Coltrane in Finland

[medjuck]

Just got an e-mail from The Lost Recordings:  John Coltrane:  LIVE IN FINLAND 1961 • 1962.  Is this really previously unreleased?

[jazzbo]

Gambit released a cd with a 1961 concert, and it appeared in a multi cd set.

https://www.discogs.com/release/2527819-John-Coltrane-Quintet-Featuring-Eric-Dolphy-The-1961-Helsinki-Concert

https://www.discogs.com/master/1475753-John-Coltrane-European-Tour-1961

And there were several unofficial releases of a 1962 concert:

https://www.discogs.com/master/2521384-John-Coltrane-Live-At-Kulttuuritalo-Helsinki-Finland-November-20-1962

https://www.discogs.com/release/20674114-John-Coltrane-Helsinki-1962

Edited November 5 by jazzbo

[hbbfam]

So far this appears to only be LP?  

[jazzbo]

Yes.

[colinmce]

On 11/5/2025 at 5:26 AM, jazzbo said:

Gambit released a cd with a 1961 concert, and it appeared in a multi cd set.

https://www.discogs.com/release/2527819-John-Coltrane-Quintet-Featuring-Eric-Dolphy-The-1961-Helsinki-Concert

https://www.discogs.com/master/1475753-John-Coltrane-European-Tour-1961

And there were several unofficial releases of a 1962 concert:

https://www.discogs.com/master/2521384-John-Coltrane-Live-At-Kulttuuritalo-Helsinki-Finland-November-20-1962

https://www.discogs.com/release/20674114-John-Coltrane-Helsinki-1962

Helsinki 1962 also appeared on this companion to the 1961 Chante du Monde box:

https://www.discogs.com/master/1475755-John-Coltrane-European-Tour-1962

[Late]

💣💥

[clifford_thornton]

Looks like there is a fair amount of overlap between these Chant du Monde boxes and the Pablo box (which I have and love). It would be nice to have this stuff without buying part of it twice!

[JSngry]

But some of the Pablo box is mislabelled! Some is actually from Birdland?

[romualdo]

found this on the Lost Recordings website

[John L]

15 hours ago, JSngry said:

But some of the Pablo box is mislabelled! Some is actually from Birdland?

David Wild lists a corrected discography for the Pablo box on his website:

Track	Title	Box Set Dates	Previous Issue	Correct Dates
1/1	Impressions	Paris 11/18/61		Stockholm 11/23/61 Set #2
1/2	My Favorite Things	Paris 11/18/61	Rhino R2-71255 The Last Giant	Stockholm 11/23/61 Set #2
1/3	Blue Trane	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
1/4	Naima	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
1/5	Impressions	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
1/6	My Favorite Things	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
2/1	Mr. P.C.	Hamburg 11/25/61		Birdland NYC 2/9/62
2/2	Miles' Mode	Hamburg 11/25/61		Birdland NYC 2/9/62
2/3	My Favorite Things	Hamburg 11/25/61		Birdland NYC 2/9/62
2/4	Norman Granz Intro	Paris 11/17/62		OK Set #2
2/5	Bye Bye Blackbird	Paris 11/17/62		OK Set #2
2/6	The Inch Worm	Paris 11/17/62	2308-217-2 Paris Concert	OK Set #2
2/7	Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye	Paris 11/17/62	2308-217-2 Paris Concert	OK Set #2
3/1	Mr. P.C.	Paris 11/17/62		OK set #1
3/2	My Favorite Things	Paris 11/17/62		Possibly Paris 63 1101
3/3	The Inch Worm	Paris 11/17/62		Stockholm 11/19/62 #2
3/4	Mr. P.C.	Paris 11/17/62		Stockholm 11/19/62 #1
3/5	Naima	Stockholm 11/19/62		OK Set #1
4/1	Traneing In	Stockholm 11/19/62	2308-227 Bye Bye Blackbird	OK Set #1
4/2	Bye Bye Blackbird	Stockholm 11/19/62	2308-227 Bye Bye Blackbird	OK Set #2
4/3	Impressions	Stockholm 11/19/62		OK Set #2
4/4	Swedish Introduction	Stockholm 10/22/63		OK
4/5	Traneing In	Stockholm 10/22/63		OK
4/6	Mr. P.C.	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/1	Naima	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/2	The Promise	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/3	Spiritual	Stockholm 10/22/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
5/4	Impressions	Stockholm 10/22/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
5/5	I Want To Talk About You	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/6	My Favorite Things	Stockholm 10/22/63		OK
6/1	Mr. P.C.	Paris 11/1/63	2308-217-2 Paris Concert	Probably correct
6/2	Lonnie's Lament	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
6/3	Naima	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
6/4	Chasin' The Trane	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
6/5	My Favorite Things	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/1	Afro Blue	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/2	Cousin Mary	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/3	I Want To Talk About You	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/4	Impressions	Stuttgart 11/4/63		Unknown (not Stuttgart)

2 hours ago, romualdo said:

found this on the Lost Recordings website

Thanks.  I look forward to hearing the sonic upgrade.  

[clifford_thornton]

good lord... I knew about the Birdland aspect, but not the other messiness.

[Late]

1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

good lord... I knew about the Birdland aspect, but not the other messiness.

I had the same thought. I don't own the Pablo box, but...

[Pim]

I do own it so some of it wasn’t recorded in Europe but at Birdland? Wow that’s messy.

[clifford_thornton]

Yup, first few cuts on disc two.

[John L]

10 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

good lord... I knew about the Birdland aspect, but not the other messiness.

The worst thing about it is that Pablo (1) did not consult with expert Coltrane discographers like Wild before issuing the set and (2) did not make corrections even after they were confronted with convincing evidence of the mistakes.  

[JSngry]

Was Keepnews involved in that?

[John L]

11 hours ago, JSngry said:

Was Keepnews involved in that?

As I recall, he wasn't.  But I am not sure.  Eric Miller was the one who put it together, and I believe he was defiant in the face of criticism.  

Edited December 22 by John L

[Ken Dryden]

When I wrote liner notes for an Oscar Peterson compilation on Pablo, I found two errors for the track where Oscar Peterson took over from Duke Ellington for a song. Both the date and the drummer were incorrect, Eric Miller disagreed and he was a bit stubborn, then I provided the relevant page from Timmer’s Ellingtonia discography and the citation from Mercer Ellington’s bio of Duke that cited him firing Bobby Durham and replacing him with Chris Columbus. Eric Miller relented and made the edits.

Thanks for sharing the update provided by David Wild.

[John L]

Interesting.  For the case of the Pablo Box, I guess that it might have been too difficult for Eric Miller to admit that his "European Tour" box contained some music that wasn't even recorded in Europe.   

[Pim]

In understand that’s difficult but… it’s kind of inevitable isn’t it? What a bizarre story. 

[bertrand]

On 12/22/2025 at 8:24 AM, John L said:

As I recall, he wasn't.  But I am not sure.  Eric Miller was the one who put it together, and I believe he was defiant in the face of criticism.  

I remember the whole story. Not Fantasy's finest hour; they reacted like jerks.

[Chris Hanna]

All of this info is also in the John Coltrane Reference, to which Wild is a contributor. One thing, though: the last “Impressions” (7/4 in the Wild table quoted below) is actually thought to be from the Berlin show (see JC Ref, pp 696-698).

As best I can tell, the only “new” piece of music on this release is the 1962 show’s “I want to talk about you”. It has been known of (see JC Ref) but this may be the first hearing. Everything else has been made available by various releases through the years, for both 61 and 62 Helsinki shows.

On 12/21/2025 at 9:48 AM, John L said:

David Wild lists a corrected discography for the Pablo box on his website:

Track	Title	Box Set Dates	Previous Issue	Correct Dates
1/1	Impressions	Paris 11/18/61		Stockholm 11/23/61 Set #2
1/2	My Favorite Things	Paris 11/18/61	Rhino R2-71255 The Last Giant	Stockholm 11/23/61 Set #2
1/3	Blue Trane	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
1/4	Naima	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
1/5	Impressions	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
1/6	My Favorite Things	Stockholm 11/23/61		OK
2/1	Mr. P.C.	Hamburg 11/25/61		Birdland NYC 2/9/62
2/2	Miles' Mode	Hamburg 11/25/61		Birdland NYC 2/9/62
2/3	My Favorite Things	Hamburg 11/25/61		Birdland NYC 2/9/62
2/4	Norman Granz Intro	Paris 11/17/62		OK Set #2
2/5	Bye Bye Blackbird	Paris 11/17/62		OK Set #2
2/6	The Inch Worm	Paris 11/17/62	2308-217-2 Paris Concert	OK Set #2
2/7	Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye	Paris 11/17/62	2308-217-2 Paris Concert	OK Set #2
3/1	Mr. P.C.	Paris 11/17/62		OK set #1
3/2	My Favorite Things	Paris 11/17/62		Possibly Paris 63 1101
3/3	The Inch Worm	Paris 11/17/62		Stockholm 11/19/62 #2
3/4	Mr. P.C.	Paris 11/17/62		Stockholm 11/19/62 #1
3/5	Naima	Stockholm 11/19/62		OK Set #1
4/1	Traneing In	Stockholm 11/19/62	2308-227 Bye Bye Blackbird	OK Set #1
4/2	Bye Bye Blackbird	Stockholm 11/19/62	2308-227 Bye Bye Blackbird	OK Set #2
4/3	Impressions	Stockholm 11/19/62		OK Set #2
4/4	Swedish Introduction	Stockholm 10/22/63		OK
4/5	Traneing In	Stockholm 10/22/63		OK
4/6	Mr. P.C.	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/1	Naima	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/2	The Promise	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/3	Spiritual	Stockholm 10/22/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
5/4	Impressions	Stockholm 10/22/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
5/5	I Want To Talk About You	Stockholm 10/22/63	2308-222-2 The European Tour	OK
5/6	My Favorite Things	Stockholm 10/22/63		OK
6/1	Mr. P.C.	Paris 11/1/63	2308-217-2 Paris Concert	Probably correct
6/2	Lonnie's Lament	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
6/3	Naima	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
6/4	Chasin' The Trane	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
6/5	My Favorite Things	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/1	Afro Blue	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/2	Cousin Mary	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/3	I Want To Talk About You	Berlin 11/2/63	2620-101 Afro Blue Impressions	OK
7/4	Impressions	Stuttgart 11/4/63		Unknown (not Stuttgart)

Thanks.  I look forward to hearing the sonic upgrade.