Sonny Rollins: A Night at the Village Vanguard (Tone Poet -- 3 LPs)

[JSngry]

If they kept it intact for the LP, I get that. But I've listened to the LP since 1974, so been there, done that. Same with the brown-bag LPs, spent a long time with those also. No interest in going backwards in format selection.

For the CD, that logic goes out the window from the very beginning with the banter before "Old Devil Moon" (but I love the banter, all of it, which is why it was disappointing to find some of it missing)) that was NOT on the OG LP. And then at the end of the OG tracks, there's still two "new" tracks, so, again, so much for the LP "effect".

And the two takes of "Get Happy"...when hear in recording order, it makes sense. On this new version, they're back to bak and...why?

So...I'm not the target for this release, that would be the LP buyers. But they were nice enough to accomodate us fringe CD buyers, and they got my money. And it sounds GREAT!!!!

But there's a definitive package still waiting to be made, especially if there's more between-cut speaking to be had. People talk about "it's like you were really there", well OG running order IS like you were really there! So are announcements and band chatter!

What would be uber-sweet would be if somewhere somehow they find more that the two recordings from the matinee. That band was really hittin' it on their own terms!

 

 

[david weiss]

On 5/1/2024 at 2:58 PM, JSngry said:

The new tapes in recording order and full announcements would have a definitive package.

And would have made the RVG obsolete.

Yup. That would have been ideal. 

On 5/1/2024 at 5:50 PM, JSngry said:

If they kept it intact for the LP, I get that. But I've listened to the LP since 1974, so been there, done that. Same with the brown-bag LPs, spent a long time with those also. No interest in going backwards in format selection.

For the CD, that logic goes out the window from the very beginning with the banter before "Old Devil Moon" (but I love the banter, all of it, which is why it was disappointing to find some of it missing)) that was NOT on the OG LP. And then at the end of the OG tracks, there's still two "new" tracks, so, again, so much for the LP "effect".

And the two takes of "Get Happy"...when hear in recording order, it makes sense. On this new version, they're back to bak and...why?

So...I'm not the target for this release, that would be the LP buyers. But they were nice enough to accomodate us fringe CD buyers, and they got my money. And it sounds GREAT!!!!

But there's a definitive package still waiting to be made, especially if there's more between-cut speaking to be had. People talk about "it's like you were really there", well OG running order IS like you were really there! So are announcements and band chatter!

What would be uber-sweet would be if somewhere somehow they find more that the two recordings from the matinee. That band was really hittin' it on their own terms!

 

 

Of course I loved the album when I first got it but what really opened my ears to how incredible this all was was when I bought the Japanese Volume 2 and Volume 3 albums on sale at Tower Records when I was in college. The first side of Volume 3 with All the Things You Are, Woodyn' You and Four was life changing for me and put these recordings in a whole new light. The RVG in the end, now that I have absorbed everything individually for years, is more fun for me now since it is in order and has all the announcements. 

[porcy62]

Anyway the Tone Poet sounds better then originals and later Japanese reissues, king included, I have. 

[AllenLowe]

OK so I just got this… And now I don't have access to my RVG copy of this which was redone by van Gelder, and I like this very much but I don't think the sound is any better than the RVG mastering. Wouldn't Rudy have used his original tapes to remaster? I do wonder why the hell he did at it 7.5 IPs but that's another matter. Also another strange thing to me is that it's still not really well EQ'd. I do wonder about mastering engineers and what they do and don't hear. But still it's great to have it all in one place.

Edited May 15, 2024 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

Apparently the deck they brought into the club was 7.5. or maybe it was a tape conservation thing. Either way, Rudy immediately  took those tapes back to his house and transferred them all to 15, and that's what's been used ever since.

Or so they say.

As for the sound, every recording made at the Vanguard I've ever heard has a muffled sound in some form or fashion. It's not at all a "live" room. But this was the first attempt recording there, right?

Hold on to that RVG, though. In this case, recording order matters!

[Late]

Listening to this (2024 packaging) again this evening. The sound is so much more present—Rollins' horn in particular. I first encountered this music on the two McMaster CDs from the late 80's, and got used to the sound there. This new package is a gift (I think) to listeners who are encountering the music for the very first time (though young/new listeners are probably listening to it through Spotify. 😉) At any rate, it's fun to go through the music all over again, as if for the first time. Yes, Uncle Don's not here, but other than that—as close as one can get to a definitive package, I'd say. And preserved for future generations!👍

[Brad]

I know this is a real minor point but I like that this cd and the Blue Train masters were issued in a jewel case rather than a digipak as the latter always seems to get damaged.

[Late]

54 minutes ago, Brad said:

I know this is a real minor point but I like that this cd and the Blue Train masters were issued in a jewel case rather than a digipak as the latter always seems to get damaged.

Very much agreed.

I had to look up the difference between 15 ips (inches per second) and 7.5 ips. Here's what Google told me:

 

"15 IPS (inches per second) is the professional standard, offering superior high-frequency response, lower noise, and less "wow and flutter" compared to 7.5 IPS, making it ideal for mastering and high-fidelity recording. 7.5 IPS offers good, "vintage" sound quality with better low-end, lower tape costs, and longer recording times, often preferred for home recording, or a warmer colored tone."

[Dan Gould]

From the start of my radio career when we mastered to reel, I simply understood 15 inches per second is the tape equivalent of higher resolution digital:  More tape = more data, essentially.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

From the start of my radio career when we mastered to reel, I simply understood 15 inches per second is the tape equivalent of higher resolution digital:  More tape = more data, essentially.

Technically, a slower tape speed would = more tape per second of music recorded.

[JSngry]

I don't think so...15 inches of tape is more than 7.5 inches of tape, right?

A slower tape speed gives you more total capacity, but that's because you're using less tape per song (or whatever).

[Dan Gould]

What Jim said.

KB is arguing that 7.5 inches of tape is more tape than 15 inches of tape.

When you see 911 recordings the tapes move super slow - because they are maximizing capacity of reels / efficiency of recording calls.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

2 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Technically, a slower tape speed would = more tape per second of music recorded.

I think you meant a faster tape speed would = more tape/second.

[Chuck Nessa]

More music less tape.