly all unissued material. Only CD2 has a Herbie/Wayne duet, which is therefore allegedly previously unreleased, if you believe the asterisks, and should date from 7/27, if you believe the CD booklet. 2. The French CD HAS a version of the duet (almost the same timing), which it claims is from 7/26. The story about the rainstorm seems to imply that the duet was on 7/26, and was a spontaneous thing (which Herbie also seems to imply in his brief essay in the new CD). Since Belden says very little about the second show, it is not clear if a duet was played there as well. 3. The reproduction of the original LP cover shows that the duet WAS on the original LP. 4. The unremovable sticker on the CD case says there are 66+ minutes of new music. If you count CD2 WITHOUT the duet, it's about 68 minutes. POSSIBLE SCENARIOS 1. A duet was played each night. The original vinyl had the track from the first night, as did the French CD. The new CD leaves off the duest from 7/26 from CD1 for lack of space, but includes a (previously unissued) duet from 7/27 on CD2 because there is room (most tracks are a little shorter on 7/27). Disingenuously, the new reissue does not mention that a previously issued track is omitted for lack of space. OR, more likely, 2. The duet track is actually from 7/26, but included on CD2 for lack of space (I would have put it at the beginning, personally). There was no duet on 7/27 (or at least, it is not being issued here). The asterisks indicating the duet is previously unissued are incorrect, which would explain the 66+ as opposed to the 75+ that you would get if you add up all of CD2. I have not yet had time to A/B the duets from the French reissue and the new CD, but that would help clear this up once and for all. The odds that Wayne and Herbie played the tune the exact same way two nights in a row is highly unlikely (this is not Weather Report). Any other ideas? AUXILIARY QUESTIONS 1. The French CD of Tempest calls the Colosseum Den-en, the French CD of the 1979 concert calls it Denen, Belden calls it Denon. Which is it? 2. Apparently, there was also a huge storm during the 1977 concert! 3. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is also a studio session from 7/29/79 called Five Stars. It has only come out in Japan. There are only four tracks: 'Skagly' (Hubbard), 'Finger Painting' (Hancock), 'Mutants On The Beach' (Williams) (which later appeared on his Blue Note record Civilization), and 'Circe' (Shorter), which I have been told is actually 'Atlantis'. Does anyone have timings on these? Is this session long enough that it could be issued as a single CD later? Since it would be one CD, Borders could sell it for $27.99. My opinion of this sloppy work on Sony's part: Bertrand.

Do you automatically get 100 euros for being the first to review a CD at amazon.fr If so, I'm going to be doing a lot of reviewing, unless Newt beats me to it. Bertrand.

Thanks for the tip about the Borders price! I'm sure it's an error. I picked up a copy tonight. Bertrand.

I'm surprised no one has responded: 'I'm in there right now, browsing the organissimo forums with my laptop'. Bertrand.