Rooster_Ties

Hey, thanks!!!!! Problem solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm very liberal in my opinions about social issues, women's rights, gay rights, etc... I consider myself a moderate democrat, although I usually answer that I'm an independent, when asked. But I would have to agree with Dan here on this one. Just because someone is Black and conservative, doesn't mean that they've 'sold out'. Not everyone who is a Republican believes everything that the Far Right believes, but they might simply believe in less of what the Left stands for, than in what the Right stands for - looking across all issues. For instance, Colon Powell is pro-choice, and more liberal than most of the current administration. But, when he looks at all the issues, and weights the plusses and minuses, he comes down on the conservative side. I don't like the current administation much at all (boy, that's the understatement of the year), BUT, even now - I'd still rather have Powell as President, over Bush, any day of the week. If only someone who was conservative on fiscal issues, but liberal on social issues could somehow get elected. (Actually, they could have a good chance of getting elected, if only they could get past the primaries.) I know, I know - a pipedream at best.

Let me preemptively say this, before anyone cries 'censorship'. This is b3-er's and Use3D's board, and they can do whatever they like with it. Hey Use3D, any chance you could turn off graphics (IMG's) in signatures??? I don’t really care one way or the other about BERIGAN's current cute/ugly sig image, but in general I think images in signatures are a pain in the ass. I think there's nothing wrong with including graphics in an actual posting itself, but to have to see a graphic in every single post by someone (over, and over, and over), especially from someone who posts very often - (IMHO) is just a big visual distraction, to put it kindly. I'm not picking on BERIGAN - if he likes the image that much, he can make it his Avatar for all I care. Just something for you to consider, or not -- it's your board. Thanks!! -- Rooster T.

OK, it's late, so I'm doing this all off the top of my head. But here's a few works specifically by some of the composers mentioned above (but not the works that won the Pulitzer), that I think are quite good, IMHO... [*]William Schuman (b. 1910) - Most of his symphonies are pretty good - quite a bit of meat on the bone (usually, but not always), but not totally far out either. Not my all-time favorite, but worth having none the less. (Schuman is best known for his orchestration of Charles Ives' "Variations on America", which was originally just for church organ.) [*]Howard Hanson (1896-1981) - Definitely a relatively conservative neo-romantic, but a pretty good one. I like his piano concerto quite a bit. It's tuneful, and a couple of the movements are kinda fun. [*]Aaron Copland (1900-1990) - I'll have to look up the details, but much to many people's surprise, Copland tried his hand at Serialism in the late 50's!! There's a disc of chamber works of his from this period, including a piano quintet, and a couple works for string quartet. Not at all what you expect when you hear the name Copland, but somehow - even when he's being Serial, he still sounds a little bit like Copland, strangely enough. [*]Charles Ives (1874-1954) - What's not to like??!!! Get anything and everything you can by Ives. In particular, his solo-piano works are simply divine, especially his two piano sonatas. There is a newly reconstructed piano concerto by Ives, that was only ever first performed just a couple years ago. It has been recorded, but hasn't been released yet, on Naxos (as part of their amazing American Composers series). When it comes out (this Fall I think), by all means get it. I've heard it performed live, and it's amazing!!! [*]Walter Piston (1894-1976) - I like most of the Piston I've heard. I don't love all of it, but I do like all of it. I can easily recomend a recent Naxos disc of chamber works, including his quintet for flute plus strings (f, v, v, viola, cello). [*]Virgil Thomson (1896-1989) - He was originally from Kansas City. Don't have much, but what I've heard reminds me of Copland. A little too 'nice' for my ears, but good if you like that sort of thing. [*]Gian-Carlo Menotti (b. 1911) - Samual Barber's life-long 'partner', if you know what I mean. I don't have much by Menotti, but he does have a nice violin concerto, if I remember right. [*]Ernst Toch (1887-1964) - Can't say enough good things about Toch, a composer I only just discovered for the first time a couple years ago. There are two discs of his symphonies on CPO, and several discs of his string quartets too. Complex but not too busy, all at the same time. One of my current favorites. [*]Samuel Barber (1910-1981) - Nobody knows Barber's 2nd symphony (only a few recordings have been done), but it's a masterpiece. Written during WWII, Barber had the score and all the parts destroyed a few years later (in the early 50's), but a set of parts were found in the late 80's, and finally it was recorded and released. There's a good and inexpensive recording on Naxos, and another one on Chandos. Barber's violin and piano concertos are great too. [*]Elliott Carter (b. 1908) - I don't have very much Carter, but I need to do something about that. What I have I like, but I couldn't even begin to remember what I have by him. [*]Roger Sessions (1896-1985) - my favorite Serial composer after Schoenberg and Berg. (Actually, I probably like Sessions a bit more than either Schoenberg or Berg, sometimes anyway.) Most of his CD's are out of print, but if you can find his symphonies 6, 7, & 9 (recorded by the American Composers Orchestra), it'll change your life - if you like that sort of thing. I'll add to this list tomorrow. It's getting late, and I don't have the energy now to do the more recent composers from the list above. Many of them I don't really know that, but I few I do. Check back again, and I'll have more... OK, one more... John Corigliano's first symphony is a winner.

So, then, what's the scoop on Joe Henderson's "Power to the People"?? Is it only available as an import?? Is it available in a jewel-box?? - or (as I suspect), only in one of those god-awful "mini-LP" formats. Of all of Joe's Milestone material, "Power..." really needs to be available domestically as a single-CD release. (IMHO), it's by far Joe's best Milestone release (and I like most of them), and one could argue that it's his best album after leaving Blue Note (or at least certainly one of them). ===== Just answered my own question, at Dusty Groove... Milestone/Universe (Italy), 1969 Condition: New Copy One of the best, and certainly the rarest, of the Joe Henderson electric sides from the early 70s! The record features Joe hitting a wonderful warm spiritual vibe -- playing with an excellent group that features Herbie Hancock on electric piano, Ron Carter on bass, and Jack DeJohnette on drums -- plus additional trumpet by Mike Lawrence on 2 tracks. Tracks are long and flowing -- with a mode that's a perfect bridge between Joe's Blue Note work, and the spiritual soul jazz sound of the 70s! Titles include "Black Narcissus", "Isotope", "Afro-Centric", and "Power to The People". (Issued in a cool 5" gatefold cover!) So, then, what's "Universe"?? And what else are they reissuing?? And why isn't Fantasy/OJC putting this out??

Thanks for the kind words, Jazzmoose. I too wish I could find more conversation-space like this, both on-line, and in the 'real world' too. And actually, that was kinda what this thread was all about in the first place --- about me trying to find ways to have conversations like this (or constructive conversations (and opportunities for such conversations) of some sort, any sort really) with people of different races. Some good news - Just today I discovered that there's a monthly (or maybe it's every other week) breakfast-meeting between members of our church (which is 90% White, 7% "other, non-Black", and 3% Black -- I'm guessing at those stats, but you get the idea) and members of an "all-Black" church that's also here in Kansas City. Time to get on the horn and find out when the next meetin' is, and get my tail down there to it. Does anybody else here on the Organissimo board live in a 'hypersegregated' city?? - meaning a city where the living/neighborhood paterns are divided very strongly by race?? Kansas City is like that, and I remember St. Louis (where I grew up) as being like that too (although to a slightly lesser degree). I'm sure I'm not the only one here in this boat, but I seem to be the only one in this kind of situation who's contributing to this thread. If anybody's reading this thread, and not contributing - please consider joining in. I know this isn't nearly as much 'fun' as most of the other political threads, but I would appreciate some other perspectives on this topic. Thanks!!

I've got the "Who's Crazy" set on CD, and there's a chance I might be willing to part with it. I haven't spun it in a long, long time. And if it's been that long, then I'm temped to consider whether I really need it or not. I make no promises, but I'll give it a spin a few times over the next couple days, and see if I feel the desparate urge to keep it or not. (David, you've got right of first refusal, if I decide to part with it - that is if you're interested.)

I'll hafta look through the list, and get back to you, A.B. - many of these are pretty obscure, and I'm not sure the Pulitzer really goes to the best work or best composer each year. (Duh, that was the point of the story, to some degree.) I'm 5 minutes late to a rehearsal - I'll post something else here to this thread in the next day or two... Gotta run!!!

Hadn't realized that this had come out by itself?? I thought "Power to the People" was only available as part of the big Joe Henderson "Milestone" box set, or as as some sort of import (I thought I read from Italy - ??). Anyway, I'm pretty sure it isn't available as a regular domestic release from OJC/Fantasy. (It wasn't in their on-line catalog anyway.) Appreciate the offer, undergroundagent. I already have the Joe "Milestone" box, but might take you up on it. Lemme think about it. (We can take it up through PM's or e-mail.)

OK, maybe you've got it on CD, as part of a big box set, or now-long-out-of-print import, but what about your jazz buddies who don't have it, and can't get it without paying a mint for it on eBay??? OK, what albums do you really wish were not only on CD, but on CD in the U.S. (or in your part of the world), in a nice "reasonably" priced single-CD format (meaning not available only as part of some huge box set), so that you could easily tell other people "they gotta get this one!!!". One that comes to mind is Joe Henderson's "Power To The People", which is probably my favorite non-Blue Note release from Joe. Another one, that will be fixed soon (in October!!!) is Larry Young's "Mother Ship!!" What albums should be easily available to everyone, for a decent price??? - that currently aren't!!!

I both agree with you, Noj, and disagree too - in different ways... To the extent that cultural pride in one's ethnic heritage (sometimes) can resemble something more like the "I'm better than you are!!" nature that fans of pro and college sports often demonstrate... I agree, totally. IMHO, pride in one's own 'group' (however that group is defined) can certainly take on an unpleasant tone, at times. But, much of pride in one's cultural heritage is often wrapped up in foods, music(!), decorations, dance, folk-art, folklore, and shared history. I think it's hard not to appreciate to the collective culture of dozens and hundred's of years of tradition within a particular cultural community (sometimes even thousands of years). And I don't think that celebrating these sorts of things necessarily reduces the value of other cultures not being celebrated. (Meaning a Cinco de Mayo street festival isn't an expression of the lack of worth of Japanese culture, for instance, or the lack of worth of any other non-Mexican culture.) But, getting back to my sports analogy, I'm totally with you, Noj, in one respect. Extreme pride in one's self because of some loosely defined association (as in the simple case of rabid sports fans of a particular team), is often pretty ugly (IMHO). And the same thing goes with someone thinking that they're really 'bad', with lots of attitude about it -- simply because they're Black, or Chicano, or a German 'skin-head', or a Cubs fan, or any of 1000 other examples that you can probably find in most cultures (or sub-cultures). I guess it all depends on the intent behind the expression of pride in one's self, when that pride stems from something other than individual achievements. (PS: And no, Noj, I don't think you're coming across 'badly'. I think this is turning into a good discussion!!)

I mostly lurk at AAJ, and I don't check it nearly as frequently as here. For whatever reason, it seems that the jazz-related threads on AJJ are of less interest to me. For instance, shortly after I joined, I did a search on the AAJ board for topics about Andrew Hill, Charles Tolliver, Woody Shaw, and/or Larry Young - and I found very little discussion about any of these guys. Hill especially - how can a jazz board not really ever talk about Andrew Hill??? Seems also that there are are a few people on the AAJ board (not many, but a few that post fairly often) that have some pretty strong opinions about what "is" jazz, and what "isn't" jazz --- or at least what is "good" jazz, and what isn't "good" jazz. And those kinds of arguments really don't do much for me. The vibe here is a bit more "everyone can like what they want to like" in terms of music, which is good. (FYI: I certainly have lots of strong opinions about what I think is good, and what isn't - but I don't think it does any good to screw-up a perfectly OK thread that someone else has started. In fact, sometimes I find I learn something I didn't know, and I'll go back and check out something I previously had dismissed.) Although, I might say that I'm getting a little bit tired of the amount of political conversation here (specifically the number of political threads, vs. the number of other threads). I'm not suggesting any kind of action be taken to change this, but I am entitled to my opinion. Some days it seems like half the traffic on the board is in the "political topics" area. Often I think it just bogs down the board, and turns off other jazz-interested people from sticking around. Just my opinion.

I think some of it depends on how other people choose to interpret "pride in one's cultural background" when they see it, and to some degree it also depends on how that pride is expressed (certainly). My father-in-law is about 75% Swedish, and my wife is probably 40% to 50% Swedish too (can't remember the exact percentages of my mother-in-law's background, but she's a little bit Swedish too, maybe as much as 25%??) My father-in-law in particular, has quite a bit of pride in his cultural background, with a few "dala horses" around the house... My parents are both mostly German, and they have a fair amount of pride in their background too. (Of course they are 200% American when it comes to discussions about WWII, and take no pride in that part in German history.) I was adopted, so I have no idea what my exact "bio-cultural" background is, other than I know I'm a typical Euro-mutt of some sort. I take some pride in my parent's German heritage, but probably not any more than I take some pride in my wife's Swedish heritage. I guess I mean to say that I've seen all kinds of various 'while' European-Americans taking pride in their cultural backgrounds, in ways that don't necessarily say "We're better than everyone else". I think some of it depends on the kind of 'filter' people look at these cultural expressions through. I can choose to be 'put-off' by the notion of "Black Power", or I can choose to recognise that there are probably some logical reasons for how and why the notion of "Black Power" came to be an expression used in this country, both politically, culturally.

Just wanted to take a moment and thank everyone who has replied to this thread, for keeping the tone of it in the realm of "constructive ideas for change". Since I know lots of these kinds of discussions can easily devolve into finger pointing, where each side blames the other for the causes of racial problems, I sincerely want to say "thanks" for helping to have a reasonable discussion. And to those of you who haven't replied yet, I want to further invite you into the conversation. You don't have to have all the answers, or any of the answers for that matter. Just your observations and thoughts on the topic are more than welcome. Thanks!!! -- Rooster T.

There are tapes of Ornette jamming with the Dead, from when Prime Time opened for the dead in I think around '88 or so. I used to have a couple of them (may still, buried in boxes, haven't heard them in years). Anybody else heard these??? Pretty interesting to hear Ornette in a more conventional context. I seem to remember him playing in a typical Dead "space jam" kinda thing, but also on one or two more 'normal' songs.

OK, regardless of the content of the picture, I think that images in signatures are a pain in the ass. I don't care for this one, sure, but I didn't care for the pac-man one either. Somebody said it up above, that Avatar's should provide more than enough repetitive graphical content for anyone's needs. BERIGAN, if you like that picture that we're voting on so much, make it your Avatar. Or better yet, I wish the board moderators could disable graphics from signatures. IMHO...

Reminds me, I've occasionally wondered what atonal country music might sound like!!!??????

Anybody heard this CD before?? Jimmy Woods is on it. Here's The AMG review... "Back to Avalon" (recorded in 1960, not released until 1995):

See the recent Teddy Edwards (R.I.P.) thread for discussion of an obscure album that Jimmy Woods was on as a sideman...

Conan's 'Late Night' Breaks the Mold published 02:01 PM - MAY 09, 2003 Eastern Time Here's the dirt on Conan O'Brien: His show has been remodeled in clay. In the grand tradition of "Celebrity Deathmatch" and "Wallace and Gromit," NBC's "Late Night With Conan O'Brien" has been transformed into clay animation for an episode that will air Thursday night (May 15th, 2003). "This may be the best show we've ever done," O'Brien declared Friday _ "in clay." The episode, in production for months, is a clay recreation of a "Late Night" hour that aired in its original, live-action version last October _ including the show's opening, monologue and even lead-ins to commercials. Guests on the episode (which airs Friday at 12:35 a.m. EDT) are "Jackass" star Johnny Knoxville, comedian Richard Lewis and musical guest David Bowie. In addition, Mr. T appears in a sketch. ___ On the Net: NBC Web site: http://www.nbc.com

Great question!!! There's already a fairly long Jimmy Woods thread here (on this very board)... Jimmy Woods - CONFLICT, first U.S. CD release, w/ bonus tracks!! I'll bump it up so it get's into "Todays postings" too... (I figure we might want to add to that thread, rather than start another Jimmy Woods thread.... )

I voted for ETCETERA, but from this particular set of 10 conns, BASRA would be a close second for me.