Morganized

Only if you believe "W" ! Welcome

Finally someone is beginning to ask the relevant questions. To begin with, Is anyone here really certain who owns these companies? Could it be possibe, the "legits" and the " non legits" are actually owned in whole or in part by the very same folks? I am sure that is something they may not desire to reveal, but is anyone on this Board privy to the vast corporate ownership of all of these various entities. Most of these huge international corporations have so many various corporate subsidiaries and sister corporations it would take a forensic accountant to trace where all the nickels go. Has anyone tried to trace the nickels? It probably would remind you of a giant pachinko machine!. Don't mean to be cynical here but I sure don't know who owns these corporations. I think there are folks here that are presuming some things that may not be true. And about the 50(Eur) vs. 70(US) year copyright law that seems to trouble so many here. Since in the majority of cases the artist is dead by the time the material goes into the public domain, are we not really arguing about whether the public gets the continued benefit of his/her art......vs. some corporation, and to a much lesser degree, his/her heirs. Part of that discussion should include your views on the social relevance of an Estate Tax and should any society allow wealth( of any nature) to be continually passed from one generation to the next or should society expect its citizens/heirs to go out and create their own art and their own wealth. Just a question. I raise these issues because they would appear to be germaine to any discussion regarding the posted topic. These companies are villified on a regular basis on this Board, but does anyone really have all the facts? Do we even know who owns them? If it should turn out that at least some of the legits and non legits have some type of common ownership then I ask you, who is the real villan then? If you owned one company that had to pay royalties and another that did not....well....???? Be careful what you presume. Until all the facts are determined I think I will just be thankful someone is keeping this great music alive !!

I avoided Stan for a long time thinking that his bossa stuff was pretty much all there was...Well a friend of mine pointed out my mistake and told me to get 'early' Stan or 'late' Stan.....how right he was.. Stan is the man....there is a lot to enjoy there.

This is probably a stupid question but what is the difference? I am sure that there is one but since I have not been bitten by the Mosaic collector bug I am not aware of the distinction. Are they both released by Mosiac? Thanks in advance

The operative word there being "girlfriend".

Had this one on hold and decided to pull the trigger based upon your recomendation. Put "Modern Jazz Symposium" on hold as well! Thanks!

Hello Tom, I'm in your camp on this one. I picked this one up when I was just beginning to get into jazz in a really big way. Immediately loaded up on all the J.J. I could find. I think this is one of his very best! IMHO

I agree with Al.

I can answer that one. Felser is absolutely right and should be commended for including that info. in the posting.... ..................The sound is TERRIBLE !!!!.................. Sounds like it was recorded on one of those old cassette players that would both record and play......hidden in a briefcase.

Interesting comments all and while I have just recently refused to slide into that East Coast vs. West Coast trap with other board members, I was struck by comments made by Bud Shank in the liner notes he wrote for his Live at the Haig release on Candid. There he said: ".....During that time, 1951 to 1956 she ( The Haig ) was the maternal godparent of the Gerry Mulligan Quartet, Chet Baker Quartet, Laurindo Almida Quartet, Shorty Rogers Quintet and the Bud Shank Quartet. All were born there. Many others played there, among them were Lee Konitz, Shelly Manne, Bob Brookmeyer, Hampton Hawes, Jimmy Giuffre, Jim Hall, Teddy Edwards, Stan Getz, Red Norvo, "Sweets" Edison and Erroll Garner. ....................Many of those named above were musicians directly or indirectly connected with a period which our writer/historian friends refer to as "West Coast Jazz". Most certainly the music of Los Angeles of the early "50's was much softer, possibly a little more sophisticated, than the music of New York of the same period (with the exception of Miles Davis's "Birth of the Cool" album). It seems to have skipped back over a generation (be- bop) to the rhythmic feeling of the late '30's ( Count Basie, Lester Young, The Kansas City Seven ) ....added another dimension melodically and harmonically, added a bit of humor..and the Eastern critics called it " West Coast Jazz." Some of it was good-some of it was cutesy nonsense.....By 1956, .....we were starting to get away from that soft sophistication. Not me. I'm still doing early 1950's plus a heavy dose of Lee Konitz ( a New Yorker who made a big impression on Paul Desmond, Art Pepper and obviously, me)....Things were starting to change. By the end of the '50's be-bop had again become the dominant force among most West Coasters and Bossa Nova was just around the corner." I hope you find these comments as interesting as I did. Just Bud Shank's opinion but at least he was there! Seems to me that all of the quoted comments are correct. That East Coast vs. West Coast thing is a can of worms!

up with edits

I spotted these at a local shop: Bob Brookmeyer/Bill Evans.......................The Ivory Hunters (dom.) Sonny Red...............................................Out of the Blue (Conn.) Freddie Redd............................................Shades of Red (Conn.) Ike Quebec..............................................Easy Living (Collector's Choice) I am looking for jewel case(not mini-lp) versions of: Jutta Hippa................................................Live at the Hickory House Vol 1 Curtis Fuller...............................................Vol. 3 Hank Mobley..............................................Hank Mobley Quartet Hank Mobley..............................................Hank Mobley Sextet Hank Mobley..............................................Hank Hank Mobley..............................................Hank Mobley Hank Mobley..............................................Curtin Call Could there be a trade out there? Shoot me a pm if interested.

PM sent on: Lady In Autumn: The Best Of The Verve Years (2 CD) - Billie Holiday $8.00 Together! - Jimmy Raney & Sonny Clark $5.50

ditto ditto again It's called "bait and switch" and it is illegal in virtually every state. Regrettably, it is showing up on even the most legitimate online sites. The next Elliot Spitzer is going to have a field day with these guys one of these days!

PM sent on Billie Holiday "Songs for Distingue Lovers" Verve Spanish $3

Pm sent on the Ted Brown/jimmy Raney...Criss Cross. Question on the Gryce/Byrd Jazz Lab.

I don't think Al Haig belongs in your list . If the rubric " West Coast Jazz " is geography-based then Haig is excluded , as most of his recording was done on the east coast . If it is style-based , then what are Land , Edwards and Criss doing in a list with Montrose , Perkins and Shank ? I agree. As many of the "West Coast" players would agree, I don't think it is easily defined and most would shed the label. I think many were associated to the "West Coast" by the company they kept, so to speak. I am certainly not going to get into an argument about what is West Coast and what is not and whether it is better than East Coast jazz or not. That has been hashed and re-hashed for 50+ years without success. Some of it has to do with where they were recorded. I was just trying to point out that there are a host of players often associated with the west coast. Who would be included on your list?

Yes, indeed, count me as a big fan of this music. Much like you, for years I had a musical blind spot for this stuff. Then all of a sudden (around '99 or 2000) I really started to dig it. It's not "flashy" music, but it does swing. Now I'll get almost anything by Mulligan. Same thing happened to me about 3-4 years ago. I have made the comment that Blue Note pulls their stuff way too fast. That West Coast Series that they did a number of years ago was really great but it took a long time for folks to appreciate these guys. It is a little different and the West Coast stuff may be less emotionally compeling at first but after careful listening it is super appealing in it own way. It is very intricate and a lot of the emotion of the music is found in the intricate arrangements and the way the players play off of each other. Just my opinion. Sounds like you are at the beginning of a very interesting trip. Soon you will pick up Brookmeyer and learn that Mulligan was getting some of his arranging technique from Brookmeyer. Then you will find that Brookmeyer had learned well from Giuffre, etc. etc. .....There are so many great West Coast players. Some have been mentioned here already but don't forget lou levy, jimmy rowles, al haig, harold land, teddy edwards, sonny criss, hampton hawes, curtis counce, lennie niehaus, herb geller, bill perkins, bud shank, jack montrose, etc. etc. and of course, the big names, stan getz, chet baker, and art pepper. The more you listen to these players the more you will appreciate the West Coast players IMHO. I had the same intial feelings about Chet that you have expressed. Now I own a whole lot of his stuff and find it unbelievable. To me Chet is a lot like Sinatra in that he is not the greatest player by a long shot but d..mn can he get to the essence of a tune. He can deliver a tune like no one else. His playing has a purity that I find quite moving now. Have fun and enjoy!

For some reason I was having similar thoughts a couple of nights ago while listening to some earlier Miles. Decided that the "British Invasion" must have been very hard on Miles. I mean Miles had been the cultural definition of "cool" in the early 60"s with the Columbia publicity machine and all of a sudden there was a new paradigm. I would think that is very hard on the ego and I think Chuck has it nailed. Miles wanted to regain his stature and status as the icon of cool. Regardless of what you think about his later work you can't say that he was not trying to find the magic. Unfortunately the magic he was looking for included the fame, the recognition, the music, essentially everything. In this regard he may have lost a bit of focus. Still, I feel humbled by his talent and his spirit. He showed up, he brought his stuff and he gave his best effort. We can't ask for any more than that.

Woa, that had me confused for a minute. Nippon Soul and Dizzy's Business are two of my favorite Cannonball dates. Excellent IMHO......Guess I am not familiar with the recent Capital release.

Thanks. I've been there but wasn't that impressed. I think Nice Books & Records is better, especially for vinyl. They have stores in Carrboro, Durham & Raleigh. Also CD Alley in Carrboro/Chapel Hill is the one I'm about to check. Have you been there? Do they sell any vinyl? If you go to Nice Price Books be sure to say hello to Boardmember sjarrell.....Sandy is a regular contributor and a nice guy. He could probably help you out concerning the local jazz scene. Regards,

Or maybe he died!!! It happens you know. Let's try to help Dimitry reach the guy before we jump to conclusions. If he is a deadbeat, scum we will know soon enough and then..........well, let the vitriol begin!!!

Welcome Scott. Glad you are here.

PM sent on the McLean

Yes T.D. The Hawes date is excellent. I do not know if I would pay ebay prices, either, but it is a very good session.