Are Jazz CDs making a comeback?

[GA Russell]

1 hour ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

Not sure I follow your logic here.  Yes, the fact that an album is available for streaming today does not ensure it will be available tomorrow.  But if it is streaming, it's almost certainly also available for download too.  Which makes it exactly the same as a cd: get it while you can because it may go out of print at any time.

But everyone prefers a professionally made CD to a homemade CDr, right?

Yes, you can put your download onto a portable hard drive, and then burn it whenever necessary; but I am not referring to people who would do that sort of thing.  I am thinking of the typical adult who bought LPs before 1990 and CDs after.  He has stopped buying CDs.  And apparently (I'm guessing) he stopped buying CDs about the time that the BMG Record Club went out of business.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, GA Russell said:

But everyone prefers a professionally made CD to a homemade CDr, right?

Wrong?

It depends.

[Dub Modal]

13 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

FWIW, the argument that today's younger music fans aren't willing to buy equipment and have an actual stereo setup doesn't hold water when you consider that they are also the generation that has supposedly caused a resurgence in LPs.

I remember that report from a couple of years ago that cited half of LP buyers didn't have a turntable to play them on. Maybe that trend has changed a little since, but I'd be surprised if CDs ever catch back on domestically enough for a spike in demand for players. I'd be all for it, but seems like a long shot. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

8 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

I remember that report from a couple of years ago that cited half of LP buyers didn't have a turntable to play them on. Maybe that trend has changed a little since, but I'd be surprised if CDs ever catch back on domestically enough for a spike in demand for players. I'd be all for it, but seems like a long shot. 

I think you are right. I just saw a news report that stated (how they got the number, we'll never know) that 37% of young LP buyers are using them as art decorating their walls.

[Stonewall15]

I still think the convenience of CDs and CDrs will enhance their comeback. They have no deterioration or noise like LPs, are portable enabling trading and require much smaller storage space. With a CD recorder any LP can be turned into a CDr and the LP can either be permanently stored or disposed of. One issue is that CDs and CDrs are great for listening to during driving but new cars do not offer players anymore.   

[paulfromcamden]

49 minutes ago, Stonewall15 said:

I still think the convenience of CDs and CDrs will enhance their comeback. They have no deterioration or noise like LPs, are portable enabling trading and require much smaller storage space. With a CD recorder any LP can be turned into a CDr and the LP can either be permanently stored or disposed of. One issue is that CDs and CDrs are great for listening to during driving but new cars do not offer players anymore.   

CDRs certainly deteriorate. Not through use but the dyes aren't stable over the longterm.

[Daniel A]

Downloads were mentioned several times above, but streaming only once or twice. In this country, even among people with a strong interest in music (including jazz), streaming has virtually replaced both CDs and downloads since more than ten years.

It's true that the albums of more obscure artists might come and go, or may never have been available on these platforms. But the availability of millions of albums for a fixed fee has caused "inflation" for digital music. It's just not something that people are prepared to pay that much for (which off course started already with the rise of downloading around the turn of the millenium). It seems as if this has also affected how many people look at the value of these albums/artists/tracks that come and go - it doesn't seem to bother them too much.

Edited Tuesday at 09:48 PM by Daniel A

[Eric]

32 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Downloads were mentioned several times above, but streaming only once or twice. In this country, even among people with a strong interest in music (including jazz), streaming has virtually replaced both CDs and downloads since more than ten years.

It's true that the albums of more obscure artists might come and go, or may never have been available on these platforms. But the availability of millions of albums for a fixed fee has caused "inflation" for digital music. It's just not something that people are prepared to pay that much for (which off course started already with the rise of downloading around the turn of the millenium). It seems as if this has also affected how many people look at the value of these albums/artists/tracks that come and go - it doesn't seem to bother them too much.

Well you guys kinda took an early liking to streaming ... 😎

[Kevin Bresnahan]

17 hours ago, paulfromcamden said:

CDRs certainly deteriorate. Not through use but the dyes aren't stable over the longterm.

Not all CDrs deteriorate. Some do, some don't. It depends on the manufacturer. I have a few CDrs that are 30 years old and still play.

[mikeweil]

12 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Not all CDrs deteriorate. Some do, some don't. It depends on the manufacturer. I have a few CDrs that are 30 years old and still play.

That's my experience, too.

[Niko]

When I see people at a record store who are getting so excited they can buy, say, Led Zeppelin albums on CD for only 3 or 4 Euro, these  are usually people under 25... People above 50 own these albums already if they wish to and they can also afford them on LP... And I do see these young people with some regularity... But I doubt that selling CDs to this demographic is by itself profitable enough to keep the shop open ... And there's a good chance that they will switch to LPs (or stop boycotting spotify) when they are over 30... What drives these people to CDs is only the price..

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, mikeweil said:

That's my experience, too.

Same.

[Stonewall15]

I also have CDrs that are over 30 years old with no deterioration. In fact I have never experienced any deterioration in any CDs or CDrs.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

3 hours ago, Stonewall15 said:

I also have CDrs that are over 30 years old with no deterioration. In fact I have never experienced any deterioration in any CDs or CDrs.

I have had one CD and several CDrs stop playing. The CDrs that failed were not burned by myself. They were sold as a regular CDs and I got a CDrs instead.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

Things have a way of happening if data resides on a single cd. It gets broken or lost or stolen or deteriorates, or burns up in a fire, etc.  1 TB micro-sd cards are a good way to prevent cd loss. Rip the files and copy them to the sd card.  That size card will handle most people's collection.  OK maybe not some people here...  They go for $70 to $100 now that some genius slapped big tariffs on them but they are still pretty cheap insurance.

Edited 19 hours ago by Stompin at the Savoy

[paulfromcamden]

21 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Not all CDrs deteriorate. Some do, some don't. It depends on the manufacturer. I have a few CDrs that are 30 years old and still play.

Sure. Me too. And others that are a decade old that are unplayable. Some dyes degrade more slowly. Storage conditions (temp and humidity) also contribute to how soon they fail.

They might last 10 years, 30, 50 but CDRs are inherently unstable and ultimately will all fail at some point. No one is going to be playing them a hundred years from now. Whether that's a problem or not depends on what's on them I guess.

Plenty of papers on this published by the Library of Congress, NIST and so on.

Edited 10 hours ago by paulfromcamden
.

[Big Beat Steve]

Basically I've also found that some brands of CD-R blanks last almost forever, some don't. Only problem ... you only find out afterwards (after years) which ones will last long and longer ...
I still have quite a few CD-Rs burnt by (or for) me in the second half of the 90s that still play OK. Whereas others have failed after some 10 years. 

But to add another aspect to this discussion of CD-Rs becoming unplayable:
As part of my haul from the estate of a deceased collector (metioned elsewhere - e.g in the jaz book thread) I recently took home a huge bunch of (real) CDs but also about 150 CD-Rs burnt for this chap by a fellow collector in (I guess) the years between 2005 and 2010, and very professionally done, including the inlays and printed labels. (At first sight they look like one of these cheapo PD label CDs.) BUT ... the labels on the earlier CD-Rs have started to peel off and are impossible to press back on - and just as impossible to remove. And it is these CD-Rs (about the initial 50 or so) of which many make nastily distorted noises when playing, as if the data are beginning to deteriorate (and some skip and jump to and fro or stop all of a sudden). But it seems the detached labels are the culprits. Don't know if it is the out-of-balance of the detached labels or the label glue penetrating into the data layer but the damage seems to be caused there. Because those where the labels are becoming detached round the edges fail most often. Whereas those among the later ones (when he seemed to have changed to a diffferent, glossier self-printed label that adheres perfectly well) that I've listened to so far do play perfectly well.
At any rate, I'm seeing myself burning backup CD-Rs of the bunch before long. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

RIP 'em first.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

The problem with ripping or duplicating a CD-R with a label unbalancing it is that most duplication processes do it at speeds >>1X, which exacerbates the problem.

[JSngry]

No idea what the science is, but I have corrected innumerable glitchy CDr s (and regular CDs) simply by ripping them on my PC. Not always, but mostly 

Where you hit a wall is if there's any irregularity, even a pinhole, in the reflective surface on the top of the disc. That's game over. Aftermarket self-applied labels are especially insidious that way. Avoid at all costs!