Rooster_Ties

Steering this back on the "Race" topic (not that a little detour is a bad thing), but speaking of college - I was just thinking about my college days (from '87-'91 --- plus a couple extra years in the same college environment (until '93), getting another B.A. degree). Even back then, I had some interests in bridging that racial divide -- even before I ever knew anything about jazz, or before I had even heard "Kind of Blue" (which I don't think I heard until about 1989). Back then, Rap music was becoming more popular in certain circles, and I remember taking a bit of a liking to "Public Enemy". And I got on a big "Spike Lee" kick too, seeing as many of his movies as I could. And I discovered some great early-70's soundtracks, like "Superfly" and Herbie's "Death Wish" soundtrack. And I remember being at quite a few school events that drew heavily on the Black student population (which numbered 50-75 students at most, out of 1,000 total - at a small liberal arts college in upstate Illinois (Knox College)). And I even remember once (maybe twice) being inside the 'theme' student housing (literally a house) that was primarily occupied by Black students (why I was there, I now have no idea). And yet, in all that time - 4 years as a full-time student, 2 years as a half-time student, and 1 year just hangin' around the college (while I worked, that first year after the 2nd degree), I am struggling now to remember any acquaintanceships between myself and any African-American students. Well actually, I can kinda remember one or two, maybe, at most - with people who were in the college choir with me. But you’d think, in all that time, I would have struck up at least a couple friendships with some other Black students. (But somehow I didn't.) I think part of it had to do with the fact that most of the Black students often socialized with each other, and their parties and other activities were mostly 'monochromatic'. Probably not too uncommon (even today). The campus environment (at Knox) at that time was approximately 87% white, 8% International students, and 5% Black. Anyone here care to recollect their college experiences, relative to Race??

I too am totally at a loss for words.... Other than ROTF!!!

If I won the lottery, I'd be cherry-picking all the classes I would want to take, and probably not even worry too much about working towards a specific degree. (That is, if the university would let me do that.) There are so many interests that I have now, that I didn't have 15 years ago. And my priorities were quite a bit different back then too, not that I was a "party animal", but I wasn't the most focussed student ever, either. Oh to be young again.

Ideally, I would agree with you Jad, but we all know in this day and age, that there aren't nearly enough performance opportunities for musicians. Look at Organissimo - within 75 miles of where they live, it sounds like they're lucky to get 3 gigs a month, and more like 2 possibly. I think the question of whether learning jazz in an academic environment must recognise the realities of the world as it exists, and not how it might ideally be. Sure, learning on the bandstand back in the 40's, 50's, and early 60's would deffinitely be prefered as at least a strong component of any jazz "education". But absent that (and the opportunities for that), I guess the question is whether the 'academic' route is valuable, vs. what are the current options for going a non-'academic' route. Food for thought, hopefully.

What a fascinating question, both the 'jazz education' angle, which I suspect will get adressed more in this thread. But also the other question, about whether "hip hop turntablism" ought to be taught at the school (by which I presume we're talking about 'scratching'). I'll give some thought to both questions, and post them here later.... ....but I'd be especially curious to see what people here think of "turntablism" possibly being taught in music schools. I know there are plenty of people in the mainstream world, or even the mainstream music world --- who would recoil in horror at the thought of such an instrument be elevated to that of more trtaditional intruments. BUT, surely there is a whole world of music out there that uses "scratching" as a very frequent and important component, and that world is influencing jazz and various syntheses of world music, even as we speak (and probably has been for at least a decade).

I never took any history courses back in college, and now I really wish I had. Back then, they seemed like so much more work than whatever other classes I managed to find to complete the requirements outside of my major (which was computer science, and then later music - I have two B.A.'s) Now (at the age of nearly 35), I'd be up for so many history courses, and even maybe a Constitutional Law class, or some 'crazy' things like that - topics I would have never touched with a ten-foot poll back in my late teens and early 20's. Oh to win the lottery, and be able to go back to school full time...

United Artists actually. My copy is on Blue Note, CDP 7 46393. Money Jungle on Blue Note here. 63/32 See the fine print on the back, or at least on the back of my "CDP 7 46398 2" released on CD circa 1987. It says... "Originally issued on United Artists UAS 15017, UAS 5632 and Solid State SS 18022". It was originally produced by Alan Douglas (a dead give-away), and also that it was recorded at Sound Makers, NYC.

Sorry for diverting the thread for a moment, but Rooster Ties was actually right about this. Duke Ellington did not record for Blue Note. I was thinking the same thing (about Duke and BN), but I was wronger-than-wrong about Miles (what the hell was I thinking!! ), so I figured I'd just gloss over the whole Ellington thing, hoping it'd all get lost in the longest thread we've ever had around here.

Geez, almost 300 posts in this thread, but even more amazingly, nearly 5,000 views!!!!

New record again today... Most users ever online was 44 on May 20 2003, 01:09 PM

Although I voted for "Mother Ship", I was listening to Hill's "Lift Every Voice" again last night, and I keep finding new things to like in Lee's playing on this date. I guess it goes without saying that I wish Lee had recorded in more "progressive" contexts - but then again, given his short life - I should probably be thankful that he did play on as many progressive dates as he did. Still, I'm beginning to think more and more, that Andrew Hill (especially) brought out a side of Lee Morgan that no one else could. A side that was both bold, and introspective, and restrained, and harmonically rich - all at the same time. I hear this more on "Lift Ever Voice" than on "Grass Roots", but there's still an aspect of this for me on "Grass Roots" too. I even hear it on the Hill/Morgan dates from Hank Mobley's "No Room For Squares". (I mentioned this in another thread, but I never got that date ("No Room For Squares, specifically the sides with Hill and Morgan), until I started listening to that album as a sort of Andrew Hill album, rather than a Hank Mobley album.)

No shit!!!

FYI, there are now substantial changes to the rules and regulations at the Norah Jones board, just as of today. ( Rob's a good guy, wouldn't you say??? ) Here's what they used to say (before today)... Thanks Rob. Way to go!!!

There is definitely a fine art to learning how to SPELL 'the talk'. And actually, that's one of the things I like about on-line conversations, is finding things in print, that you'd normally only ever expect to 'hear'. As MasterCard would say... "Priceless'!!!

Yes, Rob, you've handled this well. Please feel free to join us, if you like. As I'm sure you know, we have a lively exchange here, and there's always room for more. Update on my goings-on at the NJ board... I got my signature back, and Musicboy can't delete it now!!! Musicboy sent me a PM last night telling me he had edited my posts to take out any links to the Organissimo board. This meant my signature was gone, as well as a link I had given for the "Race" topic I started over here, and last night started over there too. He cited concern for "the children", so that's why I included the "over 18" part in my sig., which I don't think is necessary, but there's nothing like doing what you want and playing by their rules, all at the same time!!

Don't you need a smiley like this: - when you're over there??? I mean, you are undercover.

It's on the personal page of one of their board mods. There's a link from his personal profile on their board, to his own personal web-page (here), and the Bob Jones link is near the bottom of the list.

Holy Shit!!! I had no idea Andrew Hill was going to be playing anywhere that close to Kansas City!!! (Where I live.) Iowa City is only like a 4-5 hour drive from here. Damn, my parents are going to be in Kansas City that same weekend, but maybe I can sneak away for one day, since the concert is on Sunday. My folks are retired, so maybe I can get them to come early in the week, before the 4th of July. Man, I would give my right arm to hear Andrew Hill....... (And the concert is free too!!!)

Really??? How the hell did that happen???

I would second this request. Musicboy has really gotten way out of hand. Neon, you seem like a very reasonable person, and I too would greatly welcome your return to discuss this situation in a more calm and reasonable manner. We won't bite, I assure you. We are not even 1/1000th as 'evil' as Musicboy paints us to be, with broad brush stokes. As you can see in this thread, and in another thread that he started (link: Is it over? We'll see...), he has made some 'jaw-droppingly' amazing threats to the moderators of our board, and to some of us on the board, in response to a very tiny bit of harmless fun from a very small number of us. As a result, Organissimo (the band) have been threatened collectively, and their members threatened individually - in terms of Musicboy's supposed influence in "the music industry". Sure we were offended enough when our posts on your board were deleted, but they were restored - and for that we thank you. Those messages didn't really matter much, and it was more of a matter of principle. But Musicboy's attitude that we are somehow violating the Internet Protection Act, and that we need to be monitored (which he is supposedly so happy to do), in order to turn over his findings to the Department of Justice. My god, Musicboy appears to many of us be a paranoid raving lunatic. In any case, please do return to our board, and we will be happy to discuss this all in a more calm and reasonable manner. We are all adults here, and deep down we wish no ill will towards you or your Norah Jones board. Thank you. -- Rooster Ties

I also posted this in a thread called "How did you discover Norah jones?" Damn, I'm "squeaky-clean" subversive... I've posted in some other threads there too, and I'll probably continue as long as the mood strikes me. Also, I think I'm getting pretty good (at least in this post about how I first heard Norah) in writing in "young-speak"... Of course, I am concerned that this quote will get me banned from over there... "...but that's OK. It's a big world, and there's plenty of room for people with different ideas..."

Careful you two. Musicboy's a Christian, and you never know what his politics might be about that sort of thing. Heck, he might even think your "love-fest" is hate-speech directed at him....

Hey Rooster cut and paste, I'm banned. Well, I'm not banned yet... I got my sig chopped off, cuz it had a link to our board, and I got a link to our original "Race" thread nuked. But I'm still there, and still posting. Do a search for posts by "Rooster_Ties" (don't forget the "_" character). I'm up to about 10 posts. And check the "Race" thread I started there again. Talk about surreal!!!! And so then, if I'm understanding this right?? - if you're 'banned' from the Norah board, then you can't even LOOK at their board???? (Remember when Jim got accidently banned from the BNBB?? He could still read everything on the BNBB, he just couldn't post.) Anyway, for those of you who are "banned", here's the state of the thread, as of now. So far it's just me and Musicboy, each pretending that nothing has ever happened over here on our board. (You know, for the sake of the children... ) And it's just not the same without Musicboy's avatar....

Now technically, I haven't personally said this (I'm only quoting it, and there's a difference).... But, I must say that I simply love the sound of Jim's most noble and profound statement, as quoted above. It rolls off the tongue like nobody's business, and if was back in college with roommates, I'm quite sure that "Fuck Off, Musicboy!!!" would very quickly become my all-purpose rally-cry!! ( Alas, since I’m now married, I’m not sure it would have the same desired effect around the house. )

You wanna talk about being subversive... http://www.norahjones.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1141 heh, heh, heh, heh, heh.....