montg Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Has anyone had a chance to compare these with the K2s (or other remasters)? I'm not a real big fan of the K2s (the bass just doesn't seems as defined as the RVGs for Blue Note), so I'm hoping the Prestige RVGs are an improvement. Miles Davis Quintet Relaxin' With [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8104-2 Kenny Dorham Quiet Kenny [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8108-2 Modern Jazz Quartet Django [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8110-2 March 21, 2006 John Coltrane Lush Life [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8103-2 Kenny Burrell/John Coltrane Kenny Burrell&John Coltrane [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8107-2 Gene Ammons Boss Tenor [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8102-2 $11.98 Eric Dolphy Out There [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8101-2 $11.98 Red Garland Red Garland's Piano [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8109-2 $11.98 Coleman Hawkins The Hawk Relaxes [Rudy Van Gelder Remaster] PRCD-8106-2 $11.98 Sonny Rollins Saxophone Colossus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 I just ordered the Hawkins and the Dorham. I'm intrigued to hear them. . . will probably be a week to ten days though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Lon, oddly enough these things are at Waterloo for $8.99. I only picked up the Hawkins since it was the only one I didn't have, so I can't A/B. Sounded great to my ears though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 I added direct links to CDUniverse to the original post, for those interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesbro Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 I doubt the SACD of Eric Dolphy's 'Out there' can be topped. That is one of the best sounding CDs in my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichL Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Hi. Out of curiosity I bought the RVG of "Out there" to compare to the SACD version. The first thing I noticed was that the RVG was transferred at a higher volume level than the SACD. It took awhile to adjust the levels. I only compared one track " Sketch Of Melba." The RVG is quite good. Details come through clearly and instrumental color is good. I like the mix better on the RVG than the SACD. On this track the flute is center and the cello (bass) is not hard right, but panned a little bit more toward the center. The SACD is panned hard left and hard right. Sound wise the SACD, to my ears, has the advantage. The instrumental timber is fuller and richer. You can hear more resonance from the cello on the SACD, the RVG is drier sounding. The flute sounds confined on the RVG, but on the SACD it sounds freer less constrained. I will probably pick up some in the RVG series I don't already have a good version of. Michael P.S. I only compared the SACD layer not the RB layer to the RVG. th are I doubt the SACD of Eric Dolphy's 'Out there' can be topped. That is one of the best sounding CDs in my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) Mike, cool, good deal at Waterloo. I don't often get over to Waterloo. . . and things aren't usually that cheap. (I hate the way they have that store set up too). I would have saved about a dollar twenty in comparison to the cduniverse order. I can live with that! That Hawkins is such a great session! I have it but want the RVG sound on that and the Dorham. Edited March 24, 2006 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Because I have the K2 of "Saxophone Colossus" and an SACD of "Relaxin'", I opted not to pick these up in the RVG edition. In fact, the only ones I already owned were the two Coltranes ("Lush Life" and "Kenny Burell and..."). The new editions sound much better than the old OJCs, of course. I also got the other items (the Dorham, the Hawkins, the Ammons, the Dolphy and the Garland), none of which I owned. All are WONDERFUL sessions, well worth getting if you haven't already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesbro Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 I like the mix better on the RVG than the SACD. On this track the flute is center and the cello (bass) is not hard right, but panned a little bit more toward the center. The SACD is panned hard left and hard right. Sound wise the SACD, to my ears, has the advantage. Wait...are you saying the new RVG is a remix? That's a whole different ball game than just remastering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichL Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 I like the mix better on the RVG than the SACD. On this track the flute is center and the cello (bass) is not hard right, but panned a little bit more toward the center. The SACD is panned hard left and hard right. Sound wise the SACD, to my ears, has the advantage. Wait...are you saying the new RVG is a remix? That's a whole different ball game than just remastering Hi bluesbro: Well thats what I heard on the RVG as compared to the SACD. I guess that means a "remix." Not certain what the proper technical term is for this. Perhaps it is panned far to the the center. RVG did this on the Blue Note RVG series too. The first BN RVGs sounded almost mono, later on in the series he moderated this practice and didn't pann so narrowly. I guess it shouldn't be too big a shock to folks who have collected RVGs in the past. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD45 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Curious thing with these: the back covers of these have been designed to emulate the look of Blue Note CD releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 I noticed that about the design myself. It's pretty funny that they chose to copy "the Blue Note look"... it's not like Blue Note's artwork is worth copying in the CD era, unless you want "Fixed cover to follow" on it. BTW, I highly doubt RVG could "remix" these dates. They all direct to two track or even mono. The most he could do is narrow or spread the stereo sound. "Mix" isn't quite the word for merely varying the stereo spread. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 The most he could do is narrow or spread the stereo sound. "Mix" isn't quite the word for merely varying the stereo spread. Kevin Need to spend a bit of time in a good studio Kevin. With a 2 track tape (even mono) and a good board coupled with a bank of "racked gadgets" behind you, one can do lots of shinola. I do agree "mix" is not the right word but one can change "perspectives" and divert attention elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 There a couple of titles in this series that I don't have in any form yet, so I might check them out. Any hope they can show up at yourmusic.com? Out There is one title I'm tempted by, but I have to ask: how unberable is the cello? I've heard very bad things. I hate to sound picky, put I've had some problems with Ron Carter before, so this is making me hesitate. Thanks, Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Out There is one title I'm tempted by, but I have to ask: how unberable is the cello? That depends on how much you like the cello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Out There is one title I'm tempted by, but I have to ask: how unberable is the cello? That depends on how much you like the cello There's always room for cello! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 There a couple of titles in this series that I don't have in any form yet, so I might check them out. Any hope they can show up at yourmusic.com? I'm pessimistic. I don't think any Fantasy titles have been added to the BMG/YM list since Concord took over the company. I believe the last were the Prestige Best of titles which came out very shortly before the sale of the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Mike, cool, good deal at Waterloo. I don't often get over to Waterloo. . . and things aren't usually that cheap. (I hate the way they have that store set up too). I would have saved about a dollar twenty in comparison to the cduniverse order. I can live with that! That Hawkins is such a great session! I have it but want the RVG sound on that and the Dorham. Yeah, Lon I don't know what happened...Waterloo is usually FULL retail price on everything it seems. And I agree, I HATE the way Waterloo is set up with no sections. There' no browsing there unless you want to look through every genre of music. They're kind of on their high horse over there anyway. Everyone that works there hates customers, they all seem to be missing band practice during their shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 ...I have to ask: how unberable is the cello? It was years since I listened to this album. Unfortunately, from what I can remember the cello is unbearable. There was a thread about this on the BNBB, but I could always say it again: When Ron Carter is playing the cello I can hardly understand anything of what he's doing. Now, when he plays the piccolo bass, that's a completely different matter...(cough)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Okay, I did a side-by-side comparison of "The Hawk Relaxes" this evening, the original OJC issue (mastered in 1991 by Phil De Lancie) and the new RVG. There are quite a few noticeable differences between the two. 1. The OJC was hard panned: Hawkins all the way on one side, Kenny Burrell on the other, etc. The RVG has been narrowed to around 10 o'clock/2 o'clock, I actually prefer this, the crazy stereo panning in the late 50's drives me bats...especially when there's only 1 horn player. For those still scarred by the whole JRVG thing...don't worry, they are not "almost mono". 2. The OJC had a TON of reverb on it (I'd guess that was done for the original vinyl master), the RVG is considerably drier by comparison. The sound of Hawkins' sax is much warmer, the original OJC sounded distant, while this new remaster is very "in your face". The rhythm section is also more distinct (you can actually hear the bass) even though they are still relatively low in the mix. 3. There is ALOT of tape noise! Part of that is in the remastering with the noise floor being more audible...but it really makes me wonder if they didn't CEDAR the older CD issue of this. It's not so bad as to be distracting and I'll trade more tape hiss for better tonal representation of the instruments any day. There are also a few places where tape degradation is audible. Overall it's definitely an improvement in my opinion. A couple noticeable moments: Check out the drum sound during the exchanges in Moonglow, they really "pop". The blend of sound between Hawkins & Burrell on Just A Gigolo is really stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Okay, I did a side-by-side comparison of "The Hawk Relaxes" this evening, the original OJC issue (mastered in 1991 by Phil De Lancie) and the new RVG. There are quite a few noticeable differences between the two. 1. The OJC was hard panned: Hawkins all the way on one side, Kenny Burrell on the other, etc. The RVG has been narrowed to around 10 o'clock/2 o'clock, I actually prefer this, the crazy stereo panning in the late 50's drives me bats...especially when there's only 1 horn player. For those still scarred by the whole JRVG thing...don't worry, they are not "almost mono". 2. The OJC had a TON of reverb on it (I'd guess that was done for the original vinyl master), the RVG is considerably drier by comparison. The sound of Hawkins' sax is much warmer, the original OJC sounded distant, while this new remaster is very "in your face". The rhythm section is also more distinct (you can actually hear the bass) even though they are still relatively low in the mix. 3. There is ALOT of tape noise! Part of that is in the remastering with the noise floor being more audible...but it really makes me wonder if they didn't CEDAR the older CD issue of this. It's not so bad as to be distracting and I'll trade more tape hiss for better tonal representation of the instruments any day. There are also a few places where tape degradation is audible. Overall it's definitely an improvement in my opinion. A couple noticeable moments: Check out the drum sound during the exchanges in Moonglow, they really "pop". The blend of sound between Hawkins & Burrell on Just A Gigolo is really stunning. That's really helpful and interesting, Shawn. Thanks. But which one had a lot of tape noise? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 The RVG has more tape noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 The RVG has more tape noise. Thanks. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 ...I have to ask: how unberable is the cello? It was years since I listened to this album. Unfortunately, from what I can remember the cello is unbearable. There was a thread about this on the BNBB, but I could always say it again: When Ron Carter is playing the cello I can hardly understand anything of what he's doing. Ron Carter's cello playing is indescribable, and not in a positive way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Not wishing to upscale on the ones I had, I'm getting the one I don't: Hawk and well, maybe the Burrell Coltrane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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