bertrand

Stefan, Tell us more about Lord Dunsany - I believe Wayne Shorter is a huge fan of his. I'm not at all aware of his work. Bertrand.

Nothing at www.loc.gov or allmusic.com. Bertrand.

The Booker Little material alone is desert island stuff - check out Booker's arrangement of 'There's No You'. I also really dig the Parisian Sketches album. Since Verve will probably never get around to putting most of this out individually, I strongly recomend it. Bertrand.

'Love Lost' from this session is gorgeous - absolutely gorgeous. I agree that what makes the Brooks/McLean collaborations extra special is how they complement each other. This is what I was alluding to in the Jackie's Bag discussion elsewhere. Bertrand.

Kevin, How does Michael feel about this stuff circulating? Is he rather cool about it, or is it a sore point? Vincent, Good to see you back. I was worried about you. I hope you got the articles that I sent in August. Bertrand.

The Eddie Gale thing is a whole 'nother issue that, I think would warrant another thread. I'll just throw in a few thoughts, and we can see if we should start another thread. 1. I've had a burn of this session for a while, and now I have the CD (just arrived last night). I got it anyway because it's Larry Young. I recall really being put off by Gale's trumpet playing, so much that I swore to myself not to buy anything else he was on (including his BN dates). BUT... 2. One of the things that turned me off was that Gale did not seem to know the head to 'Seven Steps' and was just winging it. But AB Spellman's notes say that this band was together for two weeks (minus Spaulding) before they made the record, so it's not like they didn't have time to rehearse (whether this tune was part of the repertoire or not, I don't know). So could the perceived sloppiness of this session be in fact part of a grand design? I remember one of our board members once said that Herbert Morgan told him the Mother Ship date was a mess - no charts, no lead sheets, nothing. But Mother Ship (to me) sounds much more rehearsed. Could Morgan have been thinking of this date, not Mother Ship? Just some thoughts... Bertrand.

'Quiet Temple' is a Waldron tune also known under another name - perhaps 'All Alone' from the 1986 Waldron/McLean session. Bertrand.

Rooster, If you decide to do something on Tolliver and want to get in touch with him, I might be able to help. Send me a PM. Bertrand.

Larry, I know exactly what you mean about Woody's playing on 'Yearning For Love', and I completely agree. That passage really blows me away. Rooster, Here's all I know about what happened to Tyrone. Apparently he converted to Islam and became deeply religious - almost to the point of obsession. A musician friend of mine (who will remain nameless) told me that he showed up at Freddie Waits' funeral (1989?) and somehow disrupted the proceedings. My friend thought it was extremely upsetting. I don't know if you should mention this on the air, however, unless you can get some independent confirmation (perhaps from Downbeat). Based on the blindfold test you dug up, Tyrone had a deep knowledge of the music. His loss to the world of music is truly a shame. Bertrand. P.S. I recommend using his composition on Contrasts, 'Tender Feelings'.

That pig sure looks blissfully content. I'm surprised he's not smoking a 'fag'. Bertrand.

Pete, Thanks for getting back about the copy protection. I saw them at Borders' yesterday and saw that they were not listed as protected; I think the warning is a minor annoyance, and in fact it's smaller than on the previous batch of RVGs - no FBI logo. So I went ahead and ordered three from CDUniverse (the two you got plus the Larry Young). And my backlog keeps growing... Bertrand.

What are the bonus cuts? Bertrand.

I believe he died in a hand-glider crash many years ago. Bertrand.

Thanks! Eventually, I'm going to visit the site but I'm still just getting my feet wet ipod-wise. The tunes I would buy (for $.99 each - bargain!) would be 'Fun', 'Water On The Pond', 'Teo's Bag' (alt.) and the unedited 'Circle In The Round', as well as 'Falling Water' from the Miles/Gil box. Bertrand.

Madonna as Diana! Who would play Prince Charles? Bertrand.

I just saw on yahoo that Rodney Dangerfield passed away. I knew he was very ill. He really cracked me up. My favorite line (from Back To School): 'My wife, she gives good headache'. RIP Bertrand.

Since you have some of them - are they copy protected? Thanks, Bertrand.

Please report back ASAP about whether or not these are copy controlled (or have any other defects). Thanks, Bertrand.

Upping my question about the presence or absence of the Miles boxes on itunes. Thanks, Bertrand.

I assume 'Just Foolin' is really 'Just Coolin', right? Bertrand.

Kevin, I actually addressed the issue of authorship of 'Quick Trick' and 'Jimerick' in one of my postings above. I guess it got lost in my non-stop chatter! 'Quick Trick' is by Bobby Timmons. I found the lead sheet at the Library of Congress and it now is sitting in the 'Jazz Copyright Collection' which is slowly being catalogued (by me and others, using a database that was kindly created for this purpose). Even if the session does not come out, I hope one day to convince someone to perform this. I'm pretty sure it has never been recorded elsewhere. I should ask Don Sickler (who publishes Bobby's tunes) if he knows about this piece. 'Jimerick' is a total mystery - no copyright on this one. Based on the title, I suspect it's by Jymie Merritt (although he didn't write anything else for the band). He's still around (although hard to find). If I ever meet him, I'll ask him about it. Bertrand.

Absolutely. Some of the decisions have to be respected. And some have to be ignored. No, I am not actively involved in the music biz as you are, but as a supporter of the music I have the right to have my say. Plus, I have come in contact with some producers out there and listened to what they had to say, and quite frankly, I am underwhelmed by their actual knowledge or understanding of the art form. I certainly wouldn't trust their judgment on what is releasable or not, and I really don't think they even have a clear grasp of the marketability or lack thereof of the product they are pushing or not pushing. Which is irrelevant in the case of Alfred: he clearly had a profound, intuitive appreciation of the music and through his hard work and dedication left us with a wealth of wonderful recordings. But he was not infallible. Similarly, there are many fabulous artists on the label and they more than anyone could judge what they wanted to present to the world and what they did not, but sometimes they were just being too self-critical. Look, I'm not pushing this Blakey session. Despite Jim and Bill's assertion to the contrary, I may decide it's no good if I ever hear it. But I have enough respect for their opinion to know they are not just some mindless, drug-addled college students who think that every note that Mobley ever spewed out was golden. If they think there's something there, then my curiosity is piqued. Bertrand.

Alfred also decided to shelve Wayne Shorter's Etcetera, Jackie McLean's Jacknife, Lee Morgan's The Procrastinator, several Monk performances, several Herbie Nichols tunes, Art Blakey's Roots & Herbs, Grant Green's Solid etc. Are you arguing that at no point should anyone have revisited these decisions of Alfred's? As hinted at in the booklet to the Tina Brooks Mosaic, Alfred sometimes had to make these decisions very fast, and could not always justify them later. Is it really immoral to second guess him thirty years later? Can we really make a final, absolute descision on the quality of a work of art based on a brief exposure to the work? Clearly, Alfred had to make some decisions for purely business reasons (e.g. temporarily shelving Search For The New Land after The Sidewinder was a hit). Does this mean he though Search was not worthy of release? Of course not. Do you really decide after one listen if a record is good or not? I certainly hope not. My point is, no one has claimed that he or she 'deserves' to have this session. They are just wondering if the session might be worth a second listen (based on the opinion of independent observers) before it is relegated to the dustbin of time. Eventually, the tape will be disintegrated and then we missed our chance for good. Just my two cents, but what do I kow. I'm just a schmo who supports jazz musicians with a non-negligible fraction of my income. Bertrand.

Interesting comments so far. I wonder where this thread will go, and I'm sure glad it's not on the old BNBB! That doesn't mean someone in the business is not lurking, of course. Two thoughts come to my mind: 1. Michael Cuscuna has specifically stated that this session is a disaster. I'm surprised to see some of you who have heard all or parts of it think otherwise. Now you have me curious. The question is, how would you guys start lobbying Cuscuna? If you want to avoid disclosing that you've heard the session and just make a general suggestion, you will just get the usual reply that this is not releasable. Remember what happened when we were solicited on the old board for suggestions of unissued sessions for the 60th anniversary series (the series that yielded The Kicker, Drums Around The Corner etc.)? Some of Michael's opinions were brief but to the point. Alternatively, if you decide to 'fess up that you've heard this, how will he react? In any case, it's obvious that Cuscuna can and does change his mind, e.g. the released half of the October 1968 Lee Morgan session with Frank Mitchell, or (more to the point) Passing Ships, which was hailed as a masterpiece last year by a jazz press and a jazz audience starved for some innovative music, no matter how old (that's the topic for another thread). The question is, what would be the best (i.e. most diplomatic) approach to lobby Michael for this session? 2. If I read Chuck's posting correctly (and I aplogize in advance if I am misunderstanding the purpose of his post), I think he is suggesting that we should not always be clamoring for things that are unissued when sessions with similar material are readily available. But I must respectfully disagree in this case. First off, there are few documents of this brief incarnation of the Messengers (Mobley's return after Golson's departure and before Wayne's arrival). Apart from this session and the released live session, I only know of the 1959 Newport appearance which I listened to at the Library of Congress, and which is at least as good as the 2-CD set. Does anyone know any other sessions? I certainly don't think there any other studio dates. So that alone makes this worthy of consideration for release. More importantly, there are two tunes that have not been recorded elsewhere to my knowledge, either by Blakey or anyone else (unless someone with the Lord can prove me wrong). 'Quick Trick' is a Bobby Timmons piece - the copyright deposit lead sheet exists. I sure would like to hear it - hell, it could even be another 'hit'. 'Jimerick' remains a total mystery (there is no copyright). I'm guessing it's by Jymie Merritt based on the title, but that's pure speculation. So, I sure hope someone can find a way to convince Michael to re-think this session. I wonder if Merritt (the only survivor) has an opinion on the matter. He lives in Philly and is somewhat hard to track down, but if Leslie Gourse could do it, anyone can. Bertrand.

I'm not sure I understand the reference to 'Quadrangle' being a bonus track. Jackie previously recorded this tune on Lights Out as 'Inding'. 'Fidel' previously appeared as 'Couldn't It Be You' (credited to McLean and Blakey) on the Messengers RCA date A Night In Tunisia (AKA Theory Of Art), the one on which Jackie is listed as Ferris Bender. Not all three Brooks compositions were left off the original vinyl - 'Isle Of Java' was on it. McLean's 'Melonae's Dance' was missing, however. 'Medina' is the same composition as 'Minor Move'. The BN discography claims that there were two further rejected (and untitled) tracks for the first session. Perhaps these would have been enough to make up an entire album. The second session (which I have read was originally planned to be billed as co-led by Brooks and McLean) was actually enough to make up its own LP. So if those two performances from the first session had been successful, we probably would have seen two separate albums released at the time. As for the music, I find the sextet session to be one of Jackie's absolute masterpieces. The arrangements are fabulous - they really make great use of the presence of the three horns (listen to the head of 'Medina' or the entire 'Ballad For Doll' to see what I mean). This one is so good, I'm thinking of getting the RVG (even though I have the older version) just to see if I can hear anything new. Bertrand.