Morganized

Someone needs to pick this one up at that price if you don't have it. Charles Mingus - Let My Children Hear Music $4 Some of Mingus' best work IMHO

A great session at a steal!! Congrats.

DS, Chuck can can be a crusty MF sometimes, That's just his charm. but know that he loves the music and has devoted much of his life to making available music that might not have otherwise seen the light of day. Believe us on that one. Chuck knows his sh... Just consider it indoctrination. Boot camp so to speak. If you stick around you will come to respect Chuck's viewpoints.......may not always agree; but you will respect what he has to say about the music. DS, you seem like a good guy and I hope you stick around. You will find there are many other members that are quite knowledgeable about the music as well (On a relative scale I don't claim to be one of them). Glad to have you and welcome. Will keep a look out for a good used copy of Medina and SOTT. They are definitely worth hearing.

Glad to see so much respect for Harold in the Land of Jazz. IMHO it is slightly better than the Fox which is the one most people cite when referencing Harold Land. He is such a great player.

I would come out on the other side of that issue. I guess I am a traditionalist on that kind of stuff.

I still don't think she will like it. If my parents had told me when I was 13, "in addition to the albums you have, you should give a listen to this great rock band we've read about"--I would have immediately put that rock band, whoever it was, in the lame category, and would have filed it in the "never play" pile. I would have literally never removed the shrinkwrap from the LP cover. Your heart is in the right place, but as JSngry said, if you suddenly showed a great liking for all of the pop music that your daughter is listening to, she would immediately dislike it, and think it must be highly suspect. What I do is ask for a Christmas list, buy the CDs on it without comment, no matter how ridiculous I think they are, and keep my mouth shut. I hope that the truly great music wafting through the house sinks in on some sublimal level. That's all you can hope for, in my opinion. I have about 10 years on you and I can tell you that it is a losing cause. No jazz for my daughter UNTIL she gets to college and takes interest in a young man that digs Brubeck.....(not my favorite but the young man has potential!) I get a call from her and she laughingly tells me how funny it would be if she finally starts liking jazz...Yea,,I'm breaking up ( sic) My advice if you deem this a critical mission......Find some hot looking 13 year old. Convince him($$$$) he likes jazz as well. Let him show your daughter just a little interest (not too much, this is a family board) and watch how interested she gets in jazz!!All of a sudden she will be using you as a reference.....Warning. when it is over she will convert back to some other type of music so be prepared! Good luck!!! Hope you know the advice is tongue in cheek.....the part about my daughter is true........there is hope......give it time.

actually that looks like the core of the case the me; read the brief, the part about the unauthorised copies is on p. 15. Agreed....Looks like the article is misleading.

What a Country!!

That's what the PR/Marketing Firm/Record Company is for. Agreed!

Impossible What I meant to imply is that the distribution goes computer to computer vs. the old model from production to wholesaler to retailer.....Now it may go from artist to student to another student to brother to friend etc. etc. Or from producer to consumer directly, no middleman of any kind. A very fractured form of distribution and difficult to capture profits at any particular level. Apple and others have done a good job of trying but I doubt it will hold forever. Customers are already demanding changes. Thus the need for the performer to make his/her living through live performing. Like in the days of 78's when something much less than a full performance could be captured on record, the recording was often used to generate interest in the performer. A marketing tool so to speak. Performers played at colleges, local gyms, bars, wherever. Later the trend was reversed, at least for the bigger acts who made their living through the sale of records. In that case the performance became the marketing tool. Get out there on the road to sell the record! Locally I have noticed an increase of smaller venues for traveling bands that cannot fill the large auditoriums or stadiums. You see some new 3-5000 seat venues. Old movie theaters redone that offer 1000 seats or less. Some of the larger bars/nightclubs may have a traveling act in a venue that can accomodate 250-300. And yes, there is a small selection of bars/restaurants that continue to offer some space to the local performers playing to crowds of 25- 100. It seems to me that there has been an increase in the intermediate size venue and even more are in the planning stage. You may see a rebirth in the regional circuits where more promoters/PR firms/Marketing firms have some live acts that he/they book into appropriate venues throughout a particular part of the country. The new "chittlin" circuit. As more musicians make a living through performing, more venues will be needed. Live music could be the beneficiary of the decline in the record companies. Live performances could generate a new interest in music. The glass may be half full instead of half empty. Stay optimistic. There are not many traveling jazz acts that can command the large venues and thus ,they may in fact, be less inclined to feel the changes.

Again, its for better or for worse, but the majors choose acts to promote, and use their power of promotion to make the music lover aware of them, particularly through articles in magazines like DB that are barely disguised promo pieces. I'm not at all sure how, outside of the home bases of these artists, people will come to be aware of these musicians that are acting as completely independent agents. Maybe one answer will be artists "seeding" (in a different sense than its currently used) bit-torrent sites with live recordings as a way to get themselves heard and direct those people who do want to pay for music to their site for more. Are you referring to embracing CDs or embracing downloads? CDs. "The industry" now pretty much has no choice left but to serve as a promotional agency now, since the necessity of their participation in the creation and dissemenation of actual music grows less every day. Anyboy with a will and a way (or even a nickel and a nail) can find a cheap digital recording situation and put the results online. You don't need a label for that anymore. But what you still do need is promotion of a majorly coordinated and networked type, and this is something that the industry still has (at least int heory. Maybe they've totally cannabilised themselves by now...). A label can still do better than an individual entity in gettign airplay, creating promotional tools/materials that "work", providing tour support/coordination, etcetcetc. And that's what I think the industry is going to shift its focus to, rahter than keep trying to find a new way to sustain the "create & sell product" paradigm. Of course, the changeover will probably never be complete, nor do I suspect that it will be particularly sudden. But if I were a betting man (well, ok I am a betting man...) and if I was a young & hungry talent ready to roll into Wider Public Awareness (definitely not that...), I would be working like hell at finding somebody at some label to take me on, not as a "Recording Artist" but as a "Distribution/Promotion Client". And since I am a betting man, here's fittysint saying that we'll see this sooner than later. Appears that there is agreement that the old business model of "production, marketing and distribution" is over. Because of changes in technology, production has become much cheaper and likewise less centralized;distribution has become in large part ubiquitious; and the only part left is the marketing and public relations. That is why the gurus at the music companies are shaking in their boots. There are some great PR and marketing firms out there and suddenly they can get in the "music" business. Major competion awaits the old line music companies. For the artist the path is less clear. They have to find representation to "market" their product. I believe that we are seeing a step back to the beginning of the music business where recorded music is simply used as a tool to market the performer with no one is looking to it as the chief revenue source. In other words, orginally it was the record to promote the "on the road" band Then it became, the "on the road band" to promote the record. We are going back to the future so to speak.The money for the performer will come from llive performances, concerts, dances, etc. We will probably see a step back to the traveling bands, city to city doing gigs....on the road a lot....I think you will begin to see an increase in smaller venue's, including clubs, because the performers will no longer be able to depend on much revenue from record sales. As for jazz, probably less will change. Many parts of the jazz business have been this way for some time. Someone mentioned Madonna and her new deal. If nothing else, she has been the shrewdest of marketers. I think she is once again leading the way and the music business would be smart to pay attention.

Naive I think in large measure this has already been accomplsihed. Surely you do not suggest that the ruling class are stupid enough to spell it out for you directly! You really will not have to live so very long. A normal lifespan should do it. If its already been accomplished in large measure, please spell out how. Please identify the people who are being prevented from becoming rich. Please explain how the super-rich are preventing the merely well-off from becoming affluent. Then I will point to Google's IPO, the number of extremely wealthy people it created, and say that you are the stupid one. Exactly - thank you for clarifiying the position of myself and others. Yes, and some folks win the lottery.....but surely you do not suggest that the lottery's benefits are necessarily distributed equitably. The obvious difference being that the lottery is voluntary while we are all stuck with the "system".. which, by the way, appears more and more to be intractable...regardless of the Party in power. Just look to the recent income and wealth distributions in this country. That doesn't happen by accident.

Naive I think in large measure this has already been accomplsihed. Surely you do not suggest that the ruling class are stupid enough to spell it out for you directly! You really will not have to live so very long. A normal lifespan should do it.

Do not put words into my mouth. The point is that the tax burden on the affluent in this country is far less than it is in most first world countries, so talk of it being confiscatory is greatly exaggerated. Enormous? Have you considered that Social Security taxes are levied on only the first $97,500 of wages, serving to significantly DECREASE the effective tax rate of high-salaried individuals versus low and middle income workers? Have you considered that long-term capital gains and qualified dividends are taxed at only 15% and that the advantages of this low rate inures largely to the benefit of the wealthy, who, unlike the lower and middle class who must consume a far greater percentage of their income on necessities, can afford to invest a greater portion of their income? Do you realize that, because of these factors, Warren Buffett pays income taxes at a lower marginal rate than his secretary, who earns about $60,000 per year. And, AGAIN, as I stated earlier, since a decedent's appreciated assets receive a "step-up" in basis to fair market value at the decedent's passing, it is incorrect for anyone to claim that the estate tax taxes money/assets that have already been taxed. Many unrealized capital gains are never subjected to income tax because of this step-up in basis, and, indeed, are never taxed at all because the asset is not subject to estate taxes because of the unified credit. How exactly are these taxes confiscatory considering the rather large amount sheltered by the uniformed credit and other basic tax planning techniques such as utilizing the annual gift tax exclusion? As I stated in my prior post, the Congressional Research Service calculated that, in 1999, when the top marginal estate tax rate was over 50% and the unified credit was much lower than it is now, the average "effective rate" (i.e., the estate tax burden as a percentage of estate value after expenses) was 12.4%. In the 1920s, the last time the richest one percent of the population owned over 40 percent of all private wealth, Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis warned, "[w]e can have a democratic society, or we can have great concentrated wealth in the hands of a few. But we cannot have both." Since the birth of this country, other notable Americans aside from Justice Brandeis have provided strong reasons for disagreeing with your view on this issue: Mt. Rushmore and a History of the Estate Tax I did not get this idea from Krugman or Edwards; it came to my attention during a law school course is federal estate and gift taxation over 10 years ago. I find it difficult to believe that you cannot understand how the repeal of the estate tax would help contribute to the creation of a plutocracy. It is easier to make money if you already have money, or do you disagree??? If I am a millionaire and I am allowed to leave my entire estate to my son untaxed (because of repeal of the estate tax), he can much more readily attain the status of "super-wealthy" than if the size of his bequest were necessarily reduced by estate tax considerations. It is easier for a millionaire to become a billionaire than for someone from a much more meager background to do so. Allow this to continue unfettered for a few generations and let's see where we are. Money is power, and I don't know why you would think that, if there were a plutocracy, a relatively few monied families would want to share that power with any newcomer. Where are all these people with big ideas supposed to find the capital for their ventures? No, Dan, I stated that estate planning and charitable contributions can be used to avoid paying any taxes to the government. Not paying taxes to the government is NOT the same thing as being allowed to leave your estate to whomever you want without tax consequences. Moreover, you appear to have missed the second part of my sentence, "and charitable bequests". The increase in the unified credit has been accompanied by a decrease in charitable giving, and it only stands to reason that these contributions would decrease even more significantly if the estate tax were abolished. In summation, don't you think that there are far more important issues to this country than giving tax cuts to the richest 1% - 2%? Considering how greatly the last three "conservative" presidents have run up the national debt, forgive me for not being swayed by your "conservative" arguments. Game....Set.....Match...... Now what do you guys think about the new Mosaic sets coming out???

Always two sides to the story! On this we can all agree. wackorolleyesganized. I thought I presented BOTH sides here but was not so succinct I gather. Our wonderfully slow postal service took do time with the package and surprise I was hit with a refund. Thing is that he left feedbback about how great whatever it was was plenty of time before the dispute closed and I had to pull him into the debate with PayPal so he could then vouch for me. He made out the best with the product AND the money he paid for it. MWGA, I think you misinterpreted my post. I was acknowledging your post as "the other side of the story" in response to my post. I was not suggesting that there was another side to your unfortunate experience. Both Sellers and Buyers have EBAY horror stories.

Always two sides to the story! On this we can all agree.

Interesting observation. I have begun the Paypal dispute process. It is tedious to some degree but in my case it did bear results. I received the item, albeit, after a considerable length of time and with more effort than should have been necessary. In my case it did not get to the point where the Seller contested the disputed matter because my complaint was for non shipment. Seller, I think, just did not like the price he/she received. Hoped I would just go away. The matter settled before EBAY was forced to rule. It has been my experience that EBAY is very protective of its Sellers. It is tilted IMHO in favor of the people most in control of the situation. Buyer is relying upon the Seller's description of the product and competence to ship timely. If Buyer returns items it should be noted only. Sellers would then know which Buyers to be concerned about. No Seller should be allowed to zing a Buyer for following the dispute process. More importantly, damages should not be limited to the purchase price but, instead, should be the replacement price. That would ensure that Sellers take the time to make sure advertised items are actually available and in the condition advertised.IMHO

Great, great loss. Marchel Ivery's Death Marks "A Sad Day for Dallas" Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 04:40:57 PM UNT Division of Jazz Studies Last night, local sax great Shelley Carrol was told he would need to fill in tonight for Marchel Ivery, who was scheduled to play Terilli's on Greenville Avenue for the second time this month. Carrol was told only that Ivery was ill: He'd been checked into Presbyterian Hospital for pneumonia, a rather sudden development. Carrol thought nothing of it: He and Ivery often swapped gigs, almost as often as they performed with each other. Indeed, Carrol and Ivery just finished recording an album together, an homage to the great Texas tenors -- that fat, wide-open sound pioneered by the likes of Illinois Jacquet, Arnett Cobb, James Clay and David "Fathead" Newman. Carrol and Ivery were old pals, introduced years ago by pianist Roger Boykin at the Green Parrot, where Ivery was playing with Clay. They were also labelmates on Mark Elliott's late, lamented Leaning House. Then, early this afternoon, Carrol -- like every other jazz musician around town -- got the phone call: Marchel Ivery, at age 69, died around 5:30 this morning. And just like that, one of Dallas' most beloved and influential musicians -- not to mention one of its most famous, if only outside the city limits -- was gone. "And, man, he was a really great guy -- he was inspiring," Carroll tells Unfair Park today. "He never said a negative word. He'd go around the way to teach you rather than scold you. I loved him. He was a sweetheart. He's gonna be missed. It's a sad day in Dallas." The earliest recordings of Ivery were recently released: from the South Dallas Pop Festival in 1970. He did not record under his own name until 1994, when he released Marchel's Mode on Leaning House; also on the album was Dallas-born piano great Cedar Walton, who had performed on John Coltrane's original recordings for Giant Steps, among the most influential albums ever made. Walton and Ivery met in Dallas in 1966, at the Arandas Club, a legendary haunt. Years later, Walton would tell Marchel's Mode liner-note writer Doug Ramsey, "Marchel is a great exponent of the tenor sound that includes Sonny Rollins and Joe Henderson, and he is a delight to play with. He's at a state where he deserves to be heard nationally and internationally." Ivery was born in Ennis on September 13, 1938, and though he'd gain international renown as a sax player, he originally played trumpet -- when he was all of 12. As Ramsey noted, Ivery switched to sax after hearing Charlie Parker on the radio. After graduating George Washington Carver High School, he went into the Army, and as Dave Oliphant notes in his invaluable 1996 book Texas Jazz, Ivery was stationed in Europe in the late 1950s -- and it was there he began performing with no less a legend than Bud Powell at Cheque Peche. By the mid-1960s, he was playing with another Dallas-born great: pianist Red Garland -- "whom he joined in June of 1983 in New York for Red's last job," Oliphant wrote. Eight years ago, I spoke with Ivery about his friendship with Garland -- and the role he played in shaping Ivery's career. This is what he said, in part: "I was always in awe of him," Ivery says. "Whenever we were on the bandstand, it was an experience I can't explain. It's something I will cherish forever. I wish he was here today. I talked to Red every day. He would call me, and we would talk an hour, two hours. Then, when we'd get off the phone, he'd say, 'You coming over?' I'd sit over there till one in the morning, and we'd talk, talk, talk. I wish I had a tape recorder. We talked about Dizzy, Max, Charlie Parker. He said that when he played with Charlie, he didn't want to solo after him, he was so good. I asked him if he recorded with Parker, and he said yeah, but he didn't know what happened to the recording. The record they did together, Live at Storyville, came out a year after Red passed. He passed without even knowing about it." Ivery released two more albums on Leaning House: Marchel Ivery Meets Joey DeFrancesco in 1997 and, two years later, 3. He also recorded with David Newman in 1990. All are essential recordings. As Elliott notes in the liner notes for Marchel's Mode, "It is rare for a recording with musicians of this quality to take place outside of New York or Los Angeles, and rare for players outside those circles to get recognition commensurate with their talents. I hope this effort will bend those conventions." Ten years ago, Texas Monthly's John Morthland wrote: "Its not so much that 57-year-old Ivery has slipped through the cracks as that he has conducted his entire career between them." Elliott has graciously allowed us to include a track from that album below: a stunning rendition of the Cole Porter standard, "Every Time We Say Goodbye." Shelley Carrol has spent the better part of the afternoon phoning jazzers with whom Ivery played -- among them, Wynton Marsalis, who would jam with Ivery at Sandaga Market on Levee Street whenever he came to town. They were there last December and only last month. And in January they performed together at a tribute to Texas tenors at the Trinity Jazz Festival -- some extraordinary photos are available here from the event. But tonight, Carrol says, he will play "what Marchel would have played" when he takes the stage at Terilli's. No doubt there will be memorial concerts to come; his will be a loss deeply felt, by the players who admired him and the fans who adored him. "He plays here almost every week," says Terillli's manager, Joey Terilli. "Has since I was 24, and I'm 38. I always call him 'Marchel My Bell,' and I can't do it no more. It's a crushing thing to me and to the music industry. I don't ever cry, but this, it brought a tear to my eye." --Robert Wilonsky And here............... Marchel Ivery

Jackie's Bag. Pretty sure it doesn't have Mogie on it, but it's my favorite of Jackie McLean's albums of that time.

Thanks Big Al for what has turned out to be one of the best threads we have had around here in a while, IMHO. The responses have been pointed but respectful. Glad to see so many folks coming to Morgan's defense. All of the comments are causing me to reach for this one again. I have the RVG version I believe. Not sure if that is the "best" remastering job. Anyway, great discussion.

Well it certainly isn't "boring" to me. I am, well, "biased" but there is little that Lee did that I do not like. Leeway is probably not my favorite( That would probably be SFNL) but it is not boring. Give it some time Big Al....and like a lot of Lee, put it in context. Regardless of where the music was heading Lee was at the forefront IMHO.

Both of those Dexter discs are worth having. Especially the Black Lion.....some of Dexter's best work IMHO.

This is the way I feel about the West Coast Series. It seems by the time folks got tuned in to the series it was already OOP. If they would keep some of these series in print a little longer I think they would become better sellers. Sometimes it takes a little while for word to spread. Finally picked up all the West Coast Series and they are a very fine group of performances.

I agree completely. Does anyone here have all 4 versions of the CD. When the RVG came out I tried to do a modified A/B test at a shop I frequent. Same type of players, headphones etc. Compared the "enhanced" version (The Ultimate) with the new RVG. Both sounded very good and it IS a great session but I decided the Ultimate version had a more natural, balanced sound and settled on that one. The RVG was a bit brighter and some would argue clear, but it did not simulate the sound of a live performance as well as the Ultimate version IMHO. To me, the RVG was not as balanced in parts and not as lifelike. Just my opinion. The differences are subtle of course. Let us know which one you decide upon.

ding! granted, you probably want a serious dude as discographer (or air traffic controller or brain surgeon) but Fitzy-- he loved it when we called him "Fitzy"-- wasn't noted for his broad sense of humours. as for other quietus, quietude, quiet-o-rama wife swapping ssssSSSSSHHH!! etc: for a mostly teh jass board we done said most of what's interesting which doesn't mean we done it all or can't go deeper but ... it's a relatively limited field & not so compelling to some of The Titans. at the same time, we don't wanna trample teh jass enthusiasm of others, except maybe when kids is wrong, or ig'nant, otherwise... they gotta learn thing on their own & since this ain't a paid gig anymore... also, take as an example to the reductio ad absurdum of that thread on 45 rpm gatefold Blue Notes lps-- hey, why not go all the way & make 'em 78s?, w/folio albums festooned a la Woolf? might be cool, might be ridiculous it's easy to see why some folks' attentions would drift elsewhere, to edc, his like and unlike (i'll strart a Fud Livingston thread in artists soon, promise) Rightly or wrongly; for better or for worse; yada yada.....this appears to have become a common sentiment around these parts. I have noticed on occcasion that a relatively new poster will bring up a topic to discuss and will be hit by the third response with something like, " Use the search option...link link link....... or a little more gentle version..." I think this has been discussed....here, here, and here... It is almost like no one even wants to discuss jazz anymore....I appreciate that many of the topics here can become repetitive at times, but....geez..... There is some remarkable expertise around here and I for one really enjoy the input from the TITANS as they are described above. Many of the names who have contributed to THIS thread have been around a long, long time. I hope those who are bored and think that they have nothing left to say will return and contribute again. It seems to me, however, if we continue to run off the new guys and the old guys get bored and leave, it won't be long before the Big "o" dies a slow death. That is not something that many of us would want, I think. Maybe we need to invite the guys at Blue Note back. As long as people could hurl insults in their direction there was never a lack of interest! (sarcasm intended) .... just my 2 cents.....