Big Beat Steve

Thanks. That sounds like a definite answer. A pity anyway.

Thanks to both of you. @Niko: It was definitely the book/large-sized folio by John S. Wilson that I saw in the 70s. I checked it online and the late 60s/ealry 70s "zeitgeist" artwork/layout matches what I remember. Besides, the sources I found online say this was published by some US Information Services agency (which makes it a prime candidate for being displayed at an Amerika Haus, doesn't it?). The book by Dave Dexter was published prior to this, and maybe John S. Wilson picked up some information from there. Interesting to learn about the "Tenor Saxophone Styles" sheet music collection. The sources of this collection probably remain a mystery. @mhatta: Your link (to a page from the "Jazz where it came from ..." book) is exactly the one that I found again the other day as well. I do remember the layout, i.e. the page shown there is what I saw in the 70s (the "Hi Heckler" sheet music reprint I saw defintely was not a full-page facsimile). Seems like we are turning in circles right now.

At one of my visits to the library of the local Amerika Haus (when these still existed here) during my later schol days in the second half of the 70s I browsed through some folio on the history of jazz that was on the shelves there and included a facsimile reprint of a tune called "Hi Heckler" credited to Lester Young as the composer. (Checking online now, this folio must have been "Jazz - Where it came from ..." by John S. Wilson.) The amusing name of that tune stuck in my memory and I told myself that some day I was going to get the recording. But I never saw it anywhere on any LP or CD through the decades. Internet information also is scanty, and one concrete reference that I found elsewhere was in the Lester Young bio by Lewis Porter (from 2005) that included the tune in the list of existing solo transcriptins, but with a mention "from no known recording". Which may explain things but is odd - how would this have been transcribed, then? Now the other day I received a copy of the "Lestorian Notes" discography and bibliography of Lester Young by Piet Koster and Harm Mombach (published in 1998) and checked there too. But no trace of "Hi Heckler" there either ... I don't know, of course, to what degree this discography still is totally up to date so I am wondering ... Given that "new" airshots, live recordings or jam session documents surface all the time from all areas of jazz, is there any Prez expert who happens to know if there is indeed a surviving recording of that mysterious tune anywhere after all or if there definitely is no such thing and never was? Thanks in advance.

If this was so then that footage would have been here somewhere in between (as per the link I provided in an earlier reply). Does this appear plausible? 61 28. November 1970 Stone the Crows - Danger Zone Colosseum - Take Me Back To Doomsday Fotheringay - Too Much Of Nothing Muddy Waters - Blow Wind Blow Muddy Waters - Honey Bee Colosseum - Tanglewood '63 Stone The Crows - Love 74

No, never - but the cover seems to be a "Concert Hall" product. So another Jazztone/Concert Hall Society combination.

The Fletcher Henderson alumini LP and the Cootie & Rex LP that were mentioned in post-war swing-style big bands thread started by Rabshakeh, for example, have been reissued by Fresh Sound on vinyl in the 80s. And AFAIK the rights to Dial (that according to various sources Jazztone acquired in the 50s) apparently have long since passed on elsewhere. Which is why Spotlite reissued so much in the 70s and 80s.

That's two of the four I was talking about ...

Amazing that Jazztone still holds such mysteries to even seasoned collectors today. Maybe the perspective and awareness were rather different over here because the label was advertised and promoted EXTENSIVELY throughout the printed press over here (even in magazines not even remotely dealing with music) as a mail-order source in the 50s and probably was a fairly affordable godsend to many interested in this music. These Jazztones usually are not overly expensive over here whenever one comes up, and even in case I already have the music elsewhere I pick them up just for the period fun of it. The most common one (relatively speaking) is the "Jazztone Sampler" (catalog no. J-SPEC 100) that figured in those ads in the 50s and apparently was the one 10" LP sent out to interested parties as an introductory offer, even if they did not take out a subscription. I have the U.S., German, French and Swiss releases of this one just to document the little differences. As for the labels that were part of Jazztone, at the start of this thread about 20 years ago Brownie mentioned "Guilde du Jazz" for the French releases (which also had the piano player logo and label but all-French texts on the labels and sleeves and - contrary to Wikipedia - does not look like a simple distribution deal but rather like the actual French version of Jazztone). Sometimes a French variation of the "Guilde du Jazz" releases existed on the "Club National du Disque" label as well. And then there also was the "Concert Hall Society" label that was not limited to classical music (cf. Wikipedia) but also encroached in the Jazztone field of operations. Sometimes you get both Jazztone and CHS pressings with the same release number but different letter prefixes, and sometimes you see Jazztone vinyl inside a CHS sleeve. Basically Jazztone reissued recordings from various labels ranging from Dial to then-contemporary Vanguard releases. And there were a fair share of sessions made specifically for that label (so the originals were on Jazztone). Contrary to what others said in this thread years ago, I cannot really find the pressing quality that bad for a budget label. At least several notches above Crown and even later reissue labels such as Ajax, Ajazz etc. (Maybe they did not stand up that well to user abuse, but I guess most were bought by non-discophiles so this may explain that). BTW, there were numerous Jazztone EPs as well. A miniature vignette of the generic Jazztone EP sleeve (some of their EPs had specific sleeves) can be seen in Optatio's avatar. As for the record club thing (as an extension of book clubs), AFAIK this continued for quite a while AFTER the Jazztone heyday. Both the USA and the UK must have been rather strong on this. I remember seeing ads for some of these clubs in magazines even throughout the 70s (but their - limited and MOR - selections advertised really would have turned me off). So no big surprise about the existence of these clubs here at all. @TTK: The "Modern Moods" cover art (on the 10 and 12" versions of this LP) was indeed the generic cover art (in different colors) Jazztone used for a long time right from the start (with the J-SPEC100 Jazztone Sampler).

According to the Web, it was on ARD from 1968 to 70. But you did not miss anything. For some reason the name of the show stuck in my memory, and years later (after I had started collecting, including Merseybeat and "all the rest"), I remembered it again, and the name stuck even more because it was sooo perfectly, absolutely "square" (play on words not really intended but unavoidable ).

"Betty's Beat-Box-Haus"! I very dimly remember having caught glimpses of this show on TV here and there as a kid (without really understanding or even digging it - I was not even 10 years old then) and this discussion of the "Beat Club" brought back these memories. But no - Betty's house was no competition for the Beat Club - never!

Evidently at a time when this TV show was no longer geared towards "Beat" music in the actual sense of the word. By the time they had switched to color (January 1970) the producers aimed more and more towards niche and more avantgarde tastes in pop music (even within rock, I'd say). Amazing that the bigwigs in German TV allowed the show to continue in that format until December 1972. Hardly imaginable in today's TV, regardless of what niche and specialist tastes in rock music you'd think of ... I wonder if "unreleased footage" indeed means this was not broadcast at the time. Almost 10 minutes for one act would be fairly long indeed for a 60-minute show that usually accommodated 9 to 10 acts (plus emcee talk) within each show. According to the setlist of the individual shows in the below link there is no mention of any Tony Willams appearance. No doubt it would be interesting to know which show this had been intended for and when exactly in 1970 it was recorded. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat-Club/Episodenliste#1970_-_Staffel_6

Very interesting ... Pity that this particular tune is not on the vinyl of that concert of 27 August 1953 released on Duke LP D-1022. About 20 years ago a gentlemen (from whom I had bought a large stack of jazz magazines that he had subscribed to since his teen days in 1952) offered me a reel-to-reel tape recording of that concert of the 1953 tour that he had attended in Berlin (where he lived at the time). I politely declined because I have never owned a tape recorder or player and would not really have known what to do with it (and besides, I already owned the Duke LP of the concert at that time). But maybe I ought to have grabbed it after all? At any rate, the stack of jazz magazines also included the concert program from that very tour. Nice ... I cannot recall having ever caught a TV showing of the German music movie that this Kenton sequence was used in. Although I now see I have the flyer that was available to moviegoers at the movie theaters. Obviously another of those "boy wants to succeed in music and win the heart of his girl" flicks with the semi-plot strung together by music of all sorts ...

Good questions. The "Teen Rock" is really danceable indeed, but rather for those (whoever they were) who prefer to take it fairly easy. Certainly not a platter to "cut loose". I cannot quite make out the target group either. But as for the rock'n'roll phenomenon in the 50s, from all the information I've examined through the years (including many period documents), the US teenagers in the USA weren't all "duck-tailed teenager hoodlums" 😁 but there remained a fairly sizable proportion of young ones who kept their music consumption comparatively "clean" and "wholesome" (and whatever other tags the industry hung on the artists in question - even well before Fabian, Bobby Rydell and the rest). If you've seen the "Cry Baby" movie (regardless of how caricaturesque it overall is) I'd venture a guess the portrayal of the "clean-cut" upper class teens doing the Bunny Hop in that movie wasn't that far off the mark. This sort of teens WERE there as well. I find this kind of records fairly entertaining as one sign of the times and of R'n'R as seen by the jazz and pop industry (but I would not usually invest huge sums in them). This entire subject is a long tell-tale story of how the majors as well as established pro musicians of the pre-R'n'R pop market (who suddenly found themselves out in the cold) tried to cash in on the newly-emerged teen market of the 50s anyway but very often failed to really grasp its essence ... OTOH ... acccording to Wikipedia the early 60s Twist LP by Ronn Metcalfe that I listed was a monster hit in Canada. Coincidence ... I scored an original of this a couple of weeks ago but had hesitated to list it here. It's quite nice, somewhat modernized straight-ahead swing (FWIW Down Beat actually enthused about it and gave it 4 stars), but honestly, lumping in the four George Williams tunes written for this LP along with the "Classics" (as per the album title) is quite a stretch. And among these, cheekily listing "Empty Jug" and "Endville Chorus" (actually very thinly disguised reworkings "Little Brown Jug" and "Anvil Chorus") as his own compositions ... ho hum ... Prior to this LP, George Wiliams had done a Jimmie Lunceford tribute LP for RCA (4 1/2 stars by Down Beat). And there were more, but they are a different story again ....

Are you referring to the "Band That Never Was" rehearsal sessions that were released on Spotlite? I find them very interesting and indeed something where you wonder what this "could have been if only ... ". But I've always been curious about obscurities like these that fill the gaps of jazz history (like the recordings by Henry Jerome and others in that vein). As for the "Swingin' Friends" LP I mentioned (which was a pickup band for this one session), just listen in here and see for yourself: FWIW, I just noticed some fairly "rave" reviews of it on the internet (on Allmusic and Jazzwax) so maybe this is one of those that need a couple of relistens to be fully appreciated? But at any rate, this is OT here.

Actually you just have to dig a bit deeper than in the case of Kenton. What I have by Herman fizzles out in the mid-60s (for various reasons) but I have found that you cannot really go wrong with any of those from the period before that. I haven't regretted adding a few more since my post on page 1 of this thread (more than 1 year ago already! ), including some LPs that usually seem to be under the radar: - Blues Groove (Capitol, 1956) - Woody Herman Sextet at the Roundtable (Roulette, 1959) - Woody's Big Band Goodies (Philips, 1965) - at first sight the track listing looks like rehashes of past successes but his new treatment is a gas IMO) And among the live and non-commercial recordings (but beware! It's on CD! ), one fairly intriguing item that I picked up more or less by coincience is "Woody Herman Live at Peacock Lane Hollywood " (13 Jan. 1958) featuring Bill Harris (Jazz Hour JH-1015). It adds another layer to his "official" LPs.

This topic continues to be interesting ... Though there is some bias here becasue I guess I have 95% of his (studio) output up to c. 1960 (plus a fair share of his live recordings). Which does not mean I can stomach all of it all the time, but I derive pleasure from almost all of it at some point in time ... Though I had to let some of it grow on me, such as the "Kenton/Wagner" album (which I incidentally took the plunge after JSangrey's "plug" for it here - though easy enough to do at the giveaway price for the Creative World reissue. But I found it surprisingly accessible). I can see the point of TTK's filing system in this case. Kenton can quite well belong there .... Re- some of the other names mentioned here, by sheer coincidence I bought a US Brunswick original of the below record masterminded by Gene Roland (recorded in 1963) at a local record shop today. https://www.discogs.com/master/638699-Gene-Roland-Swingin-Friends While it is OK for post-war big band jazz listening, I find it comparatively bland and predictable in some respects. I will have to consciously listen to Roland's charts for the Kenton band again, but at any rate this one is a far cry from the "The Band That Never Was" session. So ...what's in a name, after all? OTOH, contrary to what others here seem to feel, I for one do enjoy the "Rugolo Plays Kenton" album (Mercury) quite a bit. Probably for the "fun" and "non-ponderous" aspect that TTK mentions. And finally, seeing the controversy always surrounding Kenton, the series title of the below CD released a couple of years ago in a series of big band music for the dancers will probably provoke horse laughs from some around here: 😁 https://www.discogs.com/release/24236729-Stan-Kenton-And-His-Orchestra-Swing-Artistry

I wonder how her Short Story track would fare in a blindfold test. "Newly discovered exercise by Tristano" etc.?

Could it be that the photo he is referring to is the photo at the bottom of page 1 of his bio on his homepage? https://www.billcrowbass.com/bio-1.html (I am not on Facebook, and at any rate there are so many Bill Crows on FB)

Amazing. Neither Jepsen nor Bruyninckx list this artist or the record. So it will have escaped reissuers as well.

In the same manner, even No. 2 is far too limiting. A bebop pianist need not have played with Charlie Parker ever and yet can be a bebop pianist in accordance with the way he played jazz. It can of course be argued that all those pianists who played with Charlie Parker (trying to figure in his countless rhythm sections here ) must have been bebop pianists one way or another but does this, by implication, mean that the opposite can be true too? I.e. "if you haven't played with Charlie Parker you cannot be a bebop pianist"? .

Yes, interesting (and sad in a way). But if Claude Thornhill was that far down by 1958 when Zwerin gigged with him, by comparison Boyd Raeburn (also well down compared to his 40s Progressive Jazz fame) had fared comparatively better because he had just "gone commercial". His LPs for Columbia in the later 50s ("Dance Spectacular", "Fraternity Rush" and "Teen Rock") are listenable but very mainstreamy and comparatively undistinguished by jazz standards, despite a near-all star-ish lineup. I am not familiar with the Claude Thornhill LPs from the later 50s (on Columbia and Design) but from the description on Discogs I gather they are broadly in the same category, probably leaning even more towards easy listening. From the later Boyd Raeburn items, I have his "Teen Rock" LP (Columbia CL 1073, telltale period cover - see below) and have filed it in a "big bands trying to stay with the rockin' times" corner of my collection along with these: - Dan Terry "Teen Age Dance Party" (Columbia/Harmony) - Ray Conniff "Dance The Bop" (Columbia/Harmony, released as "Rockin The Bop, Boppin' The Rock" on Philips in Europe) - Ronn Metcalfe "Twistin' At The Woodchoppers' Ball" (Barry) - "The Twist with Ray Anthony" (Capitol) Amusing late 50s/early 60s big bands if taken with a relaxed smile and not too seriously ...

Would never have imagined this might be considered a "ghost" band. But going strictly by the name on the covers, there is something to it ...

Omnipresent in the jazz bins in the record shops over here for quite a while in the 80s too. According to the Discogs listing some of the tracks are longer than the typical 78rpm limit (and would just about have fitted on a 12"). https://www.discogs.com/master/580388-Various-I-Remember-Bebop Somehow I remember this 2-LP set has been discussed (or at least mentioned approvingly) here in a previous thread. But who will be able to locate that thread?

Just rushed through the track listing. A HUGE lot of pre-war blues. Maybe too much indeed for the average collector of today (provided they can stomach that many jug and hokum tracks which I think still are an acquired taste for many blues purists), particularly those who are in the market for Bear Family boxes and who do NOT already have a lot of it on Document reissues. What is there from the post-war era looks like it relies heavily on Sam Phillips-produced items that he leased to other labels (Modern, Chess, etc.). Again something that many fans of this music may already have (to a more or less large extent) on other reissues. Still an interesting set - not least of all for those tracks of "white men singing them blues" sprinkled in between. 😁 Basically something I'd hate to have to pass up but ...