Big Beat Steve

Just to add to the picture: Check out these too: George Wallington Al Haig Claude Williamson Dodo Marmarosa

What does "re-ify" (or "reify"?) mean, please? No matter what Whyton may have to say, this review is off-putting just because of the apparent writing style of the book, and if what the reviewer says about the STYLE of this book is only correct by 50%, then ... oh well ... Why cannot these "academics" relax a little sometimes and stop their academic navel-gazing for a moment to see when their subject on hand calls for an at least SLIGHTLY more "down to earth" treatment if they care about reaching their target audience AT ALL? After all you can be scholarly and still be comprehensible. Or is a PH.D. required to listen to "A love Supreme"? (No, I have no idea who WIll Layman is and with what grains of salt his reviews may have to be taken, but I have come across this problem of academics going overboard in academic blurb when dealing with jazz before (though apprently nowhere near as badly as here) and I DID obtain a University degree too - in a field not a zillion miles away from (academic) writing so normally "ought" to get to grips with a fair dose of scholarliness)

Ted Gioia's book is terrific Tom. It's the best jazz book I've come across. Gordon's book is much more in-depth IMO, Gioia's book needs to be expanded in the next edition. For me it was the 1993 CD boxset: Chet Baker, The Pacific Jazz Years. That really turned me onto the West Coast sound, although back then, it was more difficult to research musicians. Disagreed to some extent. I've read both, and while Gordon's book has a more detailed analysis of specific LPs/recordings and a more comprehensive guide to "suggested listening", Gioia's book IMHO manages better to transmit the background, context and feeling of that time and place in the context of the music so Gioia "fleshes out" the musical setting a bit more beyond the way it is experienced strictly through recordings and discographical listings. So both have their strengths and complement each other, but when I want to read up on the context of WCJ as a sort of background to listening to the music, I find I reach for Gioia's book far more often. Particularly since if I am after comments on specific recordings I check Alain Tercinet's book which covers even MORE WCJ recordings (not always quite as detailed but it does cover more ground).

A belated THANK YOU to King Ubu for highlighting this CD series. I've put half a dozen from that series in my amazon (seller) shopping cart right away last night ...

Can we at least agree that neither Charlie Barnet (who also recorded "Redskin Rhumba", BTW) nor Jim Flora nor those who happen to have reissued this LP with the original Flora cover will be excommunicated?

Like Kurt Tucholsky said in 1919 upon the question "What is satire allowed to do?" "EVERYTHING!" Too bad the pendulum swings back in so many ways into a network of instrumentalized offendedness (that often is only out to quiet those who voice criticism in the sharpest way possible to get the message home so you HAVE to confront the issue) in today's world. I can see the point of keeping up the tradition of this team's name (though I can also see the reasons that ought to speak in favor of choosing a more up-to-date name) and if the Onion sees fit to publish the article along the lines of "If you as the owner of this team cannot see any reason why this name that offends a certain group of people ought to be thought over, then how about becoming the butt of such offensive terms yourself just so you see what it feels like?" Isn't this quite obvious, just as obvious as the fact that it is only this VERY person that is targeted and nobody else? Instructive at any rate ... never heard the term "kike" before ...

Indeed. Including on the much-loved (and perfectly legit) "Original Vogue Masters" CD reissue series of the late 90s.

Sorry to hear that. RIP I always enjoyed his "Waxing with Whittle" LPs on Esquire that gathered a lot of his early 50s recordings - fine, concise, intense examples of how modern jazz was received and molded here in Europe.

:D So true ... Happened to me time and again. Though for the most part only in the case of secondhand vinyl that was fairly cheap to start with, and overall I've been able to pass on about 3 quarters of those items without too much fuss, sometimes even with a small profit (which offsets part of the cost of most of what I haven't been able to shift yet ...)

Well, the Lionel Hampton CD clocks in at 79:14 minutes (three 10-inchers!). Couldn't get much more onto a CD than that ... But you are right about couple of the other CDs (Konitz, Pettiford, Schifrin ...) Got my box set today and as King Ubu said it is very nicely produced indeed. The box, the booklet, the cardboard replica LP covers of the individual CDs - very nice, and at that price (2 euros per CD, not much more than the price of a good blank), who is ANYBODY to complain ... ), even discounting those that one invariably already has elsewhere (sometimes it's nice to have them together in such a '"compact" form too). Only drawback(s): When playing the CDs you wil have to refer constantly to the booklet because the sleeves reproduce only the covers (and therefore track listing) of the "primary" LP included on the CD but not of the bonus(es). And to read the back cover liner notes you'd almost need overcorrected reading glasses. So now (sorry for hijacking this thread a little) a couple of my black Vogue Original Masters CDs from the late 90s look like they're becoming redundant as they are duplicated by 100% by the CDs in this box set. Anybody among European forumists out there interested in swapping the following for others from that series that I don't have yet and that are not on the CD box? - Andre Hodeir - The Vogue Sessions - Jimmy Raney - Visits Paris Vol. 1 - Barney Wilen - Tilt - Martial Solal - The Complete Vogue Recordings Vol. 1

Well, there you see how tastes and preferences vary ... I am not a big OP fan and have only relatively few of his records (but need to complete my range of those "Exclusively For My Friends" LP series done for MPS in the 60s if the occasion presents itself) but OTOH I cannot really find much listening PLEASURE in those recordings of you know who that show a tormented, torn soul on off-days when he was below par even by the "standards" of his worse days (and which, if we assume that playing the piano was the major way of expressing himself, very much amount to "public striptease of the soul" and just are painful to hear because somehow I am not sure it always is appropriate to be listening in in situations like this ). In a way I can see the fascination of this kind of "candid" self-expressions but would have found some of these records much more worthy of being "unfit for release" than those sessions (that might have disturbed some "legacy") mentioned in that current BN thread here ... If I had bought a larger number of this kind of BP records I therefore am not sure if they wouldn't have ended up being sold off or traded ... End of O.T.

I must admit you've got a point there ...

@David Ayers: Note I am not specifically referring to the umpteenth alternate take of this or that track where the master take is well known (as well as one or two "current" alternates, maybe). I was thinking of tunes that had never before been released (and maybe not recorded by the artist on any other occasion) or even of entire sessions that had remained in the can (for whatever reasons) and may include music never heard anywhere else in that particular form (again, tunes not recorded elsewhere by this artist or lineups that never got together again in this form anywhere before or after). Speaking of BN, cannot recall the details but wasn't there talk of some Grant Green and Horace Silver sessions somewhere on this forum that would fall into that bracket, for example?

OTOH, there have been recordings where the alternate take released decades later showed that it clearly was rejected because one of the featured stars (maybe the leader who had the final word) did a fluff. But since another soloist blew a superior solo (compared to the master take) it was in order for it to be released later on and we should be grateful for it. Better than those "spliced" takes that were often used in other cases IMO. As for sessions or tunes rejected for "artistic" reasons, isn't this often rather subjective? I.e. a 98% (or even 95%) result may fall short of a 100% perfect result but still is highly welcome and appreciated by diehard fans of the artist/lineup in question (and those probably would regard an 80% result just as highly as a 98% result). AND it could add to the appreciation of the evolution of the artist in question. As for what a discography is supposed to include - largely agreed. Keeping allegedly "dud" (and therefore unissued) sessions under cover would be uncalled for.

I am not so sure about breakdowns, etc. (unless they have already been released). I cannot see they add all that much. Obviously during many studio sessions there must have been breakdowns, so ... In a pinch I could live with it if the umpteenth alternate of well-known tune X from an oft-reissued session were not mentioned in such discographies but what I would hate to see omitted are rejected tunes or sessions that might not even have been released anywhere at a later date (and may not even have been recorded elsewhere at all). I'd find it very interesting and enlightening to see what might have been recorded beond the issued and may just remain buried in the vaults. And this is where I have a hunch that some of those sessions might have been omitted because they just MIGHT "threaten the legacy" ("Hey, it cannot be that word seeps out that our beloved legendary artist X has done a session that was considered a dud and rejected outright!") Though, from what I have seen in other discographies (not BN ), it sometimes can be frustrating to be able to look behind the curtains in that way. If you see that a session includes released tunes that sound like they are mostly run of the mill fare whereas those that are marked "rejected" or "unissued" sound like hot flagwavers then this makes you wonder what kind of clout the A&R men had over the artists at that time ...

I've hardly ever sold anything out of my collection (except a scant few obvious duds and duplicates or items replaced by more compehensive follow-up purchases that duplicate the earlier purchases by 100% or are in other ways more desirable - but even those weren't very many). Maybe this was a mistake because I am running out of shelf space fast both for LPs and CDs but I'd be hard pressed to round up more than, say, 0.5% of the discs I've got if I had to set up a record stall at a garage sale somewhere. But lately I've come to regret a few late 60s/early 70s hard rock/"classic rock" LPs that I sold about 15 years ago because they really never mattered that much to me (they had been chance purchases in my very early collecting days, probably trying to explore some common ground with what my pals commonly listened to). My son (going on 14) lately has taken a keen interest in Metal bands and much to my surprise (spurred by the lineups at certain festivals that he has followed on late-night TV) this even includes early 70s hard rock acts such as Deep Purple, Alice Cooper and others. (Hey, so much for him sneering at me at 50+ for listening to (mostly) 55 to 80 year-old music, and him at not quite 14 starting to dig 30 to 40+-year old music! Now who's listening to older stuff? ) At any rate, I'd have loved to pass on my copy of that "Lord Sutch Meets Heavy Friends" LP and a few other items to him ...

Cary Ginell spells quality in music history writing (though I haven't seen him in this stylistic context often yet ). Wonder if the book might reveal new angles on the Mrs Eckstine/Stan Hasselgard involvement. Some say there seems to be a mystery there ...

Considering the price of the entire box, you are asking for a lot ... The question is unsderstandable (and maybe the liner notes come in English though I'd not bet on it) but would be much more called for in the case of those Japanese reissues that include additional liner/booklet info in additon to reprints (and their Japanese translations) of the orignal album liner notes (particularly since a single Japanese CD sometimes may be selling outrageously for as much as this ENTIRE box ).

Yes, that Aaron Bell stuff is excellent for those "strip"-ish sounds and the atmosphere it brings to life. But how West Coast-ish (fake or not) is that lineup of Seldon Powell, Ray Bryant, Keny Burrell, Eddie Costa and Oliver Jackson? Unless you equate movie scores with West Coast-ish sounds. As for that Kapp LP 'John Towner Williams, I bought it (the Fresh Sound reissue LP) some time agao at a record shop clearance sale for a nominal sum and it is worth THAT, but not more. No desert island fare ... The uptempo tracks are OK and swing nicely but what sucks big time IMO are the strings (particularly in the slow tunes) as they turn the entire arrangements into tear-laden,syrupy molasses. Strings (if payed with bows and if they come in hordes) just have no place in jazz IMO.

Thanks, Brownie, I knew there was a criterion by which they'd be able to justify their selections, but I admit I had not thought of this (particularly since this means that sessions are ripped apart just because a horn sits out on this or that track). Even without looking closer at the individual track titles, it seems like this "quartet" policy (i.e Don Byas + rhythm) would lean heavily towards his balladeering. I'd agree with King Ubu - I have a fair share of this kind of his Blue Star and Vogue recordings on vinyl reissues and this will do for me for now.

No doubt the music is fine (particularly for ballad fans) but upon a first cross-check with the Byas vinyl I have from that period and with other listings (such as the "Bebop (Jazz in Paris) CD linked above) I feel this is an odd compliation. Is it really complete? Where are the "Mohawk Special" and "Peanut Butter Blues" tracks from the Oct. 16, 1946 session, for example? Where is the Jan, 13,. 1947 session? Due to the piecemeal reissue policy of the vinyl era I only have part of his Paris recordings and would have welcomed the opportunity of rounding up everything in one go but am a bit puzzled about this one. Not one to complain, given the price of this box set, but is it complete or isn't it?

Threw away most of the OBIs of the Japanese 12in LP reissues I bought, except those where they showed particular artwork details (of that record or of related records of the same reissue series) or other pertinent info not included on the LP. but those were a small minority. When I started lurking on eBay I couldn't help but notice the "included OBI" selling fetichism, and for a while this made me feel a bit funny about having thrown mine away too. So I understand the thread starter's feelings. But in the end reason won out and I've grown rather tired of these strips, particularly since - as mentioned by others - they are in your way when storing the LPs (only 50s/60s originals/VERY old reissues go into plastic sleeves here) and I figured if I had to fold them to store them inside the sleeve so they wouldn't crumple once you removed and replaced the inner sleeve and the disc more than once they'd probably lose their value in the eyes of the fetichists anyway, so what the heck?? As for ArtSalt's comment, "But it always tells guests that you are serious connoisseur..." - good point, but if they'd want to drool about Japanese items here they'd be welcome to "marvel" at the spines of my Japanese Blue Note, Prestige and "1800 Jazz Discs in Europe" Books (published by Jazz Critique in the late 90s) in the discographies's section of my music boookshelves - enough unintelligibility for them to gape at there!

Soooo .... ... the book arrived today. :tup Had inquired on Monday about when the book would actually be available (as I had a doubt about its avilability before its presentation scheduled for Oct. 19) but Ginza told me the book had arrived and should be shipped ASAP. And here it is today - not bad for speed of shipping from Sweden to Germany. Below are a few impressions of the contents. A very fine book IMO. Almost LP-sized, not likely too many of the pics have been seen anywhere before. Tours of Swedish musicians and popular artists as well as guesting jazz stars, but above all, lots of backstage candids, private party and holiday pics, impressions of what tour life was like in the 50s (that's Lars Gullin on the far right in the pic of the Standard Vanguard headed for that wintery ditch, BTW), including in the rural "outback" of Sweden, lots of anecdotes. etc. The pictures are the main ingredient, of course, and worth the price any time, but a working knowledge of Swedish would be a bonus to make the most of the anecdotes (sometimes hilarious and at any rate an important part of bringing the feeling of the 50s back to life) but even without that, this book really is something to enjoy flipping through again and again (preferably while listening to the music that would go with it ...). As for ordering, no problem with ginza.se. As mentioned above, they shipped within the announced time frame after payment through Paypal and in fact did hold true to their EUROPEAN shipping cost of 99 SEK announced on their site. According to the slip on the box, the total weight of the parcel was some 2.4 kg which according to Swedish postage rates would equal some 300 SEK for shipping throughout Europe. Don't know how they manage to do this cross-subsidizing but it did work out fine here, so full marks to them for their service!

"Fake West Coast Jazz - ha, a funny categorization ... though not that far off the mark. OTOH, seems to speaks a lot for WCJ if this immediately brings up an image and atmosphere that matches the West Coast settings in general ... Speaking of which ... @TTK: No doubt you know the "Wild One" soundtrack recorded by Short Rogers for RCA inside out. But what about the same tunes (plus a few in the same vein but not really part of the original soundtrack) recorded by the "Leith Stevens All Stars" for Decca? (Featuring Rogers, Bernhart, Shank, Cooper, Giuffre, Freeman, Smith and Manne as well as other WCJ stars)? Or the soundtrack of "Hot Rod Rumble" recorded for Liberty by a band including Bud Shank, Bob Cooper, Dave Pell, Pete Candoli, Ray Linn, Frank Rosolino, Herb Geller, Barney Kessel, Claude Williamson, Shelly Manne et al?

Not an easy one to find... I know, but...........................Keep an eye on http://www.tradera.com/finding.mvc/itemlisting?header=true&search=sabu%20martinez&catid=210809 Or better place a search order. Swedish auction site, almost all Swedes can write English. Use Im Translator and if you read no sales abroad, well sent an email and ask why he discriminate you. ( in 99,99% this will be enough ) Happy hunt!!! p.s. I c`nt read or speak not one single word in Swedish. Discriminate?? You're serious? Try that on all those US ebay sellers who state "US sales only" and you'd be in REAL hot water. There's no obligation whatsoever to sell abroad. Even if it is only because the sellers just can't be bothered with finding out about shipping charges. I'd guess it would be a more appropriate idea to ask them VERY POLITELY if they'd consider shipping abroad if you pay the extra shipping cost. Most will be happy to oblige (has worked for me in each and every case on Tradera - but then again I write them in my own Swedish words, putting in a bit of an effort, faults'n all - and most of the time even on US eBay ).