Big Beat Steve

Well, I still feel this thread has something to do with the dwindling number of amazon reseller copies available and that some forumists who did not speak up in this thread took note anyway and were curious enough to grab a copy. Or why else would the supplies be depleted all of a sudden within a few days just NOW? FWIW, George T. Simon briefly mentions the bop activities of the band in his "The Big Bands": As for the deficiencies of "jazz history", I agree with you all the way. It may be due to to a focus on "names that provide a hook for selling" instead of going really deeply into "who else there was" and who has not been coverd before (as this increases the required research exponentially) or maybe due to an approach that prefers to stay on the safe ground of known narratives (of the major names) that are either added to or refuted in order to leave a mark as a writer who "breaks new ground"? I dont know either, but maybe the writers active around here might like to chime in to explain how THEY see the field of their fraternity. I think with enough determination it CAN be done, though. I remember reading about a book focusing specifically on very early (10s/20s) New Orleans jazz orchestras (not combos but full "big bands"). Some 100 of these large orchestras active in and around N.O. were covered, and though NO recordings exist for ANY of them the author managed to fill an entire book with profound contents, as the review I read somewhere confirmed. Anyway ... covering uncharted territory and filling out the blanks left by others may be one reason why I really appreciated the "Before Motown" book. And even THAT one did not capture all the names. There used to be an online photo album of mostly private photos of late 40s/early 50s jazz (or jazz-ish) artists from Detroit, several of whom (mostly white ones) were not mentoned in "Before Motown" at all, including another undocumented big band led by one Elmer (?) Savegan. I downloaded a couple of photographs from that album in 2012 but then ... poof .. all of a sudden the entire website of albums (good-times.webshots.com), including this one, had gone down and all the albums disappeared. According to my notes of the caption of the picture of the Savegan band I downloaded at the time (below) the musicians were identified as follows: Godrons, Elmer (?) Savegan, Pete Richards, Freddie Boldt. ("Who??" But this shows there remains a lot to be explored and told). Looks like this band did their own version of the Four Brothers.

Maybe the keyword would be "unsung hero" (even if of the minor league variety)? A bit like the Tom Talbert orchestra (in a Stan Kenton vein) or the Earle Spencer band (that at least had been graced with thoughtful reissues) or the Gene Roland band? Like most others (I guess), I became aware of the relatively large space devoted to the Jerome band in the "Swing to Bop" book and took note because to me it is those "obscure" acts (obscure to us today, that is) who actually complete in the overall picture. Like I said in this thread before, the one LP by Henry Jerome I found close to 25 years ago was fairly disappointing jazz-wise but as I had not been aware of the band or their other (much later) doings this was probably my own fault, figuring that the early 50s band might have been like the mid-40s band. Apparently the story of THIS part of the band's career had not been documented elsewhere outside "Swing to Bop". Leo Walker's "Big Band Almanac" says this (below): Judging from the above, and as for the "narrative" by "serious jazz historians", maybe it will take someone to write a book or very lengthy essay on "the Sweet bands could also swing" to even up the score? (So, you historians, take note! ) As mentioned elsewhere, I ordered my copy this morning, it already is in the mail - more expensive than a single Mosaic CD as part of a set but to me this is one of those "jump on it when it is around or miss out and don't see it again for who knows how many years" cases - contrary to the usual suspects of the "name" acts the reissues of whom are all over the places all the time. So if in doubt, this is where the priorities lie (mine, anyway). BTW, did you work out a royalty deal with the Jerome family or estate yet? When I checked our amazon.de for this CD last week after you first mentioned it here there were several resellers starting from the 16 EUR price range (some European, some US, some probably listed on other amazon sites too), but when I rechecked earlier this week there were only two left (one of which I bought), and now there are NONE on amazon.de. So there must have been quite a handful who jumped on this item during the last few days. Spurred into action by this thread, I wonder?

You're most welcome to the world of your tastes and to stating them (just like I state mine when I feel like it). Because in the end whatever you consider good or bad reflects just your TASTES so is YOUR business but not an OBJECTIVE criterion to those millions or billions of dedicated music listeners out there. Just a subjective opinion of yours that others may take up or not (FWIW, I DID take up your impressions of the Henry Jerome CD - ordered this morning and looking forward to it - but don't expect me nor anyone to take your impression of that CD to be the FINAL word about its "good" or "bad" qualities ).

You're stuck in an endless loop. "Bad" is not the point. Period. Stylistic preferences are. Period.

It seems to be ... In recent times I've noticed (prescription) aviators (not sunglasses) on the (very) younger set in a couple of cases, even on females, in particular. As for the initial question, after longish searching and comparing (lots of online offers don't appear competent and/or accurate to me) and after having bought my first pairs of progressives at local opticians I ordered a set of progressives online 3-4 years ago and was very satisfied - and then another one last year. No complaints, including after comparisons with what local opticians supply you with. But you can NOT generalize and it is a matter of "trial and error" and you should not expect wonders. FWIW, my prescription for progressives isn't a very complicated one either.

In case you were referring to one of my posts - "style" was meant strictly in the sense of "style of music". Call it type of music, musical (sub-)genre, whatever ... You know what that means and what it implies, then, I guess .... And I'd wager a guess this is what is the decisive factor for most of us with specific musical tastes (no matter how wide-ranging or not) who do not just turn the radio on or click on a playlist for some (more or less) melodic background noise for distraction. So I still cannot see why these criteria should be a bone of contention for anyone at all. Some like music of the type (or style ) A and B much better than X, Y or Z. So this is what they go for. Differnt tastes, different strokes ... the most natural thing in the world. In ALL directions. And AGAIN - there is no '"objective" obligation to listen to styles (!) of music one does not enjoy. Except, of course, as an introductory sampling to see and decide if one likes a given type of music or not and maybe becomes curious enough to explore it further, or OTOH for an occasional (somewhat academic?) "excursion into history". In short, "to each his own ...."

"Bad" (in objective terms) or not is totally beside the point. 70s oomph-oomph Funk just does not. Do. Anything for me. Period. ... ... ROFL!

I wasn't exactly "flummoxed" by that review as my "stock" of OP records is rather spotty so I wouldn't be able to compare, really, but I found it rather unfair too. Ever since I bought it secondhand a few years ago this has been one of my favorite very late-night "jazz to relax to" LPs for quite some time.

But Gheorghe and Soulpope ... Surely the GERMAN Bellaphon license-pressed Prestige reissues must have been available in Austria too at that time. "Steamin'" was on Bellaphon BJS 4054 throughout the second half of the 70s. And during the same period "Cookin'" and "Relaxin'" were available on the Bellaphon BLST 6511 twofer (= Prestige 24001).

+1, FWIW

I won't be excluding it ... BUT ... there is SO MUCH out there that merits listening (to me and to MY PRIMARY and PRIORITIZED tastes and preferences) that I cannot even nearly hope to be able to listen to it all, let alone buy all that music ... In short, stuff like that late Miles is bound to be way down on the to-do-list. Not least of all, because "We Want Miles", that's that yellow album with the huuuuge letters on the cover, right? You don't even begin to know how often I have passed up that one in the record bins (the last time because I had rather been searching for about the only "key" Classic Quintet album I am still missing on my shelves). In short, just like KOB this looks like one of the items that's going to be all over the place at ANY time you see fit to spring for it (contrary to many, many other items by other artists that you either grab NOW or will never see them again - ever - at least not at an affordable price ...). Anyway .... we are getting off the topic of THIS thread ...

It depends .... The later one is a different Miles altogether. As if it was a totally different musician in a totally different style (or different styleS, actually) - compared to the "Classic Quintet", for example. And from what I have heard elsewhere up to now, I have no extreme desire to explore jazz-rock, for example, in any greater depth (though no doubt I will give that "Bitches Brew" chance purchase another try eventually when I feel in the mood). So I doubt that I will miss much, At least not more (much less, in fact ) than ANY of those who feel that jazz started with hard bop and bebop is already "old hat" to them. You know, people don't all explore the same styles of jazz in the SAME depth ... Just like I have never felt the urge to get all excited about 70s funk Johnny Guitar Watson just because I DO like his gutsy 50s R&B. Just because it is the same name does not mean it holds the same stylistic appeal to a given audience. Music enjoyment is not very often about academic name and career analyzing against your real listening preferences, you know. It is about styles and types of music that you prefer, and the field is a very wide one anyway.

Might or must?

I had hesitated about mentioning that (as Pim seems to be more into more (much more?) recent jazz artists). But while we're at it and a bit along these lines (or borderlines of interest?) - I'd recommend Terry Gibbs' autobiography "Good Vibes". A VERY enjoyable summer holiday read! Even if in between the weather might be a bit inclement (heaven forbid, Pim! ) and you wonder if maybe you are caught up in "El Foggo" ...

Coltrane and Mingus may be an indicator, but .. What styles (or periods) of jazz are your favorites? And is e-reader a must?

And as we have both seen yesterday the item you sent to me arrived rather timely too. So yes - I agree with you, USPS has its snags and bugs but for overseas shipments overall they are not worse than their competitors,

Yes, I've had my eye on the Teddy Reig book for some time too but the online prices I've seen are outrageous, particularly for the number of pages that appears rather slim (VERY contrary to the main protagonist of the book ).

I don't know that book at all (but my Miles Davis record collection ends with Sketches of Spain and Seven Steps to Heaven anyway .. excepting an early pressing of Bitches Brew bought very cheaply at a fleamarket a couple of years ago but reserved for "later" more intense listening because the spins I have given it since buying it have not at all found me "in the mood" for that ... ) Anyway ... I can very well imagine books as the one above with such judgments (that may read odd to us later-borns) do exist (and I do have a few such jazz books too) but I'd very much advise against dismissing them outright just because we may consider us blessed with oh so much "hindsight knowledge". Despite their flaws, such "contemporary" books often do serve a purpose to some extent IMO even today in that they show first-hand how events in history were perceived at the time. This does help in understanding history too. If you rely only on latter-day re-writings of history you are beginning to see things through an increasing amount of glasses tinted by other peoples' perceptions that may never have been yours. So do take those earlier source materials with all the grain of salt that is called for but do not dismiss them lightly. Often what was written much later needs to be taken with a fair grain of salt too IMHO because over time certain historical facts tend to be assessed there by criteria of what is considered "commonly acquired wisdom" and/or by people who do have an "agenda" of their own that does not aid in presenting an even-handed picture of that history either.

Talk about digging out ancient topics ... That CD sounds interesting, but the prices on amazon.de - hmmm .... And I wonder why they used such an ill-fitting 70s pic on a 40s music release. If that CD came from an estate linked to Jerome they ought to have had access to more fitting illustrations more evocative of the contents .... BTW and FWIW, I don't find that "It's jazz history" to be an apology or excuse but a reminder to those who (ought to be) in the know that "this band is no big name from the history of jazz but it played its part at the time and it pays to search out the unknowns and explore the often-overlooked niches because THIS is what puts flesh on the bare bones of the music ..." And spot on they are IMO ...

Up - with some edits and additions

Some interesting suggestions (I guess I'll keep an eye on the Szwed, then ...) And how about THIS (below) to complement all of the above for the "early" years? https://www.amazon.com/Miles-Diary-Life-Davis-1947-61/dp/1860741592/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=Miles%27+Diary+Ken+Vail&qid=1561477075&s=gateway&sr=8-1

An interesting document. Thanks for the link! I wonder if I'd care to print out all that for reading ... Though at very first sight I am a bit underwhelmed by the writing style. And quotes do not always seem to be spot-on, either (see end of #501, for ex.).

(Not aimed at you at all but at certain "others":) Ah, so this PD label DOES have some merit going where no other label ever bothers to tread ... Anyway ... the name Gail Madden distinctly rings a bell but I cannot trace where I have read enough of her to make this name stick ... Of the usual suspects of the West Coast Jazz books only the one by Alain Tercinet mentions here in passing as the one who encouraged Mulligan to shuck the piano. Gioia and Gordon do not mention her (at least that's what is evident from the index).

Same problem here (from Germany), though I opened the page on the (US) amazon.com site. Of course when I open the page on amazon.com the site recognizes I am not in the US (I have bought through amazon.com before) but I find this odd. Is it a kindle issue?

"what f.ck the" moments?? Whatchasayin'?