nmorin Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 The Sonny Rollins that I own, I almost uniformly love (for some reason I can't quite figure out, the 26 minute Bird medley doesn't knock me out). I have, I believe, all the early studio sessions in which he participated, from the sessions with Babs Gonzales in 1949 to Sonny Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders in 1958. But I don't own one note of music that contains Sonny Rollins from after 1958. I see the RCA box, which starts in 1962; a few albums on Impulse; another break; then a bunch of albums on Milestone. So, what's the deal: Did his playing change after his first break, or did the music change much? Is it as highly regarded as his 1950s work? How about the stuff from 1970s and after? Do folks who love the 1950s stuff usually dig the rest of the ride, too? Am I going to be spending alot of money in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 I actually prefer the post-58 Sonny. I love the RCA box, his recordings with Jim Hall, and his Impulse sides. Don't ask me why, I just do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 His 50's work is more straight ahead. I like it better. His post 'bridge playing' days recordings are more of a fusion influence. I dont really know, I haven't followed up with him after his Saxophone Colossus, and Tenor Madness days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 I actually prefer the post-58 Sonny. I love the RCA box, his recordings with Jim Hall, and his Impulse sides. Don't ask me why, I just do. I wouldn't say that I prefer his '60s work to the '50s output, but I would say that I value both periods very much. And I definitely feel that while his studio material in the '60s varies more in quality than the uniform excellence of the '50s output, his tone and the ferocity of his attack was at its peak AFAIAC in the later decade. I would highly recommend the following '60s recordings: OUR MAN IN JAZZ (RCA Victor), a live date at the Village Gate with Don Cherry, Rollins at this most "out" and tremendously inspired alongside Don Cherry (available on the RCA boxed set) ALFIE (Impulse) - to my mind, this is a neglected masterpiece. This is what jazz is all about. His solos on both takes of the title piece as well as "Street Runner with Child" are fantastic. I keep coming back to this disc time and time again. ON IMPULSE (Impulse) - his variation on "Three Little Words" (it's titled this way, but the melody is never stated) is overwhelming in its creativity and fire. Though a ballad, his long version of "Everything Happens to Me" is similarly gripping. THE BRIDGE (RCA Victor) - his 1st album back after a two year hiatus, there are some great renditions of standards, e.g., "Without a Song", "You Do Something to Me", but the highlights of the album are the two cooking originals, "The Bridge" and "John S." (also available on the RCA box). There's also some great bootleg material, e.g., Denmark 1968 (Moon label) but they are hard to find at this time. I also have a considerable amount of private broadcast material on tape, some of which is fantastic, e.g., trio dates with Max Roach in Europe in '66. All Sonny from 1949 to 1968 is essential IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 There seems to be a lot of polarization of preference regarding the "two Sonnys". IMHO, the main difference is most notably in his sound- it really changed. I'm sure Sangrey can and will detail this. As for my preference, I can't choose- I love the Vanguard sessions, that's some of my favorite Rollins. Colossus, Newk's Time, Volumes 1 and 2. He has really assimilated the bebop language on the late 50s stuff. I'm guessing the "average listener" might consider the 50s stuff to be generally more "accessible" than the 60s stuff. To me, the 60s Sonny has a lot more of the "outness" associated with the avant- garde music of that period combined with his staggering harmonic vocabulary. There seems to be more spontaneous variation in his sound (sort of "phasing") in this period. The RCA sessions are amazing- the long version of 52nd Street Theme is a rhythm changes clinic. Now's the Time w/Herbie is great. If Ever I Would Leave You w/JIm Hall is great. The stuff w/Don Cherry is great. Etc., etc., etc. He, more than any other player, makes me laugh when I listen to him- due to his astonishing imagination, vocabulary and execution as well as his extroverted sense of humor. The Coleman Hawkins session always cracks me up. Count me as a big fan of all Sonny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 OUR MAN IN JAZZ (RCA Victor), a live date at the Village Gate with Don Cherry, Rollins at this most "out" and tremendously inspired alongside Don Cherry (available on the RCA boxed set) Not only Cherry but Bob Cranshaw and Billy Higgins as well. The same group minus Cranshaw and plus Henry Grimes(!) is featured on a Jazz Anthology LP called Live in Europe. Whether or not it has ever been issued on CD is beyond me. I have no idea. clifford thornton--our clifford thornton--was kind enough to send me a copy last year and it's some really great stuff. Easily recommended if you like Our Man in Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 All Sonny from 1949 to 1968 is essential IMO. N, I think this is what it comes down to. I'd agree with Marty's assertion: 1949-68 is essential, and, the more curious you are, the more you'll eventually want it all — studio recordings and bootlegs. There's some magic in every session from that (roughly) two-decade period. No kidding. If remastering (and/or sound reproduction) matters a lot to you, you might want to hold off on the RCA box. (Money-wise, however, it's probably the best bet.) The sound on the box is fine, but not stellar. The somewhat recent individual Japanese BVCJ issues are the ones to get (while expensive) in my opinion. Sonny Meets Hawk is especially shocking (meaning: pleasing) in its clarity and depth — beautifully done. I like all the RCA stuff, Impulse! stuff (even including There Will Never Be Another You), and European Concerts (esp. circa '63). Sure, it's "different" than the earlier Prestige work — more "halting" at times, I suppose — but it's still Sonny ... confronting head-on, as always, his sometimes baffling mastery of the tenor saxophone — from all sorts of angles. It's a fun journey to explore. Just jump in, I guess, wherever your personal tastes seem to dictate. My personal favorite of the RCA stuff is Sonny Meets Hawk, but Now's the Time! is great, too. East Broadway Rundown doesn't gel with everyone, but I'm a fan, particularly of the track "Blessing in Disguise": a great exercise in "musical reductionism" (my own enigmatic term for it) there. Don't forget the 1959 European concerts, too. Some great stuff there, too. Mainly, have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 If I was forced to choose, I'd have to takes his 50's work over his 60's, BUT---- ya gotta love Alfie, The Bridge, and Sonny Meets Hawk! I mean...OUCH, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 ALFIE (Impulse) - to my mind, this is a neglected masterpiece. This is what jazz is all about. His solos on both takes of the title piece as well as "Street Runner with Child" are fantastic. I keep coming back to this disc time and time again. I'll second THAT one. No question - a great album. My only objection is that it's so short. At only 33 minutes, I wonder if there is music from this session lying around collecting dust somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Alfie is my favorite Rollins album. Oliver Nelson could be hit or miss, but on this one he hit the bull's eye. His arrangements just sing. Despite the overwhelming presence of Sonny himself, Phil Woods (in the ensembles), Kenny Burrell and Roger Kellaway especially really make themselves noticed as well. I doubt there are other compositions, but perhaps some alternates may surface one day. We can hope... Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) I love of Rollins' RCA and Impulse! recordings, because he playing is freer than on his "classic" Prestige, Riverside, Contemporary and Blue Note sessions (which are undoubtedly more "accomplished"). Even "What's new", which is often considered sub-par by critics, is a great album in my view. The setting in which he plays really doesn't matter that much, it's his improvisations (longer on the 60's recordings) that are the essence. I love his sax-percussion duo on "What's new". Edited January 25, 2005 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 One which hasn't been mentioned yet, but the standard album from the RCA box is fabulous. Some of the playing is absolutely transcendental - on Autumn Nocturne, Three Little Words and Travellin' Light, for instance, he goes so far out he's somewhere else entirely. An amazing experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 His post 'bridge playing' days recordings are more of a fusion influence. Well, the "fusion" influence really started only after his next break, when he started recording for Milestone in the 1970's All the RCA stuff is very good IMHO, but I strongly advise to get the US Bluebird First Editions CD issue of The Bridge as well, 'cause it sounds much better. Hopefully they will unearth the original tapes of more of the other recordings as well. I had all the single CDs rather scatteredly compiled by Orrin Keepnews and exchanged them for the US box afterwards. I prefer the complete Bridge tracks on one CD (they're spread over two CDs of the box) but the box has a few tracks that never were on single CDs. Either way, I never regretted getting the RCA recordings. The Impulses are great, too, I strongly confirm the recommendation for Alfie, but the quartet album with Ray Bryant is a little underrated IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 I recommend the RCA box as well. Good packaging, good sound, nice booklet, and GREAT music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam hill Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 another vote for Our Man In jazz, which divides some critics, but is an important record, one that made a lot people think Sonny was headed out to a more free territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Alfie is an incredible record. I am also with those who recommend the Bridge and Meets Coleman Hawkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphie_boy Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 I Love East Broadway Run Down and Sonny Meets Halk. I love the Blue Note stuff too. Not too much Newk that I don't like come to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 I have to be in the Newklear mood. When I am a fifties or a sixties date works equally well. I think I like most the stuff NOT on cd that I have heard. . . live Newk is the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 IMHO, the main difference is most notably in his sound- it really changed. I'm sure Sangrey can and will detail this. Not much time to pontificate (besides, I've done it at great length in similar threads ), but the word that comes to mind is "malleable". Not just his tone, but his time, his concepts of structure, damn near every element of his playing seemed to be going about being in multiple places simultaeously, shifting at will, and refusing to be any one thing long enough to become trapped; sometimes not being anywhere concrete and just existing as a shadow (another thing mentioned in other threads). Very metaphysical... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) one of the things that happened after the 1950s was that Sonny, who was used to being the dominant tenor saxophonist in jazz, was thrown for something of a loop by the rise of Coltrane. What followed was a real time of search - some sabbatical, some time on the bridge, head shaving, and than a flirtation with the avant garde. (Paul Bley, by the way, has given a fascinatnig account of the session with Hawk). I love Sonny's 60's work, if not all of it is fully realized, especially the "Our Man in Jazz" material. Peronsally I find The Bridge dull and still-born. But I love the Jazz Standards recordings, which are incredible. All and all this is my favorite Sonny - Edited January 25, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Peronsally I find The Bridge dull and still-born. But I love the Jazz Standards recordings, which are incredible. All and all this is my favorite Sonny - Do you find the originals on THE BRIDGE, i.e., "The Bridge" and "John S." "dull and still-born"? This is some great cooking Sonny IMO. Can't see how any Sonny devotee can hear otherwise. As for the Jazz Standards by which I suppose you mean the NOW'S THE TIME session, a lot of them are great, e.g., "My One and Only Love", "My Ship", "Travelling Light", but the session as a whole is short changed by far too much editing. There are tunes where Sonny barely scratches the surface before there is an abrupt fade out, e.g., "I'll Be Seeing You", "Three Little Words" and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 ... the session as a whole is short changed by far too much editing. There are tunes where Sonny barely scratches the surface before there is an abrupt fade out, e.g., "I'll Be Seeing You", "Three Little Words" and more. You can say that again. I remember when I heard that the RCA box was coming out, and that Orrin Keepnews was (grudgingly) letting it be "complete." I thought — maybe, just maybe — those drastically edited tunes would appear in all their unedited 9-14 minute (I wish) glory. There are still quite a few more tunes that Rollins recorded while with RCA. Now, whether or not they exist anymore on tape, I don't know, but they are listed in discographies. Anyone have any tapes/recordings of Newk's 1963 Tokyo concert? Or the 1965 Half Note concert? Or any other grey market stuff? I have most (but certainly not all) of the "standard" European live recordings from this time, but am always on the lookout for new sounds from this period (1962-68). You can always PM me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Anyone have any tapes/recordings of Newk's 1963 Tokyo concert? Or the 1965 Half Note concert? Or any other grey market stuff? I have most (but certainly not all) of the "standard" European live recordings from this time, but am always on the lookout for new sounds from this period (1962-68). You can always PM me! Yes. I have a copy of a Setp. 19, 1963 performance in Tokyo with Reshid Kmal Ali (tp), Paul Bley (p), Henry Grimes (b), Roy McCurdy (d) and Betty Carter (voc). I also have recording from 1966 at the Half Note with Sonny Rollins (ts), McCoy Tyner (p), Walter Booker (b) and Mickey Roker (d). The sound on the Half Note is rough, but basically listenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) There was an album from ca/ 1964. PLays Jazz Standards. Great stuff, not the edited performances. As for the Bridge, I just find that Sonny sounds constricted on that - Edited January 25, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 In Spring '66 I heard Sonny at the Half Note with Walter Booker and Mickey Roker, but the pianist was Ray Bryant (not McCoy Tyner). Are you sure of that lineup? I am pretty sure, but I will have to pull the disc off the shelf to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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