Rooster_Ties

Anybody have (or heard) the Saturn LP "On Jupiter" from 1979??? The one with the totally kick-ass disco-funk tune on it?? - the tune's called "U.F.O." (Really!! - it really is very funky, and more than a little bit "disco"-like.) One word: out-fucking-rageous ( "Disco Kid" is on this album too. )

I've got a ton of Sun Ra too, though much of it (all the vinyl anyway) I stumbled on almost by accident, or at least from a fortunate circumstance. About 15 years ago I was working on a big project back in College, about Sun Ra. It was going to be my Senior Honors Project, towards my degree in music. (Didn't turn out to happen, for various reasons. I did get the degree, just didn't do the project.) But, at the time I was trying to track down as much Sun Ra as I could, on LP, CD, tapes, whatever. I posted some info about my project on-line (back on "BITNET", if anybody remembers those days), and a guy wrote to me saying he had like 25 different Sun Ra LP's, mostly in excellent condition, most of which had never been on CD. About 8 of them were original Saturn LP's, including one from back in the late 50's, and one of the hard-to-find "Horo" double-LP's from Italy, recorded in about 1978 ("Other Voices, Other Blues"), which is an incredible quartet date with Ra, a drummer, Gilmore, and Michael Ray. He wasn't a Ra collector, but had gotten them when he bought some guys entire estate-sale record holdings, in order to get some other (more 'inside') dates. He had kept all the Ra albums together, for several years, rather than sell them off one by one. He knew he had something special, especially the Saturn LP's, most of which were in plain white jackets, several with original (hand-drawn) artwork. He wanted to sell them to one person who would be interested in them all. As a result, I probably have about 25 Ra CD's, and those same 25 or so LP's. Oh, the guy sold me all the Ra LP's for $100 (total!!), which I think included shipping - this was back in about 1992. (Hell, the Horo double-LP is worth about $50 just by itself now, at least to the right person - and it was hard to find back then too.) Funny, it's hard for me to pick just a few Ra albums as being my favorites. Much like Frank Zappa, there are tunes all over Ra's catalog that I love, but few albums that I love every single cut on. I really like 'em all, but the "very best of the best" is spread out all over. I'll think it over, and post some more thoughts here later...

The first time I was ever at their web-site was last night (which gave me the idea for this thread!), and I didn't see the "history" link then, until someone pointed it out here in this thread. (And a big "thanks!!" is in order for that.) I had a Fantasy (paper) catalog years ago, but haven't seen one in probably 4-5 years. Back then, I remember there being lots and lots of people who I really didn't know that well, among a few others who I really did know well (Miles, Monk, Trane, Evans, Mingus, the biggies...) For better or worse, much of what I know of jazz in the 50's and 60's is from being almost immersed in the Blue Note catalog (getting every title I could and can find), along with most of Miles post-Prestige output, and a smattering of other titles on other labels - lot's of Ornette, for instance. It's not that I've consciously avoided other labels (and I certainly do have a lot of non-BN recordings if you look at everything I own recorded after 1970. But probably 50% of all my CD's of recordings from the 60's are Blue Notes, maybe closer to 60% perhaps. Time to play catch-up!!

This is a general Sun Ra thread, that I'm starting after listening to Ra's "Lanquidity" from 1978, just this morning. What a goovin', soulful, kinda 'out there' but not really that far 'out there' kinda album!!! I love Michael Ray's contribution (on trumpet), as he's always one of the highlights of any Sun Ra album he's on. Interestingly, Eddie Gale is on this one too - and I'm not sure who takes which solos, but I may have to listen more closely again (soon), and see if I can figure it out. Anybody know who the guitarist "Disco Kid" was??? (He's credited on two or three Ra albums, besides this one.) To me, "Lanquidity" has an almost "STRATA-EAST"-ish kind of vibe to it, which I mentioned in another thread. If you don't own very many Sun Ra albums/CD's, can you say which ones you do own??? I'm interested in knowing what Ra titles people have, since there are so many in his vast catalog, and quite a surprising number have been released on CD too. More generally speaking, the Sun Ra I love best is the 'middle ground', where he didn't go all out into the stratosphere. Sometimes I describe it like this: When they sound "like a high-school marching band on a collective acid trip!!!". (I love that description, and I've been using it for at least 10 years.) The "really out-there" Sun Ra output is interesting to me, sure, but not my favorite Sun Ra. I like Ra's really "inside" work too (or at least as "inside" as he ever got - for instance, is solo-piano work), but, it's the tunes and albums where he still had lots of real tunes (of his) that I love so much. The ones with firery soloing, but where things didn't get totally out of control, and when they didn't become all-out percussion love-fests. What are your favorite Sun Ra albums???

Which one of these labels (if any) had the most post-1960 "progressive" albums??? I'm really into Andrew Hill, Charles Tolliver, Larry Young, Sam Rivers (on BN), Woody Shaw, Sun Ra's more "inside" stuff, Ornette's Atlantic work, Tyrone Washington, you get the idea. But also Carmell Jones, Gerald Wilson, Blue Mitchel's BN work, Donald Byrd's pre-1971 BN work. And of course, Herbie, Wayne, Miles, all the usual suspects there - for more late 60's stuff. So, then, what's on these labels that I might like, that I've probably overlooked all these years???

Update: Well, I'm most of the way through "Grass Roots" (finally!!) - and I'll go on record as saying the most unexpectedly good thing about these sessions (among lots of good things!) is the presence of Jimmy Ponder on guitar on the earlier session (the one with Woody Shaw). Ponder adds a 'tartness' that really gives that date an added depth and authenticity, given Hill's somewhat suprising foray into 'soul jazz'. Looking forward to the discussion!!!

Has anybody here actually taken the undergound tour?? I've read mixed reviews of it in two different guidebooks. Not "bad" reviews, but definitely "mixed".

SOAP!!!

I seem to recall that in the last season or so of "Kotter", Gabe Kaplan had actually left the show. So there was this show called "Welcome Back Kotter" that had no Kotter... That might have been it. I remember the setting not being in the school nearly as much, and more focus on the wife, and now that you mention it - less Kotter. Man, my wife got me hooked on American Idol last season, and now I'm just as hooked as she is with the 2nd season. Go Ruben!!!

Great suggestions everybody!! Thanks again!!!

Time to start registering as a dozen other 'phantom' board members, and stuff the ballot box!!! ( Just kidding!!!! )

Wasn't there a very short (and painfully unsuccessful) spin-off to "Welcome Back Kotter"??? Something like "Kotter's Back Again", something that wasn't set in the classroom??? Or am I imagining things again... Or maybe it was some other sit-com staring that same main guy from Kotter???

Thanks AB!! First I've gotta get "Lift Every Voice" out of my CD player (it's 'stuck', so I 'had' to listen to it 4 times this week!! ), and finally get to "Grass Roots".

By the way, I'm gonna set Peter up with a burn of the bonus tracks. Pete - it might take a week or so for me to get to it, but I'll see that you get these...

Man, I love this board. How many other jazz boards would have voted this much for Andew Hill and Larry Young?? - (and really 'progressive' Larry Young at that!!). I'm not saying there's any kind of bias for these more progressive players (here on the Organissimo board), but I do think we embrace these 'very progressive' but not quite 'avant garde' players more than most on the other jazz boards. Guess that's why I like it here so much!!

I listened to all the samples at bn.com, and went with the Ornette. (Probably won't matter in the end, since he's down in the polls.) Maybe "New York Is Now" and "Love Call" would be good to do sometime as an AOTW. (And really, there'd be plenty of justification for doing both a the same time.)

Another couple that I just thought of... Eddie Henderson Bennie Maupin And also (as was said above), I think Larry Young might have been a really interesting choice. I'm not aware of any organ players on STRATA-EAST, but that could have been a really interesting direction for the label. Oh man, what about John Patton!!! B)

Double Thread Don't post any more to this one, go here for the other one.... http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...f=19&t=1013&hl=

Anyone else think there's something weird about "The Creeper" from 1967?? It's got... Pepper Adams - Sax (Baritone), Brass Sonny Red - Sax (Alto) Miroslav Vitous - Bass Donald Byrd - Trumpet Chick Corea - Piano Mickey Roker - Drums I've only heard this one a few times (when I borrowed a friend's Byrd/Adams Mosaic), but I remember not being able to get my ears around it completely. I liked it, but there was also something strange about it that I couldn't quite figure out. Maybe if I heard it again, and more often. ( I plan to get the Byrd/Adams Mosaic someday, when I have the money to do it. )

I've gotta admit that for most of my 15 or so years of being interested in jazz (since I was in College back in the late 80's), that I've sorta mentally "blurred" (and often confused) all these labels, since they're all under the "OJC/Fantasy" umbrella. Help me sort them out, so I can begin to give each of them some of their own identities in my own mind, and perhaps more so in yours too... Here's what little I know about each... "Fantasy" - don't even know if this label (as a jazz label) has it's own identity, or it it's just the umbrella for everything else?? "Prestige" - What Miles and Trane (and probably lots of others) recorded on in the early and mid 50's. "Galaxy" - no idea. "Milestone" - What Joe Henderson was on in the very late 60's and early-to-mid 70's. "Riverside" - There's a bunch of Bill Evans on Riverside, I think in the late 50's??? "Debut" - no idea. "Contemporary" - seems to be mostly hard bop stuff in the 60's, maybe similar to Pacific Jazz?? "Jazzland" - no idea. "Pablo" - I should remember this, but I don't. Aren't there a bunch of Monk recordings on Pablo?? Obviously I need help... Thanks!!

Yes indeed, Barney Miller was incredibly underrated. I think it was every bit as good as M*A*S*H (the early seasons, before it got more serious, or at least less slapstick), or WKRP, or Cheers, or any of those kinds of many-characters-all-in-the-same-situation sitcoms. I don't think I ever saw it when it first ran, but rather I saw most of the episodes in syndication, in the early and mid 80's.

Maybe it's a generational thing (I was born in 1969), but personally I have never found much to like in "The Honeymooners". There are plently of other 'classic' TV shows that I really do like, but Gleason's character always just seemed (to me) like a overbearing, loudmouthed jerk. And his continual threats of "pow, right to the moon" aways seemed bad on about a half-a-dozen different levels. (Then again, I've never liked The Three Stooges either, so what do I know??) I do really like Abbott and Costello however!!! And those old Francis, The Talking Mule movies were a lot of fun too!! Anybody remember the old "Ma and Pa Kettle" movies?? I know, I know, these weren't TV shows, but I saw them all on TV when I was growing up in the late 70's and early 80's, on the "Saturday or Sunday afternoon movie" on the independant TV station in town (we never had cable TV). My Mom always had a peculiar fondness for Dark Shadows, that oddball soap opera in the late 60's, about a vampire. Kinda of the first "X-Files", in some ways, only without any budget!! It's been years and years, but I remember seeing a few Dark Shadows episodes in syndication back in the early 80's I think. Kind of had a charm all it's own. And, of course, there's Dr. Who. My favorite was always the 3rd Doctor, the one before Tom Baker (the most famous one). The 3rd Doctor was played by John Pertwee (see pic below). I always loved this era of Dr. Who because 1) I love the look and feel of TV shows from the late 60's and early 70's (despite the fact that I didn't even see all that much TV then, cuz I wasn't even born until 1969). AND, 2) the 3rd Doctor (Pertwee) always reminded me of my favorite uncle....

Call me crazy (lord knows I've been called worse), but lately I can't help but play these "what if" games. SO, here's the latest... Who could have been really GREAT artists to have recorded on the famed early 70's label "STRATA-EAST"??? - you know, the one formed by Charles Tolliver and Stanley Cowell in about 1969 or 1970. (And I mean, besides people who actually recorded on that label.) Note, the question isn't just "who would have been a 'good fit' on STRATA-EAST", but be a little creative - and think of some people who maybe turned out only one even slightly "STRATA-EAST"-ish sounding album in the late 60's or early 70's, and imagine what they might have done making a few albums with that vibe that STRATA-EAST seemed to have. "What if" they had gone that direction with they career??? - if only for a few years (say from 1970-1976). I'll go first, with a couple non-obvious choices... Andrew Hill, on the basis of 'side one' of the 2nd LP of Hill's 2LP set "One For One", the side with Charles Tolliver (tp), Pat Patrick (as/fl/bs), Bennie Maupin (fl/ts/bass-cl), Ron Carter (B), and Ben Riley (d). This one tiny bit of Hill (only three tunes!) has an 'attitude' and 'swagger' about it like almost nothing else in the entire Hill catalog. Also, in some ways I think Hill's "Lift Every Voice" has some of those same STRATA-EAST things going for it too. Is it really that hard to imagine a series of Andrew Hill albums in the early 70's, continuing with the kind of output he had in 1969 and 1970??? (Maybe "Dance With Death" and/or "Grass Roots" might also fit here too, but to a lesser degree.) Sun Ra, on the basis of Ra's work on "Lanquidity", which I'll admit wasn't until 1978 - but for the sake of argument, let's pretend Ra went through that phase a few years earlier. Another "Ra" album that kinda vaguely hints at the STRATA-EAST sound is "Strange Celestial Road" from 1980. Of course, Woody Shaw would be an obvious choice too, I think. (No elaboration probably needed.) What about Joe Henderson??? To me, it's not very hard to imagine him being on STRATA-EAST. Who else??? Maybe Donald Byrd could have turned out some albums (on S-E) that were better than his 'really-commercial' BN output, starting around 1972. PS: OK, from now on, in this thread "S-E" stands for "STRATA-EAST", if you get tired of typing it out.

If you wanna talk about a really crap TV show - my wife and I took a week to paint the living room and dining room last month, and while we were having lunch on a weekday, we saw an old episode of Buck Rogers (from the early 80's I believe), probably on the Sci-Fi channel. Uugh, what a stupid and horibly dated show that was!!!

I've listened to "Lift Every Voice" twice over the past couple days, and think it would have been an equally interesting album. And actually, I'm really finding all kinds of new things in "Lift Every Voice", every time I hear it. That said, I'm also really looking forward to "Grass Roots". And, given the duplication of a few tunes (between the two different bands on this disk), and the obvious opportunity to compare and contrast each of the players (Lee and Woody, etc...) should make for a good discussion, I'm hope.