AllenLowe Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) We always talk about the white/Lester Young/tenor sax disciples - but it's equally interesting to me to look at the white alto heirs of Bird, as I think thay are as good and maybe even more distintive: hence: Dave Schildkraut, Joe Maini, Gene Quill, Phil Woods, Lee Konitz, Charlie Mariano - must be more but I work a brain deadening job and am having trouble replacing those lost brain cells - Edited December 28, 2004 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Jim Snidero is very good. He has two CDs out on Fantasy (haven't heard them yet) and I highly recommend his work on Doubletime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Art Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 there's also John La Porta - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Did Ira Sullivan play much alto back in the day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Brown Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Chuck Maures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Hal McKusick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) Bob Mover, Phil Woods, Frank Strozier, Art Pepper. Lou Donaldson? He's not white! Edited December 28, 2004 by doubleM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) Three favorites: Frank Strozier, Lennie Niehaus, Paul Desmond. (Aside to doubleM, neither is Jackie McLean. Methinks Mr. Brown (or is it Mr. White?) was kidding). Edited December 28, 2004 by MartyJazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) Paul Desmond (oops! that'll teach me to leave a thread open for so long before replying) Edited December 28, 2004 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthsj Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) We always talk about the white/Lester Young/tenor sax disciples - but it's equally interesting to me to look at the white alto heirs of Bird, as I think thay are as good and maybe even more distintive: hence: Dave Schildkraut, Joe Maini, Gene Quill, Phil Woods, Lee Konitz, Charlie Mariano - must be more but I work a brain deadening job and am having trouble replacing those lost brain cells - I guess it depends on how you define "heirs of bird"? .... I am almost tempted to say that all alto players are, I think unfortunately, compared one way or another to Bird. So Konitz is always defined as being "on a different path to Bird" or Woods as "from the Bird school" ... Parker's stamp was so profound that this is inevitable, but it also obscures the individual contributions made by these players. Just this past weekend I was listening to one of my newly acquired OJC "replacements" ... "Sugan" (OJC 1841-2) with Phil Woods with Red Garland, recorded in 1957, and I was struck by the fact that I do not recall any real discussion of Woods in my time in this forum. So your decision to start this thread is very welcomed .... Woods has turned out a lot of albums over the years, probably the most ubiquitous alto player of the last fifty years ... but his artistry is still amazing. As I listened to this album I was impressed with his total command of the instrument. So many alto players (I used to be a struggling one myself) seem tentative on their instrument, and this can be part of their appeal (Pepper, for instance), but Woods just let it all hang out there, and with no hesitancy to try new ideas. And he has been doing this for all these years ... time give him his due recognition, I believe. His recent album of music by Quincy Jones was a constant on my CD player this holiday... Also, let's not forget Bud Shank who is now playing with more fire, and a wider range of ideas, than he did fifty years ago! I must admit I follow the accolades given to many current alto players like Kenny Garrett and Steve Coleman, and I am forced to wonder whether the fawning critics ever listen to people like Woods, Shank, Jesse Davis, or recently Dave Gasser (a real iconoclast who deserves much wider recognition). There are some great "oldtimers" out there still making wonderful music. ... but then we don't want to get into the critical argument about whether "newer is better," do we ... ? Garth. Edited December 28, 2004 by garthsj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) Eric Kloss and Herb Geller Edited December 28, 2004 by Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Not one of my favorites but a very fleet motherf****r with a Bird heritage - Richie Cole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) James Spaulding (oops again! It's just been brought to my attention that Spaulding is not white. But he sure looks kinda pale on Night of the Cookers, doncha think?) Edited December 28, 2004 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) Here are some more with varying degrees of Bird influence: Thomas Chapin Gary Foster Joe Maini Barney Wilen Pete Yellin A couple of outcats: Tim Berne John Zorn And here's one Asian for you, Sadao Watanabe. Edited December 28, 2004 by MartyJazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGUD missile Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) Was Bud Shank mentioned? also: Jimmy Ford Randy Lee Dan Higgins Lanny Morgan Med Flory Arnie Lawrence Charlie Mariano Edited December 28, 2004 by SGUD missile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank m Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Johnny Bothwell was a very close disciple of Hodges way back when. I don't have any idea what happened to him. Anybody??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Frank Strozier is not white. If you don't believe it ask him. My family is from Memphis and knew Frank's family. You might even ask Harold Mabern if you happen to catch him performing. Harold is always willing to talk about the Memphis scene when he and Frank and Booker Little, Phineas Newborn, George Coleman, Charles Lloyd, etc. were growing up. As for James Spaulding. That's a joke, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 David Sanborn? Bwa hah ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Iwas actually, initially, thinking of the first post-Parker generation, the guys who felt the most immediate influence, but the more the merrier. And yes, Strozier is black - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Garth: Amen about Phil Woods. What an amazing player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 As for James Spaulding. That's a joke, right? Well...... it is now! See my original post, now edited! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 From this side of the pond - Peter King and Derek Humble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Ted Nash (Lincoln Center altoist) - very excellent work on alto and tenor with the Palmetto clique Dick Oatts - THE premier New York-based alto player (IMO) Charlie Pillow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Maybe I don't get the joke, but neither is Frank Strozier. Bernie McGann of Australia is one hell of a player. An altoist for sure, he's so much his own man that it's hard to compare him with other players of the instrument -- a la Steve Lacy and other soprano saxophonists. If McGann comes from anyone, it might be Sonny Rollins. Ira Sullivan played some alto back when but not a whole lot as I recall. He was, as you might expect, damn good. I think Ira would have sounded damn good playing a Hoover vacuum cleaner. I think he's on alto on several tracks of the ABC-Paramount album he made with the Billy Taylor Trio -- a disc that sadly I haven't seen or listened to for at least 40 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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