JLH reissue plans

[Clunky]

Received my copy from amazon.uk a few days ago. Well worth the wait. Thank you JLH

[clifford_thornton]

Thanks, Larry!

Word. I know you're all into playing and stuff, but feel free to, you know, do some criticism if you want... we need more thinkers like you putting pen to paper.

[AllenLowe]

always like his posts - I feel like he thinks so I won't have to.

[clifford_thornton]

I feel like I shouldn't read them before I write anything...

[AllenLowe]

it's ok, just put quotes around everything.

[ep1str0phy]

Ha! It just makes me think of Braxton--I got through about 1.5 volumes of the Tri-Axium writings and thought, "Where the hell does he find time to write all this?" But then that's the point--some folks need to think about what they do as much as they do what they do. I always amazed at how lucid the comments are from the board's musician contingent--aren't we supposed to be laconic and uncommunicative? (Answer: yes, but but only some of the time.)

More on topic, but I gave Roscoe's Sound a spin last night (after spending some time absorbing both Dogon and Before There Was Sound). As much as I love music like the WSQ's albums and the Art Ensemble's ECMs, there's something really special about hearing this music in early, ragged form. One of my friends at Mills (and one of the top Indian percussionists in the world--he was actually one of the West Coast guys they called up for the Miles From India project, which was weird--he'd come to class talking about hanging with Ron Carter and we'd have spent our time merely talking about him) was just getting into out music a couple years back, totally blown away by Roscoe's intensity and work ethic. We were listening to "Theme de Yoyo" and he said, "These guys are such amateurs and virtuosos at the same time..."--and this wasn't an insult--it was more a way of saying that part of what made the music so amazing was how it was able evoke this sense of chaotic looseness despite the sheer technicality of the improvisations and charts.

[AllenLowe]

interesting - no names here, but I just I had a long talk with a fine pianist about a third party, great and very famous jazz instrumentalist, who is a nice person but very intolerant of other musicians who don't have his technical expertise - he tends to miss the feeling for the technique, let us say (which is one reason that, although we have talked about recording together, I may pass). This speaks to larger questions about generations and styles of avant garde jazz playing.

Edited October 27, 2011 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

We were listening to "Theme de Yoyo" and he said, "These guys are such amateurs and virtuosos at the same time..."--and this wasn't an insult--it was more a way of saying that part of what made the music so amazing was how it was able evoke this sense of chaotic looseness despite the sheer technicality of the improvisations and charts.

"Professional/amateur" is ultimately a business criteria, "virtuosity" a personal one. Sometimes they conspire with each other, sometimes against. But whenever one starts getting too comfortable with itself, it's up to the other one to knock it on its ass.

[Larry Kart]

Ha! It just makes me think of Braxton--I got through about 1.5 volumes of the Tri-Axium writings and thought, "Where the hell does he find time to write all this?" But then that's the point--some folks need to think about what they do as much as they do what they do. I always amazed at how lucid the comments are from the board's musician contingent--aren't we supposed to be laconic and uncommunicative? (Answer: yes, but but only some of the time.)

More on topic, but I gave Roscoe's Sound a spin last night (after spending some time absorbing both Dogon and Before There Was Sound). As much as I love music like the WSQ's albums and the Art Ensemble's ECMs, there's something really special about hearing this music in early, ragged form. One of my friends at Mills (and one of the top Indian percussionists in the world--he was actually one of the West Coast guys they called up for the Miles From India project, which was weird--he'd come to class talking about hanging with Ron Carter and we'd have spent our time merely talking about him) was just getting into out music a couple years back, totally blown away by Roscoe's intensity and work ethic. We were listening to "Theme de Yoyo" and he said, "These guys are such amateurs and virtuosos at the same time..."--and this wasn't an insult--it was more a way of saying that part of what made the music so amazing was how it was able evoke this sense of chaotic looseness despite the sheer technicality of the improvisations and charts.

I know what you and the Indian percussionist are referring to about "Sound," but having heard that music at the time, and in the context of live performances by those musicians, I never felt any amatuerishness or even "chaotic looseness" there; rather, the sheer will, skill and precision involved seemed striking in itself and by comparison to a lot of other music. This I think is especially true of "Ornette" and "The Little Suite" -- not a wasted motion anywhere (that I can hear). A possible exception would be Maurice McIntyre's solo on "Sound," which does have something of a jumping off a cliff quality, but given what he achieves....

[ep1str0phy]

Interestingly, my first response to my friend's statement was defensive--and deep fans of the music can cite any number of instances where so-called "avant jazz" cats rendered performances that were/are as much about "virtuosity" as anything else. Naturally, it's difficult (for open-minded people) to witness anything on the level of Evan Parker's circular breathing control, the harmonic concept on Interstellar Space, or Roscoe after the 80's and not think about the sheer mechanics involved, among other things. One of the great "natural" occurrences on the Mills campus back when I was attending (and I'd treat it as a natural thing, since it happened with striking regularity) was Roscoe's morning warm-up--hours of scales and circular breathing that were totally and legitimately technical practice. Actually, the value of practice was probably the greatest lesson he imparted to me (and I seldom fail to make my three hours a day).

That being said--and this might have something to do with Allen or Jim's posts above--I think part of creative mastery in the jazz idiom has to do with technical control in both "negative" and "positive" senses--or, rather, truly great (and not just "good") musicians know how to turn off selected mechanical and intellectual facilities and let intuition and feel take over. Sometimes activating the off switch results in what might otherwise be considered clams or screw ups--and this is what I meant talking about Wadud and Phillip's jarring lack of synchronicity on certain parts "Dogon A.D."--but those mistakes happen--and correctness doesn't happen--because other stuff does. (I mean, listen to Wadud's tone on "Dogon"--or the way Hemphill just soars over that craziness.)

I think it's interesting that "Theme de Yoyo" sounds like it does, considering Lester Bowie was musical director for an R&B band (and Melvin Jackson's Funky Skull is a genuine testament to just how tight and punchy the AACM horns could be--and then there's Brass Fantasy...). The horns on "Yoyo" are crazy asynchronous--it sounds like a four square church meeting at times--and the time feel of the band is waaay out of the pocket in spots. But just like "Dogon A.D." is not really about the meter, I don't think something like "Theme de Yoyo" is ultimately about the fact that the AEC is playing an R&B tune.

Rather, I think the R&B element of "Yoyo" is incidental to the fact that it's just a brutally good, "free" sounding performance. If the AEC wanted to nail those horn parts or lock in the groove, they easily could have--but the important parts of the performance wind up being the same things that are important in, say, Ayler (energy, forward motion, vocalistic qualities, the use of rhythmic disjunction as a way of ratcheting up tension). Honestly, I think "Yoyo" would have sucked had it been all about "playing the groove," and the AEC recognized this--the genius move is that they discovered that you didn't need to sound like Ayler, Trane, Ornette, or Cecil to play "free"--and that you could, in fact, sound like something as potentially whack as a funk band. Ultimately, the amateurishness is built into the concept, because a "professional" performance would draw your attention away from what's really great about the music.

[AllenLowe]

this is a big topic - I think immediately of a lot of talks I had with Johnny Carisi, whom I considered one of the original avant gardists, but who had no tolerance for much music post-Ornette, which he thought was undisciplined and amateurish. Same with a number of old beboppers, from Al Haig on (Haig thought Cecil Taylor was from another planet; he may have been right); Jamil Nasser gave me a long talk one day on how the avant garde had ruined jazz and scared away the audience. My ears tell me that most of the "free" musicians I admire have various levels of technical expertise; as Dick Katz once said, there is a difference between technique and facility (he was talking about Oscar Peterson). But advanced technique can easily be used in the service of a kind of performance that feigns a certain technical looseness. I was lucky enough to play onstage with Hemphill (and Roswell Rudd, who has a similar power); these guys are pros in very sense of the word, from reading to performing to ensemble ears.

And go to youtube and punch in Anthony Braxton, who has technique to spare on some of his solo pieces (also check out his version of Donna Lee, Lee Konitz nothwithstanding)..

and don't forget that, over the years, people accused Earl Hines of "sloppiness." A lot of what is heard as technical weakness, I hear as a direct offshoot of a basic, post-African, tonal and rhythmic flexibility.

Edited October 28, 2011 by AllenLowe

[paul secor]

As far as an r&b element in free jazz, there was also Archie Shepp's "Mama Too Tight". recorded in 1966.

I hear r&b - though less obviously - in some of Albert Ayler's early recordings.

Edited October 28, 2011 by paul secor

[jazzbo]

I like the choice of cello on this recording. Allows for a more flexible tonal palette for the music than just a bass would. And this is well taken advantage of!

The blues colors of this session make it very accessible and also helps to give it a more focused emotional expression.

[David Ayers]

There's a good version of Dogon, and inded a whole session worth of cello trio material, on Live from the New Music Cafe, on Music and Arts label.

[colinmce]

Morton and Cook suggest Hemphill/Wadoud are an extension of Dolphy/Carter which I think is an interesting thought. I'm always fascinated to hear people's theories on Dolphy's Influence; there has to be something there but I think it's hard to discern which is what makes him such an interesting figure to me.

[AllenLowe]

well, Julius was definitely affected by Dolphy's sound, though Julius wasn't a real chord-change guy like Dolphy (who did, however, more open things as well). I think Dolphy's pervasive influence was emotional, that deep deep feeling he got; Julius had a lot of that "cry" in his sound and also liked to jump around the intervals like Dolphy did.

[Head Man]

My copy of the new release finally arrived from DustyGroove this morning and what a treat it is! I've lived with this album for over 30 years but listening to this release was like hearing it for the first time again. It 'sounds' marvellous with every instrument so clearly defined that you can even hear the cello strings twanging on the track "Dogon A.D." This really does set a high standard for re-issues. Thank you VERY much for putting this out Jonathan and I look forward to hearing whatever releases you have planned for the future.

[jonathanhorwich]

Hey Head Man, thank you so so much for your kind words. This is what makes such reissues worth it. Otherwise why bother. Anyway, so glad you are enjoying it.

[cih]

thanks all, for pointing this out

it appears to be back in stock today (Amazon uk) (though the price seems to rise each time I look! - glad I ordered earlier on the off chance)

[Stefan Wood]

Got mine from da bastids and like the Bill Dixon reissue, this is another stellar reissue!

[aurelio]

Fresh Air on NPR discussed the release today.

Julius Hemphill's 'Dogon A.D.' Still A Revelation 40 Years On

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/04/142017187/julius-hemphills-dogon-a-d-still-a-revelation-40-years-on?ft=1&f=13

[Head Man]

Fresh Air on NPR discussed the release today.

Julius Hemphill's 'Dogon A.D.' Still A Revelation 40 Years On

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/04/142017187/julius-hemphills-dogon-a-d-still-a-revelation-40-years-on?ft=1&f=13

A very nice tribute. Thanks for giving the link, aurelio.

[romualdo]

Fresh Air on NPR discussed the release today.

Julius Hemphill's 'Dogon A.D.' Still A Revelation 40 Years On

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/04/142017187/julius-hemphills-dogon-a-d-still-a-revelation-40-years-on?ft=1&f=13

Thanks for the link

Still waiting for my copy (its on the way) - actually I've never heard the LP so all of this publicity (on the board) & other reviews are giving me great expectations

Can't wait to hear it!

[Guy Berger]

STOOPID question. I sat on my butt and haven't purchased this yet? Are all 1,500 copies sold already?!?! Which vendors still have it in stock?

[Chuck Nessa]

City Hall says they have it in stock.