Rooster_Ties

Anyone else think there's something weird about "The Creeper" from 1967?? It's got... Pepper Adams - Sax (Baritone), Brass Sonny Red - Sax (Alto) Miroslav Vitous - Bass Donald Byrd - Trumpet Chick Corea - Piano Mickey Roker - Drums I've only heard this one a few times (when I borrowed a friend's Byrd/Adams Mosaic), but I remember not being able to get my ears around it completely. I liked it, but there was also something strange about it that I couldn't quite figure out. Maybe if I heard it again, and more often. ( I plan to get the Byrd/Adams Mosaic someday, when I have the money to do it. )

I've gotta admit that for most of my 15 or so years of being interested in jazz (since I was in College back in the late 80's), that I've sorta mentally "blurred" (and often confused) all these labels, since they're all under the "OJC/Fantasy" umbrella. Help me sort them out, so I can begin to give each of them some of their own identities in my own mind, and perhaps more so in yours too... Here's what little I know about each... "Fantasy" - don't even know if this label (as a jazz label) has it's own identity, or it it's just the umbrella for everything else?? "Prestige" - What Miles and Trane (and probably lots of others) recorded on in the early and mid 50's. "Galaxy" - no idea. "Milestone" - What Joe Henderson was on in the very late 60's and early-to-mid 70's. "Riverside" - There's a bunch of Bill Evans on Riverside, I think in the late 50's??? "Debut" - no idea. "Contemporary" - seems to be mostly hard bop stuff in the 60's, maybe similar to Pacific Jazz?? "Jazzland" - no idea. "Pablo" - I should remember this, but I don't. Aren't there a bunch of Monk recordings on Pablo?? Obviously I need help... Thanks!!

Yes indeed, Barney Miller was incredibly underrated. I think it was every bit as good as M*A*S*H (the early seasons, before it got more serious, or at least less slapstick), or WKRP, or Cheers, or any of those kinds of many-characters-all-in-the-same-situation sitcoms. I don't think I ever saw it when it first ran, but rather I saw most of the episodes in syndication, in the early and mid 80's.

Maybe it's a generational thing (I was born in 1969), but personally I have never found much to like in "The Honeymooners". There are plently of other 'classic' TV shows that I really do like, but Gleason's character always just seemed (to me) like a overbearing, loudmouthed jerk. And his continual threats of "pow, right to the moon" aways seemed bad on about a half-a-dozen different levels. (Then again, I've never liked The Three Stooges either, so what do I know??) I do really like Abbott and Costello however!!! And those old Francis, The Talking Mule movies were a lot of fun too!! Anybody remember the old "Ma and Pa Kettle" movies?? I know, I know, these weren't TV shows, but I saw them all on TV when I was growing up in the late 70's and early 80's, on the "Saturday or Sunday afternoon movie" on the independant TV station in town (we never had cable TV). My Mom always had a peculiar fondness for Dark Shadows, that oddball soap opera in the late 60's, about a vampire. Kinda of the first "X-Files", in some ways, only without any budget!! It's been years and years, but I remember seeing a few Dark Shadows episodes in syndication back in the early 80's I think. Kind of had a charm all it's own. And, of course, there's Dr. Who. My favorite was always the 3rd Doctor, the one before Tom Baker (the most famous one). The 3rd Doctor was played by John Pertwee (see pic below). I always loved this era of Dr. Who because 1) I love the look and feel of TV shows from the late 60's and early 70's (despite the fact that I didn't even see all that much TV then, cuz I wasn't even born until 1969). AND, 2) the 3rd Doctor (Pertwee) always reminded me of my favorite uncle....

Call me crazy (lord knows I've been called worse), but lately I can't help but play these "what if" games. SO, here's the latest... Who could have been really GREAT artists to have recorded on the famed early 70's label "STRATA-EAST"??? - you know, the one formed by Charles Tolliver and Stanley Cowell in about 1969 or 1970. (And I mean, besides people who actually recorded on that label.) Note, the question isn't just "who would have been a 'good fit' on STRATA-EAST", but be a little creative - and think of some people who maybe turned out only one even slightly "STRATA-EAST"-ish sounding album in the late 60's or early 70's, and imagine what they might have done making a few albums with that vibe that STRATA-EAST seemed to have. "What if" they had gone that direction with they career??? - if only for a few years (say from 1970-1976). I'll go first, with a couple non-obvious choices... Andrew Hill, on the basis of 'side one' of the 2nd LP of Hill's 2LP set "One For One", the side with Charles Tolliver (tp), Pat Patrick (as/fl/bs), Bennie Maupin (fl/ts/bass-cl), Ron Carter (B), and Ben Riley (d). This one tiny bit of Hill (only three tunes!) has an 'attitude' and 'swagger' about it like almost nothing else in the entire Hill catalog. Also, in some ways I think Hill's "Lift Every Voice" has some of those same STRATA-EAST things going for it too. Is it really that hard to imagine a series of Andrew Hill albums in the early 70's, continuing with the kind of output he had in 1969 and 1970??? (Maybe "Dance With Death" and/or "Grass Roots" might also fit here too, but to a lesser degree.) Sun Ra, on the basis of Ra's work on "Lanquidity", which I'll admit wasn't until 1978 - but for the sake of argument, let's pretend Ra went through that phase a few years earlier. Another "Ra" album that kinda vaguely hints at the STRATA-EAST sound is "Strange Celestial Road" from 1980. Of course, Woody Shaw would be an obvious choice too, I think. (No elaboration probably needed.) What about Joe Henderson??? To me, it's not very hard to imagine him being on STRATA-EAST. Who else??? Maybe Donald Byrd could have turned out some albums (on S-E) that were better than his 'really-commercial' BN output, starting around 1972. PS: OK, from now on, in this thread "S-E" stands for "STRATA-EAST", if you get tired of typing it out.

If you wanna talk about a really crap TV show - my wife and I took a week to paint the living room and dining room last month, and while we were having lunch on a weekday, we saw an old episode of Buck Rogers (from the early 80's I believe), probably on the Sci-Fi channel. Uugh, what a stupid and horibly dated show that was!!!

I've listened to "Lift Every Voice" twice over the past couple days, and think it would have been an equally interesting album. And actually, I'm really finding all kinds of new things in "Lift Every Voice", every time I hear it. That said, I'm also really looking forward to "Grass Roots". And, given the duplication of a few tunes (between the two different bands on this disk), and the obvious opportunity to compare and contrast each of the players (Lee and Woody, etc...) should make for a good discussion, I'm hope.

Thanks A.B.!!!

The site doesn't appear to be the same as when Google cached it, but there are bits of an interview with Lee Morgan in here... By the way, the link for this article was (at one time anyway): http://www.trumpetjazz.com/artists.cgi?nam...ame=Lee+Morgan.

(And not too suprisingly) I probably ought to add Jimmy Wood's "Conflict to this list, for the contribution of Carmell Jones. Anybody know of any other somewhat 'progressive' dates that Carmell was on??? I can't think of any...

Everybody start listening to Andrew Hill - "Grass Roots" for my album of the week, which starts this Sunday Thanks!!!

Beautifully stated. I'm not much into really "out there" free-jazz (for instance, much as I love Sun Ra, the Sun Ra I love most is the 'middle-ground', where he's neither as 'out' as he can go, not as 'in' as he sometimes is either). Most Ornette doesn't seem nearly as structureless (and/or systemless) to my ears, as some other 'free' players, and therefore - he seems to fit right in with that same 'middle-ground' I like so much. (Most Andrew Hill is in that area for me too.)

Makes me really wish there was a McCoy Tyner album from 1969 or 1970, with just McCoy, Lee Morgan, plus bass and drums. I love "piano trio plus trumpet" albums quite a lot, and it's a shame Lee Morgan didn't do one sometime in the late 60's. ( If I remember right, I think "Candy" was Lee's only "piano trio plus trumpet" album, either as leader or sideman. )

I just sampled a whole bunch of Phineas' 1960's Contemporary output (on bn.com), and DAMN!!! How did I ever not cross paths with this guy before???? I mean, I've heard his name a time or two, but looking now at his AMG bio, it looks like he didn't work as a sideman much at all - and that's often how I find out about people. Also, I'm pretty passionate about jazz between 1963 and 1969, and Mr. Newborn hardly recorded at all during that time - so there's perhaps another reason I've never heard him before.

That's enough for me, buddy. And, that was more than I could muster...

So, I suppose I should... .....and also know about Phineas Newborn and his music.

I'm ashamed to say I don't know a god damn thing about Phineas Newborn. (OK, I just read the AMG bio - so I do kinda know that much now.) Where would one start???

I really like most of Byrd's pre-1970 output, but my favorites are those recorded after 1965... Mustang! ('66) Blackjack, Slow Drag, The Creeper ('67) Fancy Free, Kofi ('69) Electric Byrd ('70) But that's as far as I'll go. The Byrd dates after 1970 just don't do a thing for me.

Not having heard any Weston before (not a single note that I can think of), I went off in search of some sound samples... For what they're worth, most (if not all) of these albums have 1-minute samples of every tune on every disc... at bn.com: http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/res...erid=2WRGO2BNHJ

There are 1-minute samples of all of the tracks from each of these CD's at www.bn.com, and here are links to each one... Change of the Century Olé Coltrane Sonny Meets Hawk! Ask Me Now! Thought this might help, as it helped me. (The only one of these four that I own is the Ornette.)

On the U.S. CD (just released), there are alternates of 'Conflict' (4:50) 'Aim' (7:10) 'Look To Your Heart' (5:50) For a total of nearly 18 extra minutes of music.

Hadn't realized that 'A Fickle Sonance' was that much of a progressive of an album (it's one of the few McLean BN discs I don't own). No reason for not owning it - just haven't managed to get it yet. No excuse either, since it's an RVG now.

Some very interesting choices there, A.B., including a couple I'm not very familiar with. Gonna hafta think it over, before I vote. Looking forward to the discussion!

Can anyone post a picture of this cover to this thread?? I'd be curious to see it. Sounds cool, indeed!! B)