Herbie Hancock

[mikeweil]

Didn't remember there were such big differences between the edits and the Sleeping Giant mix - will have to ask that old friend if he still has the LP.

I remember reading about the US Warner box set in down beat.

I wasn't aware there was a single from the Mandishi tracks before you mentioned it - the Bruyninckx disco doesn't list it - same with the Spook soundtrack.

[Degiorgio]

I wasn't aware there was a single from the Mandishi tracks before you mentioned it

my error - i was referring to Crossings 7" being made up from material from Crossings LP...

hehe... how confusing can this get??

its not a HUGELY different mix but worth having.. I can see why they planned to release it as a single - its the funkiest most accessible section of the album... kind of like that MILES DAVIS: "Holly-wuud" 7" promo from the same year... (similar in concept for a single - not in sound)

KD

Edited March 31, 2005 by Degiorgio

[Degiorgio]

the Bruyninckx disco doesn't list it - same with the Spook soundtrack.

I have been searching for evidence of an official commercial release of The Spook from 1973 since I first heard about this film. Not any of my usual record dealers in Europe or Japan have ever turned one up for me. I was told many times it doesn't exist. Rod is the first person who I've come across who seems to have an original...

Edited March 31, 2005 by Degiorgio

[Kari S]

Hi Kirk D - nice to know a fellow Herbie buff/nut. You sure seem to know your stuff...

A multi-disc box set of the Mwandishi/early 70's material with various alt takes and live performances is something that's always been a dream of mine, wonder if it'll ever realize. By the way wasn't there talks that a box set of all of Herbie's Montreux performances would be released? (similar to the McLaughlin and Miles sets)

Did you know that there was also another group with Joe Henderson before HH formed the Mwandishi band. Bob Blumenthal writes in his liner notes to the RvG reissue of "The Prisoner" that the band comprised of Hancock, Joe Henderson, Garnett Brown, Johnny Coles, Buster Williams and Tootie Heath. Henderson also played some flute. The material they played was apparently a mixture of Herbie's earlier Blue Note stuff (Eye Of The Hurricane, Maiden Voyage) and songs from "Fat Albert Rotunda" and "The Prisoner". Even though there are bootlegs even from the Mwandishi period, this earlier period seems to be completely missing. Somebody must've been there and recorded it though, I just know it...

[Degiorgio]

Even though there are bootlegs even from the Mwandishi period, this earlier period seems to be completely missing. Somebody must've been there and recorded it though, I just know it...

completely undocumented by recordings is the transition from this line-up to the early Mwandishi Band before they got into the space-age stuff. DownBeat interviewed Herbie after a week long stint at the Cellar Door and the line-up is: Eddie Henderson, Julian Priester, Bennie Maupin, Buster Williams & Billy Hart... but they only mention material from FAT ALBERT ROTUNDA - and they are listed under their regular names - without the Swahili prefixes. The jump from stuff like Wiggle Waggle to Wandering Spirit Song is mind-boggling.

KD

Edited April 1, 2005 by Degiorgio

[Alon Marcus]

I enjoy listening to everything Herbie did on electronic instruments. I like the bass lines and those little funky grooves and melodies that he lays in huge amounts one above the other. For me this stuff is always interesting to listen to. The albums that I like from this period are

Mr. Hands

Fat Albert Rotunda

Crossings

Thrust

I also like the acoustic versions for some of his songs which appear on this album

Fingerpainting: The Music of Herbie Hancock

[Alon Marcus]

BTW: What do you think about his albums Dis is da Drum and Future2Future? They are not from 1968-1978 but continue the same line.

[Big Wheel]

Only heard Future 2 Future once through, in the library, but was pleasantly surprised by it. I think Laswell really makes this one a success. Definitely lots of electronic stuff going on, but it's still rooted in the blues.

[Rooster_Ties]

BTW: What do you think about his albums Dis is da Drum...

I like "Dis is da Drum" quite a bit.

(Warning to Chuck: I'm about to qualify my remarks ).

I do really like it, but I also think the disc runs out of steam a bit, the farther one gets into it. For instance, I'm betting as much as I've listened to the disc, probably 1/3rd of the times I've put it on, I'll stop it about half-way through, in order to put something else on.

But the first two or three or four tunes are really great, Wallace Roney's contributions in particular. (I'd have to give it a spin to talk specifically about where I think things get off track --- haven't listened to it in 4-6 months.)

Edited April 1, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Kari S]

completely undocumented by recordings is the transition from this line-up to the early Mwandishi Band before they got into the space-age stuff. DownBeat interviewed Herbie after a week long stint at the Cellar Door...

What year is this? Early 70's? (Fat Albert was rec'd in 1969) So Herbie and his troops actually went first into funk, then to the spaced out stuff? Intriguing!

[Degiorgio]

the Downbeat issue is early 1971 - so I would guess the Cellar Door gigs and the interview took place in 1970 as Downbeat usually had a delay in getting articles to copy. The article mentions Dizzy Gillespie sitting in the aisle and Bill Cosby at the bottom of some stairs as the club was so packed!

KD

[Degiorgio]

I enjoy listening to everything Herbie did on electronic instruments. I like the bass lines and those little funky grooves and melodies that he lays in huge amounts one above the other. For me this stuff is always interesting to listen to.

me too. I like pretty much everything Herbie did up to and including FUTURE SHOCK.

I know some have slated Herbie for his disco era and ridiculed his vocoder usage but this is the period that I first heard. I was heavily into disco and tracks like I Thought It Was You, You Bet Your Love and Tell Everybody always stood out as having something a bit 'deeper' than most other disco cuts. So this led me to investigate the albums and tracks like COME RUNNING TO ME from SUNLIGHT, TRUST ME from FEETS DON'T FAIL ME NOW and JUST AROUND THE CORNER from MR. HANDS were the tracks that got me into jazz. (Herbie's solo on the latter track is still one of my fave e.piano solo's ever).

BTW: What do you think about his albums Dis is da Drum and Future2Future?

Haven't really listened to Dis Is Da Drum. Heard Future2Future a couple of times - and know some of the guest artists involved but I was disappointed. The concept of getting Herbie together with the current crop of electronic dance producers sounds good in theory but I'm not sure it worked out that well.

KD

Edited April 1, 2005 by Degiorgio

[mikeweil]

Basically I like Dis Is Da Drum and Future 2 Future, only that the drum machine beats kill any rhythmic subtleties in the music. I'd wish for an alternate version without them - the Hip Hop audience sure wouldn't buy this, however.

[mikeweil]

Mr. Hands

The varied personnel on this make me think it is a collection of leftovers and abandoned projects.

There is one track - Shiftless Suffle - by the Headhunters band with Harvey Mason, an absolute killer track! A shame it wasn't added to the Headhunters CD as a bonus track. There is an early live bootleg of the band with that track.

[Sundog]

Thanks to everyone who has posted. A lot of very good/interesting information in this thread. It's been a education. Really enjoying Flood and Thrust. I need to spend some time with the WB material. However my initial cursory listening tells me I will be enjoying this material for a long time to come.

[Kari S]

-Re: vocoder and disco stuff-

The version of "I Thought It Was You" on "Sunlight" is probably one of the most sunniest tunes of the 70's, even though it's the cheesiest Love Boat groove ever. But the killer version is on the Japanese release "Direct Step" - Herbie jams with the vocoder for about 15 mins.!

-Re: "Dis Is Da Drum", "Future 2 Future"-

IMO "DiDD" has maybe only a couple of worthwhile tracks, with trademark Hancock acoustic piano soloing on top of the beats.

Future 2 Future could've been so much more, but at it's current state it just... isn't working. Kind of like a lame 21st Century version of "Future Shock" (which I didn't like either, though). I blame Laswell for this, who supposedly re-edited and remixed most of the material to its current form without even consulting Hancock. The Live DVD however, is a different story altogether. Herbie's acoustic piano playing over the grooves is absolutely mind-blowing.

[Degiorgio]

great.. the backing music is nutz... if that's Herbie... well.... somebody *really* needs to find the masters to this...

KD

[Big Al]

Managed to get a copy of FLOOD from a very generous Board member, and it is more than the shit: it is downright DIRRRRRTY!!!! Had to clean the room after it was all over, it got so greeeeeeazy in there!

Been spinning Fat Albert Rotunda nonstop the past few daze. Fat, funky, and greeeeeazy, this is the record I was hoping The Prisoner would’ve been when I saw the lineup on THAT record. Fat Albert has some of my favorite Joe Henderson solos, especially on the alto flute on “Tell Me a Bedtime Story.” And then there’s “Jessica,” as lovely a free-form ballad as I’ve ever heard! Pity this lineup didn’t record further together.

As far as Mwandishi and Crossings go, I tend to respect them for the direction Herbie was taking more than I actually listen to them. I think I listened to them both only once, and while the experience was an enjoyable one (laying on the floor with my head between both speakers; now THAT was a trip!), I rarely felt the urge to ever listen to them again. When I did, my interest waned quickly with each tune (the lone exception being the ultra-groovy “Ostinato”). Music like that makes me wish I could actually see it being performed; something just seems to get lost in the translation when it’s just listening to it from a record.

[Guy Berger]

I was listening to the Warner Brothers set over the past few days, and came to the conclusion that Priester's "Wandering Spirit Song" is this group's crowning achievement in the studio. (I haven't heard any of the live stuff.) Some incredible stuff going on there.

Guy

[Guy Berger]

Question - and maybe this is the wrong thread, but who cares - why is Bennie Maupin so lightly featured on Sextant relative to Mwandishi and Crossings? He appears on the ensembles, but aside from "Hornets" (a brief bass clarinet solo and the kazoo) he takes a backseat role.

[CJ Shearn]

Good question, I really have no idea. He is prominently featured on Headhunters though which makes it odd he was just used for colors on "Sextant", since he had a big part of those 2 previous records.

[bgugg]

Listening a lot of Hancock those last days, I've especially appreciated Tokyo1987 and Montreux 1988 with Michael Brecker (never issued on LP or CD, I guess). Unfortunately, the sound is not that good

Is there any Hancock - Brecker from this period and with a decent sound ?

Thanks in advance ...

[JETman]

Listening a lot of Hancock those last days, I've especially appreciated Tokyo1987 and Montreux 1988 with Michael Brecker (never issued on LP or CD, I guess). Unfortunately, the sound is not that good

Is there any Hancock - Brecker from this period and with a decent sound ?

Thanks in advance ...

http://www.allmusic.com/album/directions-in-music-live-at-massey-hall-mw0000659736

[Gheorghe]

Hancock is great in everything he does. Recently I listened again to the first VSOP, that double album from 1976 with the acoustic quintet, the sextet with Maupin and Buster Williams, and the funky stuff with Wah Wah Watson. Great stuff, a journey through more than 10 years of Hancock´s musical history.

[king ubu]

Hancock is great in everything he does. Recently I listened again to the first VSOP, that double album from 1976 with the acoustic quintet, the sextet with Maupin and Buster Williams, and the funky stuff with Wah Wah Watson. Great stuff, a journey through more than 10 years of Hancock´s musical history.

that's a fun one!